The A's, B's and C's of Handgun Calibers

iklwaiklwa Posts: 3 New Member

 It has been proposed that if “A is equal to B, and B is equal to C, then C must be equal to A”


It has also been learned that the handgun is not the best tool for self-defense. A rifle or shotgun are much more effective; hence, we have soldiers issued rifles and only officers and/or specialized troops are issued handguns.

The Sherriff was asked by a woman, “Sherriff, why are you wearing your pistol to this council meeting? Are you expecting trouble?

The Sherriff responded, “No Ma’am, I am not expecting trouble. If I were, I would have brought my rifle.”

I have also heard it stated, “I carry a handgun, so I can fight my way back to my rifle.”


The reality of life dictates that in most self-defense situations the handgun and not the rifle or shotgun will be the tool used in 90% of self-defense scenarios. This is because most folks are unable to carry a long gun while performing their daily duties and the handgun is so portable.

History has also repeatedly proven the relative ineffectiveness of small diameter/light recoiling handgun calibers. A caliber is referenced by the number of thousandths of an inch the bore or projectile (bullet) is in diameter (i.e. “50 caliber” is .50 inches). Generally speaking, the larger the projectile, the heavier the projectile and the greater the “punch” delivered by the bullet.

The United States became involved with the Moro Insurrection beginning in 1899. We had just adopted the 38 caliber New Army Long Colt cartage and Smith and Wesson revolver as issued equipment. It was soon discovered that the new cartridge, even after delivering multiple hits, was unable to stop the determined and narcotic filled Moro warriors. They continued to kill US soldiers with short swords and spears even after being struck repeatedly in the torso. This was when a desperate plea went out to the United States Ordinance Department to reissue the venerable 45 Long Colt to provide that needed one-shot-stop. The 45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) cartridge and Browning’s Model 1911 pistol were direct results of this hard-won knowledge.


Back to my original statement regarding A’s, B’s and C’s.

Current talk about calibers and platforms has come full circle and once again we see numerous articles circulating in the firearm’s press that with new projectile developments, the 9mm Luger cartridge is the ballistic equivalent to the 45ACP. We also see articles in those same publications stating that the newest 380ACP (9mm Kurz or Short) ammunition is ballistically equivalent to the 9mm Luger.


Using logical extrapolation based on the expressed equation above, we could then logically assume the 9mm Short is the ballistic equivalent of the 45 ACP!

Two things that immediately come to mind:

1.     If the newest generation of ammunition is all that good and/or improved, one can only imagine the improved performance of the 45 ACP using these technologies.

2.     It would seem to me highly irresponsible to preach this specious theory of equivalence to the beginning shooter interested in self-defense. Imagine the disappointment of our Nimrod, attempting to repel the attack of a large bad guy only to find he has merely aggravated his attacker!

It would seem that in firearms, just like politics and journalism, every generation forgets the lessons learned from the previous generation and then makes the same mistakes as their grandparents.

Communism does not work.

Small caliber/light recoiling handgun calibers are unreliable man-stoppers.

 

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Replies

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 17,955 Senior Member
    Okay...

    I'll confess I've often thought of point #1, above...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 2,474 Senior Member
    A bigger hole is a bigger hole.

    Usually there are more considerations than just making a bigger hole when deciding on a handgun. Fit, ease of use, capacity, cost, durability, reliability, etc...

    Shot placement, and weapon access can't be over looked.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 1,617 Senior Member
    edited June 14 #4
    I feel all enlightened and fuzzy inside. Like when I was 9. o:)



    It must be the huge fonts.

    Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy and Pride... That's why I don't have a career in politics.
  • iklwaiklwa Posts: 3 New Member
    Sorry Spk...that's how it came out when transferring from my Word program. I use large fonts because of poor vision (less squinting).
    PS
    Criticizing the font size does nothing to add to the conversation.
    Feel free to try again.
    I
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,259 Senior Member
    Well, umm, thanks for the lecture?  
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 2,474 Senior Member
    The important thing here is to go check the gun and knife thread to see what knife best goes with a 45.

    Unless of course someone convinces you that 9mm is better. Than your knife choice may change.

    🔫🔪
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,207 Senior Member
    My only comment is, If A=B and B=C then A=C hasn't "been proposed". That, is an accepted mathematical RULE
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,610 Senior Member
    Who cares what he thinks. 
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,504 Senior Member
    Welcome aboard
    This message has been deleted
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 39,174 Senior Member
    edited June 15 #11
    Finally! Some new and refreshing here! Something that’s not
    been hashed out repeatedly! 
    The ones who say the 9mm is
    equal to the .45 ACP are the same ones who say things like “it’s not the size of the boat, it’s the motion in the ocean.” Or, “it don’t take a long hose to put out a fire.” 
    You know, trying to make up for “shortcomings.”

    Long live the 45! John Brownings masterpiece! The cartridge that can stop man and horse equally! 
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,450 Senior Member
    I got a 10mm.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,791 Senior Member
    The important thing here is to go check the gun and knife thread to see what knife best goes with a 45.
    What?  You mean there's actual debate on that topic?  I kinda figured there would be universal agreement:


    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,098 Senior Member
    I got a 10mm.
    I hate decisions. I got them all. 

    Except a .380 ACP. I have morals. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 2,474 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    The important thing here is to go check the gun and knife thread to see what knife best goes with a 45.
    What?  You mean there's actual debate on that topic?  I kinda figured there would be universal agreement:


    That's it.
    Case closed.

    Next subject?
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,504 Senior Member
    While a .45 bullet is not going to ever get smaller after hitting someone,
    Zee said:
    I got a 10mm.
    I hate decisions. I got them all. 

    Except a .380 ACP. I have morals. 
    What about a 9mm Makarov?
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,806 Senior Member

    I've got them all except for the 9x18 and the 40.  They're all fine, in a certain situation.  In this current issue of The American Rifleman, the feature the No 1 S&W, which came out for the .22 short black powder.  A lot of these pea-shooters were sold, so I guess tastes change radically.

    I've never thought of cartridges in terms of "best."  Or even "better."  Use what you have, and there are many considerations in what you can carry.

    The first rule in gun fighting is to have a gun.  A .22 in your pocket is far more reliable than a .45 in your safe.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,222 Senior Member
    Like all tools, a handgun's effectiveness depends on the ability of the person operating it. A master mechanic can probably fix a carburetor with a screwdriver and a pair of pliers, if necessary, and an experienced shooter with self-defense skills can probably save his own life with a .22. An inexperienced person can improve their effectiveness slightly with stronger, or more versatile guns, but a lack of ability is still the hardest problem to be overcome.
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,454 Senior Member
    Copy & paste......great invention.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 17,955 Senior Member
    Nuke it from orbit - its the only way to be sure.

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • HappySquidHappySquid Member Posts: 258 Member
    A bigger hole is a bigger hole.

    Usually there are more considerations than just making a bigger hole when deciding on a handgun. Fit, ease of use, capacity, cost, durability, reliability, etc...

    Shot placement, and weapon access can't be over looked.
    Early, can you please keep logic out of this?  It could be entertaining.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 1,617 Senior Member
    edited June 15 #22
    You seem to be under the impression that this is some kind of 9mm apologist forum... you would be wrong.

    We have members that use everything under the sun and the onus of responsibility is on the user to make their preferred choice work for them.

    Thank you for the remedial math lesson in transitive law but this is a Calculus forum.

    Welcome aboard.

    ;)

    Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy and Pride... That's why I don't have a career in politics.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 17,955 Senior Member
    .22s is all that is ever needed - IF you can place it right!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,400 Senior Member
    I've heard that the .410 with copper washed shot is the definitive handgun load for self-defense....that's what I heard, anyway
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,256 Senior Member
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 39,174 Senior Member
    BAMAAK said:
    Well, umm, thanks for the lecture?  
    No, thanks for the copy and pasted lecture. 
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,098 Senior Member
    Oopsie. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,450 Senior Member
    While a .45 bullet is not going to ever get smaller after hitting someone,
    Zee said:
    I got a 10mm.
    I hate decisions. I got them all. 

    Except a .380 ACP. I have morals. 
    What about a 9mm Makarov?
    I don't have a 9mm Makarov either but I do have a .380 (I don't have morals) plus a 9x23 Winchester and a 38 Super. The one thing I do not have right now that I really should (and saying this may get me banned) is a 45acp!
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,400 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Unless Iklwa is the author, Diver is correct.....very poor form to take credit for someone else's writing....and worthy of being deleted for plagiarism....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,256 Senior Member
    While a .45 bullet is not going to ever get smaller after hitting someone,
    Zee said:
    I got a 10mm.
    I hate decisions. I got them all. 

    Except a .380 ACP. I have morals. 
    What about a 9mm Makarov?
    I don't have a 9mm Makarov either but I do have a .380 (I don't have morals) plus a 9x23 Winchester and a 38 Super. The one thing I do not have right now that I really should (and saying this may get me banned) is a 45acp!
    You shouldn't get banned, you have enough others to make up for the shortcoming. 
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • terminator012terminator012 Senior Member Posts: 3,548 Senior Member
    I opened this thread to learn something and I did.
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