10mm TRP

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Replies

  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,940 Senior Member
    Just something that I read in a few places (but don't ask me to quote, I bounce around a LOT when it comes to gun topics) but I'm interested in your guys take on it.  Some folks are reporting better accuracy with the heavier/hotter 10mm loads by switching to heavier recoil springs.  The cause being a slight delay in the slide traveling backwards during recoil makes for a more solid lockup during bullet transit in barrel.  Buffalo Bore actually talks about it on their ammo listings on the Midway site as a way of getting more consistent velocities out of their ammo.  

    Thoughts?


    The action shouldn't be unlocking until long after the bullet leaves the bore anyway.  I could maybe see a little benefit in having tighter lockup, less movement, in some guns.  But with stout loads like Buffalo Bore, I'd think the main benefit would be slowing the slide down so it doesn't beat the gun up so much. Not to say that a stronger recoil spring can't help.  But I don't think delaying the action unlocking should be an issue as, again, the action should not be moving  until the bullet is long gone anyway.

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=pistol+fired+slow+motion&&view=detail&mid=F26172EBA871CA8E4FFCF26172EBA871CA8E4FFC&&FORM=VRDGAR

  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,940 Senior Member
    A gun that is loose to begin with or has a weak recoil spring to start with, I could understand an improvement there.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 17,292 Senior Member
    edited July 5 #34
    For some strange reason, the folks @ Rock Island told me they use, IIRC, an 18# spring in my 5" 10mm.

    I run a heavier spring than that in my Rem 1911 45 (20#)

    I learned that with their FLGR set up, a heavier 1911 spring won't work, so I went with a 24# "Commander" length spring

    (all weights from memory)
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,637 Senior Member
    I had a similar problem trying to find an optimal bullet for my Keltec sub 2000 in .40 S&W because the added barrel length drive the bullets near 10mm velocity.  I settled on 180 gr XTP's.  

    Will be watching this thread!

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • RaptortrapperRaptortrapper Posts: 73 Member
    edited July 6 #36
    Funny you guys brought this up.  I ran across the same article from buffalo bore.  Been thinking about getting a heavier spring.  Don't think I NEED it, but since we are discussing it, I'll get one, then run these same loads through my chronograph. 

    My stock spring is #18.  If I remember right, that BB article talked about a #21.  I will see what I can find for my TRP.  

    We'll right it down and call it science.  Otherwise, it's just screwing around!
    Some people are like a slinky-- not much fun till you push them down the stairs!
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,332 Senior Member
    Exactly!!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,254 Senior Member
    Funny you guys brought this up.  I ran across the same article from buffalo bore.  Been thinking about getting a heavier spring.  Don't think I NEED it, but since we are discussing it, I'll get one, then run these same loads through my chronograph. 

    My stock spring is #18.  If I remember right, that BB article talked about a #21.  I will see what I can find for my TRP.  

    We'll right it down and call it science.  Otherwise, it's just screwing around!
    Great, really looking forward to the results.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,254 Senior Member
    Jay said:
    Just something that I read in a few places (but don't ask me to quote, I bounce around a LOT when it comes to gun topics) but I'm interested in your guys take on it.  Some folks are reporting better accuracy with the heavier/hotter 10mm loads by switching to heavier recoil springs.  The cause being a slight delay in the slide traveling backwards during recoil makes for a more solid lockup during bullet transit in barrel.  Buffalo Bore actually talks about it on their ammo listings on the Midway site as a way of getting more consistent velocities out of their ammo.  

    Thoughts?


    The action shouldn't be unlocking until long after the bullet leaves the bore anyway.  I could maybe see a little benefit in having tighter lockup, less movement, in some guns.  But with stout loads like Buffalo Bore, I'd think the main benefit would be slowing the slide down so it doesn't beat the gun up so much. Not to say that a stronger recoil spring can't help.  But I don't think delaying the action unlocking should be an issue as, again, the action should not be moving  until the bullet is long gone anyway.

    Shouldn’t being the operative way.  A very heavy slug stay in the barrel longer than a light one and a lighter spring will not hold the slide in place as long as a heavier one that starts moving at the peak of pressure.  Like all machines semi-auto pistols are a physics balancing acts and you change one variable enough the rest of the equation goes out of balance.  I don’t think too many 10mm 1911s come out of the factory’s configured for the weight slug and velocity these guys are aiming for.

    I think bigslug wrote some stuff here about tuning the timing of a slide with recoil springs but it was a while back and I’m going from memory.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,940 Senior Member
    I'd be interested to see what comes out of it.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,940 Senior Member
    In this instance, if the goal is 1200fps and it looks like it's 21fps short of the goal with acceptable accuracy, depending on the powder's temperature sensitivity, 21fps could well be within that threshold.  More so than the recoil spring, I would think.  If the load hit 1200fps now, in the middle of January, it might not even be close.  I've also not used Longshot powder, so I'm not sure of it's characteristics. 
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 1,259 Senior Member
    Jay said:
    I'd be interested to see what comes out of it.

    A big flame, a 220gr slug, and all the fun a pair of hands can hold on too😁
  • RaptortrapperRaptortrapper Posts: 73 Member
    edited July 6 #43
    I did a little research, and found that the Colt Delta Elite comes stock with a #23 pound recoil spring.  Not sure why Springfield opted for an 18# spring in the 10mm TRP, but I'm not the design guy either.  I ordered a 23# spring from Midway for this little experiment, and it should be here late next week. 

    I've decided not to touch a thing on my reloading press, and will run my test with the exact same loads I was using earlier.  I'll put the "Accurate 1200+ fps load" search on the back burner till this little experiment is over.  I'm gonna run a series of 18 (2 full magazines) shots on this test so we have a better representation of what is really going on.  18 with the stock spring, and then 18 with the 23# spring.  I'll be checking for accuracy and velocity.  Also curious as to what the standard deviation does.  Any other suggestions or curiosities?  
    Some people are like a slinky-- not much fun till you push them down the stairs!
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,999 Senior Member
    Makes sense to me. I always shoot better with pistol hand loads when using heavy bullets. I've never shot anything but 180 grain FMJ factory loads out of my G-20, but if I was hunting with it, I would definitely try heavy loads with a stronger recoil spring.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,254 Senior Member
    I did a little research, and found that the Colt Delta Elite comes stock with a #23 pound recoil spring.  Not sure why Springfield opted for an 18# spring in the 10mm TRP, but I'm not the design guy either.  I ordered a 23# spring from Midway for this little experiment, and it should be here late next week. 

    I've decided not to touch a thing on my reloading press, and will run my test with the exact same loads I was using earlier.  I'll put the "Accurate 1200+ fps load" search on the back burner till this little experiment is over.  I'm gonna run a series of 18 (2 full magazines) shots on this test so we have a better representation of what is really going on.  18 with the stock spring, and then 18 with the 23# spring.  I'll be checking for accuracy and velocity.  Also curious as to what the standard deviation does.  Any other suggestions or curiosities?  
    Now THAT is how science is done!!!  good job!

    Very interesting on the spring in the Delta.  I think Colt learned a valuable lesson when their frames started cracking on the original ones.  I need to find out what my Razorback came with from the factory.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,254 Senior Member
    From my other thread a good deal on 10mm mags in case anyone needs good ones.

    CDNN is selling stainless Metalform magazines, which are the OEM for Dan Wesson and Colt amongst others, for $14.99.  I have enough mags for my DW (same ones from CDNN) but this is a REALLY good deal for mags that Colt bangs you for over $30 for the Delta Elite

    https://www.cdnnsports.com/1911-8rd-10mm-stainless-magazine-metalform.html#.Wz_DuC2ZNUM
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • RaptortrapperRaptortrapper Posts: 73 Member
    edited July 6 #47
    I did a little research, and found that the Colt Delta Elite comes stock with a #23 pound recoil spring.  Not sure why Springfield opted for an 18# spring in the 10mm TRP, but I'm not the design guy either.  I ordered a 23# spring from Midway for this little experiment, and it should be here late next week. 

    I've decided not to touch a thing on my reloading press, and will run my test with the exact same loads I was using earlier.  I'll put the "Accurate 1200+ fps load" search on the back burner till this little experiment is over.  I'm gonna run a series of 18 (2 full magazines) shots on this test so we have a better representation of what is really going on.  18 with the stock spring, and then 18 with the 23# spring.  I'll be checking for accuracy and velocity.  Also curious as to what the standard deviation does.  Any other suggestions or curiosities?  
    Now THAT is how science is done!!!  good job!

    I have a couple degrees and minors.  All are science fields.  I've done a few experiments in my day. :D
    Some people are like a slinky-- not much fun till you push them down the stairs!
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,651 Senior Member
    So refreshing to see someone who understands how to test something. Just change ONE thing at a time and compare results. 👍👍👍👍👍
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,254 Senior Member
    cpj said:
    So refreshing to see someone who understands how to test something. Just change ONE thing at a time and compare results. 👍👍👍👍👍
    yep, this...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • RaptortrapperRaptortrapper Posts: 73 Member
    edited July 7 #50
    Thanks 
    Some people are like a slinky-- not much fun till you push them down the stairs!
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,999 Senior Member
    cpj said:
    So refreshing to see someone who understands how to test something. Just change ONE thing at a time and compare results. 👍👍👍👍👍
    Yep - I don't know how many times during my hand loading evolution that I have become mired in indecision, due to changing two or three things, and then wondering which things worked. I am a poor scientist - not because I'm especially stupid, but because I am too impatient. Easier access to test-firing facilities would likely cure me of this, but I'm too lazy to drive 15 miles to the shooting range and shoot one or two groups, every time I tweak one of the variables.

    If I am only tweaking the powder charge, I will load six cartridges for each incremental adjustment, and put them in their own zip-lock bag. along with an index card with the load data, and then shoot two 3-shot groups with each. But, then I may decide to change the distance off the lands, or the OAL, or something else, and then I end up out in the weeds, because I have changed too many of the variables.
  • RaptortrapperRaptortrapper Posts: 73 Member
    Well, sorry fellas.  My little experiment has been put on hold.  The local gun range has been closed till further notice due to heat / dry conditions.  Lot of fires around the state, and one was caused by an idiot shooting tracer rounds.  Got all the local ranges shut down because of it. 

    I'll update this thread when I am able to start shooting again.
    Some people are like a slinky-- not much fun till you push them down the stairs!
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 1,259 Senior Member
    That sucks.
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