Need your thoughts on a .458 Win. Mag. M-1 Garand

Jayhawker

First I ever heard of it.....the chamber pressure issue gives me the Willie's

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/07/06/oood-mccann-industries-458-win-mag-garand/

Bigslug

Check the SAAMI pressure specs for .458 and .30-06 - not much difference really, & that isn't the most challenging piece of that puzzle.  There are plenty of aftermarket options now that allow you to adjust gas flow in a Garand to get it in the happy zone.

Jayhawker

I had not done any research beyond the "holy crap!" stage.... It's obviously doable since he did it but I'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole thing....perhaps this would be a good Cpj project...

timc

That would be cool and as said above with gas adjustment you could make it workable without eating itself. I have an adjustable system on my garand for hotter loads that works great.

Tugar

It's actually been around for at least ten years if I remember correctly. If that's the guy, he also does .338 Win mag.

tennmike

The guy that did that also brought out a really good gas adjustment system for the Garand. The Garand rifles he built had that gas adjusting system installed, and he also fitted the rifles with a very efficient muzzle brake. He was a master gunsmith for the company and when he died, that was the end of the .458 Win. Mag. Garand. Quite a few YouTube videos of the rifle being fired.

earlyagain

I've never shot sn M1 Garand. Does the platform offer the same ergonomics as a more modern one? Or is it just a see it can be done type thing?

Freezer

"Garands he built".
 Did he start from scratch milling the receiver or did he start with a military receiver?

Big Al1

When it goes "clang" after the last shot, the elephants will charge!!

Tugar

earlyagain said:

I've never shot sn M1 Garand. Does the platform offer the same ergonomics as a more modern one? Or is it just a see it can be done type thing?

Not sure I understand the question. It's a military style semi-auto battle rifle. I had one that was a parts kit. Decent. Feels like most other large caliber semi-autos to me. 

tennmike

Freezer said:

"Garands he built".
 Did he start from scratch milling the receiver or did he start with a military receiver?

I don't know that. The info is that the company 'manufactured' the M1 Garand in .458 Win. Mag. The manufacturing of the gun died when the gunsmith working for them died. Not much info on the company during that time period. They are still in business, though. Here's the contact info if you're interested in contacting them about those rifles.

https://www.officer.com/home/company/10232030/mccann-industries-llc

Info about the rifle.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/07/06/oood-mccann-industries-458-win-mag-garand/
(There's a short video of a guy firing one. Didn't seem too painful.)

Back in early 2000’s, McCann Industries (known for their M1 Garand Gas Trap Adjuster) manufactured an M1 Garand in .458 Winchester Magnum. Not made anymore after the passing of McCann’s primary gunsmith, the rifles are a fine example of ingenuity and practicality applied to big-game hunting.

At first, I flinched just thinking about it, but the few videos of it shooting shed some light on how this big-game cartridge is tamed. While the base rifle was identical, McCann added an aggressive muzzle brake and a mercury cylinder to the stock to absorb and deflect the recoil.

earlyagain

Would a different gas system offer a more svelte, faster to shoulder and on target rifle? I guess thats what I'm wondering. Its a battle rifle yes, but I doubt many front line soldiers would want to trade their M4s? 

Novelty or maybe more?

horselips

.458 Winchester would be so cool in a Tanker. 

snake284

horselips said:

.458 Winchester would be so cool in a Tanker. 

Yes it would be horselips but me thinks your shoulder might end up in the next zip code.

snake284

Seriously, I think it's a really cool combo but if I was hunting pachyderms or buffalo with it I would definitely want a back up with a double rifle. Regardless of what rifle I had, if I was hunting elephants I'd want to read up on how ol' Karamojo Bell did it with the 7x57. Most people just think he either had balls as big as a house or he was just down right full tilt bozo crazy, but he did a lot of research on elephant anatomy and studied the skulls to find the path of least resistance. Even so he had to be totally cool to take his time to put that bullet in that perfect spot. It is so said he killed over 1,000 elephant with the lowly 7x57. I'd want at least a 460 Wby with a return to battery rest with 500 grain solids and a heaping poo load of powder. Elephants are known to be flattening.

Jayhawker

snake284 said:

horselips said:

.458 Winchester would be so cool in a Tanker. 

Yes it would be horselips but me thinks your shoulder might end up in the next zip code.

Judging from the pictures in the article, that's exactly what the guy built....that, sure as hell isn't a full length Garand...

snake284

earlyagain said:

Would a different gas system offer a more svelte, faster to shoulder and on target rifle? I guess thats what I'm wondering. Its a battle rifle yes, but I doubt many front line soldiers would want to trade their M4s? 

Novelty or maybe more?

  Yeah the Garand is a harty platform and would no doubt handle it, but if I wanted semi auto function I'd me more into something like a 50 Barrett. In 50 cal. Browning.

Freezer

My son has a couple Garands, one was a national match. They are not light rifles coming in over 9 lbs. With a mercury tube added to the stock it would weigh close to 11 lbs. That said it, the mercury tube, the break and a modified gas piston would tame the recoil but I wouldn't want to carry it all day.

MileHighShooter

Many DG rifles weigh around the 10lbs mark, many doubles are heavier.  Just the name of the game.  Big tubes of steel weigh a lot. Also reduces recoil.  But its a bit ironic considering a lot of DG hunting involves a LOT of waking where a lighter rifle would be welcomed. 

This rifle wouldn't be legal in Africa,  however.  It is pure novelty

horselips

Wonder why Browning duzzint chamber their BAR in .458. They've got them in .338 and other Magnums. We went to the moon half a century ago - I'm sure solving any technical issue is within their wheelhouse.

Gene L

My question is "Why?"

Diver43

Gene L said:

My question is "Why?"

Because you can>?

Heck why not? Haven't you seen Jurassic Park?

Bigslug

earlyagain said:

Would a different gas system offer a more svelte, faster to shoulder and on target rifle? I guess thats what I'm wondering. Its a battle rifle yes, but I doubt many front line soldiers would want to trade their M4s? 

Novelty or maybe more?

The only other military autoloading action that would house a .458, I believe, would be the FN-49, which are not nearly as thick on the ground.

 The Garand action and magazine system, with a gas piston system more like an M1 Carbine or M14 would likely tidy and sturdy up the works some.  The sad thing about this whole .458 notion is that it's apparently all but impossible to legally hunt Africa with an autoloader.

Not sure where you're going with the M4 comparison on this thread - we're talking about a round with a payload it takes nine trigger pulls from a 5.56 to equal.  Not for even remotely the same task.

earlyagain

It was the battle rifle reference by Tugar that turned me down that precarious path.

Jayhawker

Bigslug said:

earlyagain said:

Would a different gas system offer a more svelte, faster to shoulder and on target rifle? I guess thats what I'm wondering. Its a battle rifle yes, but I doubt many front line soldiers would want to trade their M4s? 

Novelty or maybe more?

The only other military autoloading action that would house a .458, I believe, would be the FN-49, which are not nearly as thick on the ground.

 The Garand action and magazine system, with a gas piston system more like an M1 Carbine or M14 would likely tidy and sturdy up the works some.  The sad thing about this whole .458 notion is that it's apparently all but impossible to legally hunt Africa with an autoloader.

Not sure where you're going with the M4 comparison on this thread - we're talking about a round with a payload it takes nine trigger pulls from a 5.56 to equal.  Not for even remotely the same task.

But there is all kinds of stuff you could hunt here with it.....

tennmike

Jayhawker said:

Bigslug said:

earlyagain said:

Would a different gas system offer a more svelte, faster to shoulder and on target rifle? I guess thats what I'm wondering. Its a battle rifle yes, but I doubt many front line soldiers would want to trade their M4s? 

Novelty or maybe more?

The only other military autoloading action that would house a .458, I believe, would be the FN-49, which are not nearly as thick on the ground.

 The Garand action and magazine system, with a gas piston system more like an M1 Carbine or M14 would likely tidy and sturdy up the works some.  The sad thing about this whole .458 notion is that it's apparently all but impossible to legally hunt Africa with an autoloader.

Not sure where you're going with the M4 comparison on this thread - we're talking about a round with a payload it takes nine trigger pulls from a 5.56 to equal.  Not for even remotely the same task.

But there is all kinds of stuff you could hunt here with it.....

If an Alaskan Brown Bear was coming at me full tilt, that semi auto .458 Win. Mag. would be the ticket to stop the thing. Bison and elk would also be something to take with it. Put out a hog feed trough in TX where the hogs are thick; get in a hide that is in line with the trough. When the piggies show up and are 'bellied up to the bar', let fly with a few quick shots. Shooting solids, the amount of hogs on the ground would be pretty high.

Tugar

earlyagain said:

Would a different gas system offer a more svelte, faster to shoulder and on target rifle? I guess thats what I'm wondering. Its a battle rifle yes, but I doubt many front line soldiers would want to trade their M4s? 

Novelty or maybe more?

The biggest reason the m4 and M16 are chambered in 5.56 is that the idea of a modern assault rifle isn't to kill outright. It takes soldiers away from the battle when they need to treat their buddies.  The whole idea of a 458 Win mag is dangerous game. Moose, buffalo, grizzly. Things that would laugh off a 5.56. 

I remember one story where the guy hunting a buffalo tried to shoot it in the head with a 45-70. It bounced off. That is a massive skull cap on that animal.

Gene L

Tugar said:

earlyagain said:

Would a different gas system offer a more svelte, faster to shoulder and on target rifle? I guess thats what I'm wondering. Its a battle rifle yes, but I doubt many front line soldiers would want to trade their M4s? 

Novelty or maybe more?

The biggest reason the m4 and M16 are chambered in 5.56 is that the idea of a modern assault rifle isn't to kill outright. It takes soldiers away from the battle when they need to treat their buddies.  The whole idea of a 458 Win mag is dangerous game. Moose, buffalo, grizzly. Things that would laugh off a 5.56. 

I remember one story where the guy hunting a buffalo tried to shoot it in the head with a 45-70. It bounced off. That is a massive skull cap on that animal.

  I've read that but don't ascribe to it.  At least with the idea of the intent to wound; marksmanship teaches to shoot for center of mass, and addition, we've been fighting enemies with very little instituted medical services.  If we were shooting to wound only, we'd be using rubber bullets.

Jayhawker

If you're talking about American Bison it's probably a fairy story...If you're talking about Cape Buffalo...the boss of their horns have turned bullets launched by rifles significantly more powerful than a .45-70. 
As to robust nature of a bison skull.....when we had an injured critter at the refuge, we usually put them down with an AR

snake284

Wambli Ska said:

Jayhawker said:

If you're talking about American Bison it's probably a fairy story...If you're talking about Cape Buffalo...the boss of their horns have turned bullets launched by rifles significantly more powerful than a .45-70. 
As to robust nature of a bison skull.....when we had an injured critter at the refuge, we usually put them down with an AR

My buddy was made fun off when he showed up at a paid group bison hunt with his ooooooold and well used Winchester 70 loaded with military surplus 30-06 FMJs.  Everyone else was carrying .338s and up loaded with premium bullets.  They stitched their bisons with multiple shots to bring them down.  When it was his turn, he quietly put one right through the brain and across the skull and the bull buckled his knees and crumpled DRT...

Oh hell yeah, that's w06hat I'm talkin' about. An .06 with a FMJ is going to penetrate.

snake284

Not me cpj, If they're talking Cape Buffalo, that's the toughest head of them all. I believe that if it isn't a good straight on hit it could very easlily bounce off a thick Cape Buffalo's head.