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One way to hopefully reduce school shootings

Gene LGene L Senior MemberPosts: 11,738 Senior Member
Lock the damn classroom doors.  So no weirdo can get access.  Of course, monitor the access points where kids come to school.  A metal detector.  I'm not in favor of arming teachers, since I don't know many teachers I'd trust with a gun, and training them with a gun is expensive and likely would not be necessary if someone was at the front door or locked the classroom doors in a reasonable time.  When I was going to school, you had to be in class when the bell rang.
Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
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Replies

  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 2,120 Senior Member
    Locking the door doesn't do much good when the bad guy shoots his way in.  I am in favor of arming teachers who are willing to get the training, but then my wife is a teacher and has a concealed weapon license, so I have a different perspective than you do.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    Lock the doors, arm the teachers, hire more cops, install surveillance............
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    I'm not in favor of arming teachers, since I don't know many teachers I'd trust with a gun, and training them with a gun is expensive and likely would not be necessary if someone was at the front door or locked the classroom doors in a reasonable time. 

    I agree to an extent as I know a couple of teachers that were former LEO's and there's quite a few of them that I wouldn't trust with a gun. Most of the LEO's my age or older only seem to practice with their weapons when they have to qualify annually to quarterly where most of the younger LEO's seem to have a greater interest in being proficient with the tools of their trade.
     Also if you've kept up with the debate, it wasn't about taking untrained teachers and forcibly making them take a course and carry a gun. It's about taking teachers that are already qualified and proficient with firearms and allowing them to carry a firearm.


    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    There is no “One Way” that will reduce school shootings. 

    It will I’ll take a conglomeration of steps and measures. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,150 Senior Member
    Lock the doors and the evil will do something that will circumvent it.  

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

    Attacking schools is is nothing new.  The Bath Massacre happened almost 100 years ago, and shooting schools in Israel has been happening for as long as Israel has been Israel.  It’s happening less now in the US than it was 20 years ago.  It’s just now getting more attention from those that dance in the blood of the fallen, and want to use it as a tool to achieve the goal of disarming us.

     Safety rules won’t allow you to lock the doors of an occupied classroom anyway.  Can’t have the kids trapped in if there is a fire.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 2,293 Senior Member
    Our classrooms are required.to be locked. To leave the room you only have to turn the knob. 
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,920 Senior Member
    edited May 2018 #8
    Lock the doors and the evil will do something that will circumvent it.  

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

    Attacking schools is is nothing new.  The Bath Massacre happened almost 100 years ago, and shooting schools in Israel has been happening for as long as Israel has been Israel.  It’s happening less now in the US than it was 20 years ago.  It’s just now getting more attention from those that dance in the blood of the fallen, and want to use it as a tool to achieve the goal of disarming us.

     Safety rules won’t allow you to lock the doors of an occupied classroom anyway.  Can’t have the kids trapped in if there is a fire.
    Actually, you can secure the doors against entry but not in such a way to impede exit....


    Bath was a number of firsts in this country...
    The first mass school massacre
    The first car bomb.  (Previously the last VBIED was a wagon drawn by a team of mules)
    The first suicide bomber

    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    Lock the damn classroom doors.  So no weirdo can get access.  Of course, monitor the access points where kids come to school.  A metal detector.  I'm not in favor of arming teachers, since I don't know many teachers I'd trust with a gun, and training them with a gun is expensive and likely would not be necessary if someone was at the front door or locked the classroom doors in a reasonable time.  When I was going to school, you had to be in class when the bell rang.
    What if the bad guy is already inside when you lock the door. Then help can't come in and you're locked in with a madman. Like the trainer locking himself in a tiger's case, With the Tiger!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,738 Senior Member
    That hasn't been the case, so far.  Up to this point, it's an intruder...a former student, a complete stranger, etc.  If you have armed security in-and-out can mitigate that.  No, there are no ways you can stop EVERY single instance, but you can reduce the odds.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,920 Senior Member
    snake284 said:
    Gene L said:
    Lock the damn classroom doors.  So no weirdo can get access.  Of course, monitor the access points where kids come to school.  A metal detector.  I'm not in favor of arming teachers, since I don't know many teachers I'd trust with a gun, and training them with a gun is expensive and likely would not be necessary if someone was at the front door or locked the classroom doors in a reasonable time.  When I was going to school, you had to be in class when the bell rang.
    What if the bad guy is already inside when you lock the door. Then help can't come in and you're locked in with a madman. Like the trainer locking himself in a tiger's case, With the Tiger!
    A well equipped entry team can deal with locked doors in short order.
    Even in the most recent shooting, the shooter left the room to arm himself, then came back.

    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,738 Senior Member
    Metal detectors.  A whole lot of these shootings are so the shooter can get social recognition.  Sad state of affairs, and whetted by all the press these shooters get.  Better to be hated than ignored.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,920 Senior Member
    One controlled entrance to the facility...everyone had a card key to open the exterior door, everyone goes through a magnetometer...bags are visually searched or x-rayed. ( This is exactly the procedure we used to get into work every day)
    All other doors are secured against entry (not exit) and alarmed with an audible door alarm and through the buildings alarm system.

    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 1,057 Senior Member
    Only issue I see with metal detectors, scans, etc.. is that it would take 4 hours for a school load of kids to even get in the building in the morning.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,920 Senior Member
    We had 2000+ employees that got to work on time every morning...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    One controlled entrance to the facility...everyone had a card key to open the exterior door, everyone goes through a magnetometer...bags are visually searched or x-rayed. ( This is exactly the procedure we used to get into work every day)
    All other doors are secured against entry (not exit) and alarmed with an audible door alarm and through the buildings alarm system.

    Just like the court house.
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 1,057 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    We had 2000+ employees that got to work on time every morning...
    All entering at the same time?
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,150 Senior Member
    All you would achieve by doing a “one entrance with metal detectors” is move the site of the next shooting to the security line. The next shooter would kill a LOT more by having everyone concentrated in one easy to shoot line-up


    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,738 Senior Member
    I believe all the nay-sayers can't look beyond what could happen rather than what has happened.  By denying solutions, you make the no guns, never argument on the left seem more valid. Something has to be done and the solution isn't banning and confiscating guns, which ain't gonna happen so long as we solve the problem. I mean we've sent missions to Mars, landed a man on the moon.  There is no problem we can't solve, we just have to look at solutions.  We know the problem.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    edited May 2018 #20
    Arm a handful of teachers who are mothers, fathers, grandfathers, grand mothers who are dedicated to the safety of the kids, and put up signs and let it be known that any teacher might be armed and trained. Do it with a very well thought out plan, with lots of training and testing by experienced instructors. Encourage teachers who don't want to do it to play along, so that they don't give it away. Teachers thrive on intrigue. This, alone, will dissuade a glory-seeking coward who doesn't want to be stopped by someone's grandmother, who might end up being the hero, instead of him. Mark a hiking trail around the perimeter of the school and encourage parents and grandparents to patrol it in the greatest possible numbers. I guarantee that some old bitties will report any strangers or sneaky looking persons in numbers that will give the local police heartburn. Turn it into a community project.

    For those few who are a bit more 'hard core,' yes, some teachers may die, but they are dying anyway, and doing it bare-handed. Use the bulk of whatever money has been appropriated to harden the site, with safe rooms and detection equipment, and as many armed guards as you can afford, if good ones can be found.

    This would work in my community, and the schools my grand kids attend. I can't say about others. But I do know that anything that works will be the result of a community effort - not a bunch of know-it-all jerks in Washington, D.C.
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 2,293 Senior Member
    Last I heard my district is installing electronic locks and video cameras on every outside door on all buildings for around $10k. I was VERY surprised it wasn't more expensive.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    Be great to have local contractors do wanted work to harden the schools, supply the work at a discount and get a big plug from the local news and associated tv stations.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    Question:

    If the classroom doors are to be locked, are they automatically locked on closing or manually locked at the beginning of class?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 2,293 Senior Member
    With ours it's done with our key. Unlock the door by turning the key to the left. Open the door then turn the key to the right locking the outside knob. The inside knob will still open the door if the outside knob is locked.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,920 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Question:

    If the classroom doors are to be locked, are they automatically locked on closing or manually locked at the beginning of class?
    If it were me putting this thing together, I would have card readers on the class room doors....that way the door locks automatically AND you have some basic accountability....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,738 Senior Member
    As mentioned, you only need the doors to lock from the outside, not from the inside.  In case of a fire drill, or a real fire, or some other reason to evacuate.  Need good guys with guns inside, of course.   Hall monitors, NO one should be in the hallways during class hours.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,625 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    As mentioned, you only need the doors to lock from the outside, not from the inside.  In case of a fire drill, or a real fire, or some other reason to evacuate.  Need good guys with guns inside, of course.   Hall monitors, NO one should be in the hallways during class hours.
    Until you have to pee, poop, vomit, go to a Dr.'s appointment, have your dad spring you to go fish or hunt, leave for a sanctioned sporting event, etc., etc.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Kids deserve the same level of security as judges, politicians, sporting events and concerts. For the price of one or two F-35s every school could be hardened to avoid the majority of these incidents.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    I am all-in for arming teachers, substitute teachers, administrators, cafeteria staff, bus drivers, crossing guards, and janitors, as long as they take and pass a special course approved by the school district or state legislature, and re-qualify regularly. I'm sure the NRA would have qualified instructors in every hamlet in the country in no time at all. 

    The cost of the special course, if there is any, would be born by the applicant, as well as the cost of the firearm, holster, and ammunition. There is no reason for the school district to pay for any of this, as the administrators, teachers and staff that believe in it will come up with the money. I know if I were a teacher and I was given the option of training and carrying, I would happily get out my checkbook and git 'er done. 
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,738 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Gene L said:
    As mentioned, you only need the doors to lock from the outside, not from the inside.  In case of a fire drill, or a real fire, or some other reason to evacuate.  Need good guys with guns inside, of course.   Hall monitors, NO one should be in the hallways during class hours.
    Until you have to pee, poop, vomit, go to a Dr.'s appointment, have your dad spring you to go fish or hunt, leave for a sanctioned sporting event, etc., etc.
    In such a case, one would still have to be let out and would still NOT have access back in, unless opened by a teacher.  Hall passes would cover that.

    I can't go along with those who throw up their hands in surrender in the face of what actually happened.  No shootings occurred by someone who was embedded in the school with weapons.  Shooters, for the most part, came from outside the system and all this worry about an armed student or someone wandering the hallways to poop or go fishing are unfounded.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,738 Senior Member
    The answer is simple...don''t allow unauthorized people in schools with guns.  End of problem.  How to achieve this isn't all that complex.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
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