308 Win AR build - thoughts

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Replies

  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,051 Senior Member
    I might have been ruined on A2 style guns at a young age.  The first AR I every fired was a fixed stock, fixed carry handle Colt.  The guy had a scope mounted on top of the carry handle.  Between the strangeness of having a scope that high above the stock and the "srpong" sound in the stock, I just wasn't really impressed.  The first time I fired an M4 style gun with adjustable stock and holographic sight, I thought "That's much better than that other contraption!"  From then on, I've stuck with what I like.  That being said, I'm strongly leaning toward a fixed stock on this build. I do like the looks of it and it makes sense that it would function better at the range and in the field.  Provided I can keep that hollow stock, buffer spring noise out of it...  I know it doesn't make a difference in function at all.  It's just a preference.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,051 Senior Member
    Besides, if I went fixed stock and decided it's not for me, I can always take it off and install a new buffer tube and stock.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,558 Senior Member
    I can't seem to post a response to CPJ. It won't "take."
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,940 Senior Member
    horselips said:
    I can't seem to post a response to CPJ. It won't "take."
    I’ll save you the typing. 



    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,558 Senior Member
    I watch Gunbroker auctions all the time. I've seen DPMS .308 Oracles sold in the fives. The accuracy comment for LR308 models I got from American Rifleman. They got groups as small as .68 inch. 
    Google the test for the whole story

    If you simply must spend more money, consider the G II model. NRA testers achieved groups as small as .30"
    Averages were a little larger -.47" for 3 groups, and .8" for 9 groups, but to get sub half-minute of angle accuracy from an out-of-the-box rifle shooting off-the-shelf factory ammunition is impressive. Gunbroker has these with starting bids as low as $850. Expect them to close around $1200-ish, a bargain for that kind of performance. Go to Gunbroker and shop till you drop. 

    I've read lots of tests of rifles costing much more from many manufacturers, that don't perform nearly as well. I would imagine that even the most conscientious home builder, using the best components would have a tough time beating sub-half-minute accuracy with factory ammo. I've never built any guns myself, but it seems quite a hassle for uncertain, unpredictable results when the sure thing is available at such reasonable cost. And it comes with a warranty.

    But then, I have drawn the plans for 2 houses, 3 restaurants, and 2 retail stores I've owned and operated over the decades of my working life. It is a real thrill to see the builders create the reality exactly as you imagined it in your mind's eye. Perhaps building your own AR10 might be just as fun and rewarding. 




  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 5,993 Senior Member
    edited June 12 #37
    Jay. I have two of the LuthAR fixed stocks without the adjustable cheek pieces. I really enjoy using them. The flat at the back is plenty long to get on a rear bag, although it is rather narrow. The stocks come with two, maybe more (I am not going to look now), spots for QD sling mounts. 

    That platform definitely needs an adjustable gas block, my LR308 will digest any .308 Winchester ammo now. Before the only ammo it would run without double feeds was 7.62 NATO pressure. 

    Horse, I chose the components of my LR 308 and assembled it myself. Upper and lower. The only assembly related problem I have had was installing the gas tube upside down the first time. My rifles upper is DPMS parts, just not a catalog option (for an assembled upper) when I bought them. It shoots sub 1/2 MOA with Federal American Eagle 7.62 NATO 168gr OTM. At least when the trigger nut is tight.

    Maybe for you the Oracle is the right option. For lots of other folks that rifle doesn’t have the parts that we want. Crap trigger, uncomfortable adjustable stock, short crappy hand guard, non adjustable gas block.
    Why pay for parts you don’t want? Did you select a bog standard building, have it built and then remodel half of it to get what you wanted? 
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,051 Senior Member

    Thanks for the input on those stocks.  Just looking at the pic, the one I liked to appeared to have some potential.  But then, that's just pics on the internet.  Guess I have about a month or so to decide which way it'll go.  If I made my mind up right now, it's bound to change tomorrow anyway.

    I agree with you on building rather than buying.  Nothing wrong with buying one of the rack, if that's what someone wants.  But to buy one off the rack that had the features and parts I want, it would end up being as much as I'll spend building one.  Especially when you consider that around $400 out of my $1500 budget is for the optic and mount alone.  That leaves $1100 for the rifle.  I don't consider that too bad for a decent, complete gun with an adjustable gas block, free float handguard and not built with really cheap parts.  The only upgrades it'll get after the build will be a trigger and possibly a brake.

  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,558 Senior Member
    I watch Gunbroker auctions all the time. I've seen .308 DPMS Oracles sold for in the fives. The accuracy comment comes from American Rifleman testing - they got groups as small as .68". 
    https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2009/5/19/dpms-panther-arms-ap4-lr-308/

    If you simply must spend more money, consider the Gen II AR from DPMS. I quote from the NRA testers,"With the Black Hills 168-gr. load, the first group measured 0.30". That was the best, but the average of three groups was 0.47". The average for all nine groups was 0.80". From an out-of-the-box AR-L shooting factory ammunition, that is very impressive accuracy." Gunbroker has these with a starting bid at $850. I would expect that to close at around $1200-ish. Still, for .30" accuracy, a very good deal. 
    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/770380062

    I've read lots of tests of much more expensive AR10 platforms from a lot of other manufacturers, and seldom do any shoot this well. Under half-minute of angle, way under, is tough to beat by any home-built parts gun.
    I've never built any guns myself, but it seems to me to be quite a hassle for uncertain, unpredictable results, when the sure thing is available for such reasonable moolah. 

    I'm a floor plan freak. I've drawn my own plans for everything from tombs to yachts. I've had the thrill of seeing 2 houses, 3 restaurants and 2 retail stores built to my designs (all residences and businesses I've owned over the years). You ought to see the plans I have iBuilding your own AR10 just might be as much fun, and rewarding enough to overlook any potential performance issues, which may or may not even occur. 

  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,051 Senior Member

    Optic and mount for this build has been ordered.

    https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-strike-eagle-scope-1-6x24-ar-bdc-reticle.html?_iv_code=VX-RS-SE-1624-1-SE-1624-1-KIT1

    Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x24 with one of their cantilever mounts.

    It'll be about a month from now before I plan to have the rest of the stuff to build the gun.

  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 7,870 Senior Member
    I like that scope a lot.  Great choice
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,051 Senior Member
    Thanks. After doing a little research and shopping it seems like a pretty decent scope for the money. For $369 with mount and free 2 day shipping, I’ll take a shot with it. Having 1x on the bottom end should work well for fast sight pictures at closer range. And 6x should be plenty of zoom for what I want to do. And the bdc reticle can be used with the 308 cartridge once I have settled on a load, get ballistics info and do some math and stuff to get the yardage values and confirm them. Thats the thought process, anyway. 
  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 1,724 Senior Member
    Put that scope on a 223 I built a while back - really like it.

    http://forums.gunsandammo.com/discussion/35035/new-ar-build#latest


  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,051 Senior Member
    JKP said:
    Put that scope on a 223 I built a while back - really like it.

    http://forums.gunsandammo.com/discussion/35035/new-ar-build#latest



    Nice.  Guess I missed your thread on that one.  I also had a concern about the 1/2 MOA adjustment on this scope.  Hopefully It'll work fine for me.


    It looks like I have a trigger for this build now.  Turned out my buddy who I thought had a Geissele trigger he said he didn't need no has a use for that trigger.  But he did say he has a brand new Larue MBT trigger he doesn't need.  $40.  Told him I'll take it.  That will give me something to start with.

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,439 Senior Member
    👍🏻
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,051 Senior Member
    My mind is starting to stray... put me back in check or enable. Whichever comes first. 

    So, a jacka..., I mean buddy at work brought to my attention an AR in 6x45 on GB. Starting bid $650. It’s already listed for a week and got no bids. Back up again for the same starting bid. Comes with assorted bullets, reloading dies and a few other things. It’s wearing a cheaply 6-24x scope. I’ve been wanting an AR in 6x45 for a while. Since Midway discontinued the affordable barrels in that clambering, I haven’t been moving forward with that build. 

    Now, $650 isn’t bad for a gun, dies and misc other pieces. However, I happen to dislike the handguard, stock and grip on it and that scope can’t stay. So, $650 plus. Easily over $500 to make it “right.”  That will push this LR308 project back by at least a month. 

    Talk me me out of it. Or into it. If you have  mind to do so...
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,051 Senior Member
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,439 Senior Member
    Focus. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,051 Senior Member
    Ughhh. After looking again at that link, never mind. That thing seems to be built with some pretty cheap stuff. To spend at least $1100 total to make it right, I just can’t  see it. 

    SQUIRREL! 

    Back to the 308 build. I have acquired a stock, buffer tube, spring and buffer, LaRue Tactical MBT trigger and some new Winchester brass that has been run through a Redding neck sizer and primed with Federal 210 match primers. In the next couple of weeks, the rest should be on the way. If I can stay focused...

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,439 Senior Member
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,051 Senior Member
    Well, a French model has to listen to his manager... 
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,200 Senior Member
    edited July 13 #52


    Talk me me out of it. Or into it. If you have  mind to do so...

    That looks like a badly accessorized home built AR with everything you don't want. Listen to Z....FOCUS!
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 5,993 Senior Member
    Michakav said:


    Talk me me out of it. Or into it. If you have  mind to do so...

    That looks like a badly accessorized home built AR with everything you don't want. Listen to Z....FOCUS!
    This. 

    What stock did you decide on? 
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,051 Senior Member
    Michakav said:


    Talk me me out of it. Or into it. If you have  mind to do so...

    That looks like a badly accessorized home built AR with everything you don't want. Listen to Z....FOCUS!
    This. 

    What stock did you decide on? 
    Yeah.  I had a moment of temporary weakness.  I've been guided back on track...

    DPMS A2 stock
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,051 Senior Member

    So, just to keep track of the parts acquisition process and see how it's coming along, here's what I have so far.

    Aero Precision lower receiver

    DPMS A2 stock

    AR Stoner "Extreme Duty" buffer tube, spring and buffer

    AR Stoner muzzle brake

    Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x24 scope with cantilever mount

    LaRue Tactical MBT trigger (2.5lb first stage, 2lb second)

    Lee Factory Crimp die - 308 Win.

    A2 buffer tube spacer and screw ordered and on the way.  The stock and buffer setup I ordered did not include the mounting hardware.  With the stock and buffer tube installed, there is about a 1" gap between the back of the buffer tube and the stock.  The spacer fills that gap.

    As mentioned previous, also got 50 pieces of new bras prepped and primed to load.  I'll be going to Cabelas this weekend to spend a gift card I have, which will include picking up a couple of Pmags for this gun.  The rest of the gun will be ordered in 2 weeks.  Completion should be around first week of August.  If nothing unforeseen happens between now and then...

  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 7,870 Senior Member
    Sounds like the makings of a solid gun. Do you plan to build an upper or get one already completed?
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,051 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Sounds like the makings of a solid gun. Do you plan to build an upper or get one already completed?
    I’m ordering all the parts as an unassembled kit. Just easier and generally cheaper. I have the tools to build everything up from there. 

    https://www.groundzeroprecision.com/collections/ar-10-lr-308-build-it-yourself-project-kits/products/diy-16-socom-dpms-profile-ar-308-project-kit-with-adjustable-gas-1pg16308a-free-shipping?variant=25483352647

    I won’t use all the parts from this kit. Fire control group, buffer assembly, grip, etc, will be substituted. So, I’ll have spare parts for the next build...
  • Jeff in TXJeff in TX Senior Member Posts: 1,253 Senior Member
    I have to agree with others I'd go with a 16" barrel light contour barrel.  Out to 600 yards a 16" barrel will work great.  
    My advice having gone this route twice, try to cut weight where you can on the build, every ounce counts as we say!  Every component i.e. barrel, hand guard, rear stock, sling, mag size, rails, bi-pod, scope, scope mounts and any additional add on's add weight and it adds up quickly!  

    I've had two AR-10's in the past in .308.  Both incredible shooters and yet total disasters at the same time.  My first was a DPMS 24" bull barrel that out shot my GA Precision bolt action tactical rifle hands down.  It shot in the .3's and .4's and never once had an issue with it.  Once scoped it was an absolute beast to lug around on hunts.  I once put my suppressor on it for a hog hunt at night on a buddies ranch.  We put in four miles that night.  My buddy and I still joke but at one point as we were walking I said "I'll give you $10 grand to carry this beast"!  Way too heavy and unbalanced with almost a 33" broom stick with suppressor on it.

    My next one was an 18" lighter contour barrel, I tried to cut weight and did a lot better job over my DPMS.  It was still a beast to lug around on stalks and hunts where I walked a lot.  Again way to unbalanced once I put the suppressor on.  I think I kept that rifle a couple months.

    I've gone back to bolt guns, less fuss, light weight and very balanced.

    Best of luck on your build, can't wait to see the new build and hear how it performs.  
    Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!

    John 3: 1-21
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,439 Senior Member
    Can’t wait to see it finished. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,379 Senior Member
    edited July 14 #60
    Wait! You're going too fast! 
    This stock.  I love mine, especially for $69.  Magpul fixed. 
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,470 Senior Member
    I had that very same stock on my AR-10 and pulled it off after a few months and replaced it with a Magpul PRS.  It just looked goofy and never did quite fit me correctly, whereas the PRS is just ever so nice.  It is heavy, though.
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