Need your thoughts on a .458 Win. Mag. M-1 Garand

JayhawkerJayhawker ModeratorPosts: 14,400 Senior Member
First I ever heard of it.....the chamber pressure issue gives me the Willie's
Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
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Replies

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,791 Senior Member
    Check the SAAMI pressure specs for .458 and .30-06 - not much difference really, & that isn't the most challenging piece of that puzzle.  There are plenty of aftermarket options now that allow you to adjust gas flow in a Garand to get it in the happy zone.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,400 Senior Member
    I had not done any research beyond the "holy crap!" stage.... It's obviously doable since he did it but I'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole thing....perhaps this would be a good Cpj project...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,509 Senior Member
    That would be cool and as said above with gas adjustment you could make it workable without eating itself. I have an adjustable system on my garand for hotter loads that works great.
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 39,174 Senior Member
    edited June 30 #5
    It’s intersting because someone took a round what was not meant for a particular gun and made it work. It’s also intersting because it’s goring a sacred cow, even if just a little bit. 
    Not my cup of tea, if I had a rhino gun I’d want it bolt action, or at least one more comfortable than the 2x4 with a trigger that is the M1. 
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 1,745 Senior Member
    It's actually been around for at least ten years if I remember correctly. If that's the guy, he also does .338 Win mag.

    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 24,173 Senior Member
    The guy that did that also brought out a really good gas adjustment system for the Garand. The Garand rifles he built had that gas adjusting system installed, and he also fitted the rifles with a very efficient muzzle brake. He was a master gunsmith for the company and when he died, that was the end of the .458 Win. Mag. Garand. Quite a few YouTube videos of the rifle being fired.
    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 2,474 Senior Member
    I've never shot sn M1 Garand. Does the platform offer the same ergonomics as a more modern one? Or is it just a see it can be done type thing?
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 1,449 Senior Member
    "Garands he built".
     Did he start from scratch milling the receiver or did he start with a military receiver?
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 6,877 Senior Member
    When it goes "clang" after the last shot, the elephants will charge!!
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 1,745 Senior Member
    I've never shot sn M1 Garand. Does the platform offer the same ergonomics as a more modern one? Or is it just a see it can be done type thing?
    Not sure I understand the question. It's a military style semi-auto battle rifle. I had one that was a parts kit. Decent. Feels like most other large caliber semi-autos to me. 
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 24,173 Senior Member
    Freezer said:
    "Garands he built".
     Did he start from scratch milling the receiver or did he start with a military receiver?
    I don't know that. The info is that the company 'manufactured' the M1 Garand in .458 Win. Mag. The manufacturing of the gun died when the gunsmith working for them died. Not much info on the company during that time period. They are still in business, though. Here's the contact info if you're interested in contacting them about those rifles.

    https://www.officer.com/home/company/10232030/mccann-industries-llc

    Info about the rifle.

    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/07/06/oood-mccann-industries-458-win-mag-garand/
    (There's a short video of a guy firing one. Didn't seem too painful.)

    Back in early 2000’s, McCann Industries (known for their M1 Garand Gas Trap Adjuster) manufactured an M1 Garand in .458 Winchester Magnum. Not made anymore after the passing of McCann’s primary gunsmith, the rifles are a fine example of ingenuity and practicality applied to big-game hunting.

    At first, I flinched just thinking about it, but the few videos of it shooting shed some light on how this big-game cartridge is tamed. While the base rifle was identical, McCann added an aggressive muzzle brake and a mercury cylinder to the stock to absorb and deflect the recoil.





    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 2,474 Senior Member
    Would a different gas system offer a more svelte, faster to shoulder and on target rifle? I guess thats what I'm wondering. Its a battle rifle yes, but I doubt many front line soldiers would want to trade their M4s? 

    Novelty or maybe more?
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,610 Senior Member
    .458 Winchester would be so cool in a Tanker. 
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,364 Senior Member
    horselips said:
    .458 Winchester would be so cool in a Tanker. 
    Yes it would be horselips but me thinks your shoulder might end up in the next zip code.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,364 Senior Member
    edited June 30 #16
    Seriously, I think it's a really cool combo but if I was hunting pachyderms or buffalo with it I would definitely want a back up with a double rifle. Regardless of what rifle I had, if I was hunting elephants I'd want to read up on how ol' Karamojo Bell did it with the 7x57. Most people just think he either had balls as big as a house or he was just down right full tilt bozo crazy, but he did a lot of research on elephant anatomy and studied the skulls to find the path of least resistance. Even so he had to be totally cool to take his time to put that bullet in that perfect spot. It is so said he killed over 1,000 elephant with the lowly 7x57. I'd want at least a 460 Wby with a return to battery rest with 500 grain solids and a heaping poo load of powder. Elephants are known to be flattening.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,400 Senior Member
    snake284 said:
    horselips said:
    .458 Winchester would be so cool in a Tanker. 
    Yes it would be horselips but me thinks your shoulder might end up in the next zip code.
    Judging from the pictures in the article, that's exactly what the guy built....that, sure as hell isn't a full length Garand...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,364 Senior Member
    Would a different gas system offer a more svelte, faster to shoulder and on target rifle? I guess thats what I'm wondering. Its a battle rifle yes, but I doubt many front line soldiers would want to trade their M4s? 

    Novelty or maybe more?
      Yeah the Garand is a harty platform and would no doubt handle it, but if I wanted semi auto function I'd me more into something like a 50 Barrett. In 50 cal. Browning.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 1,449 Senior Member
    My son has a couple Garands, one was a national match. They are not light rifles coming in over 9 lbs. With a mercury tube added to the stock it would weigh close to 11 lbs. That said it, the mercury tube, the break and a modified gas piston would tame the recoil but I wouldn't want to carry it all day.
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,742 Senior Member
    Many DG rifles weigh around the 10lbs mark, many doubles are heavier.  Just the name of the game.  Big tubes of steel weigh a lot. Also reduces recoil.  But its a bit ironic considering a lot of DG hunting involves a LOT of waking where a lighter rifle would be welcomed. 

    This rifle wouldn't be legal in Africa,  however.  It is pure novelty
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,610 Senior Member
    Wonder why Browning duzzint chamber their BAR in .458. They've got them in .338 and other Magnums. We went to the moon half a century ago - I'm sure solving any technical issue is within their wheelhouse.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,806 Senior Member
    My question is "Why?"
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,256 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    My question is "Why?"
    Because you can>?

    Heck why not? Haven't you seen Jurassic Park?
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,207 Senior Member
    edited July 2 #24
    I think it's cool that someone thought it up and made it work.

    That's about it. Have no desire or need for one.

    If a 400gr 50 cal Barnes "Buster" solid at around 1700fps from my 'wulf can't handle it...
    I don't plan on messing with it
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,791 Senior Member
    edited July 2 #25
    Would a different gas system offer a more svelte, faster to shoulder and on target rifle? I guess thats what I'm wondering. Its a battle rifle yes, but I doubt many front line soldiers would want to trade their M4s? 

    Novelty or maybe more?
    The only other military autoloading action that would house a .458, I believe, would be the FN-49, which are not nearly as thick on the ground.

     The Garand action and magazine system, with a gas piston system more like an M1 Carbine or M14 would likely tidy and sturdy up the works some.  The sad thing about this whole .458 notion is that it's apparently all but impossible to legally hunt Africa with an autoloader.

    Not sure where you're going with the M4 comparison on this thread - we're talking about a round with a payload it takes nine trigger pulls from a 5.56 to equal.  Not for even remotely the same task.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 2,474 Senior Member
    It was the battle rifle reference by Tugar that turned me down that precarious path.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,400 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    Would a different gas system offer a more svelte, faster to shoulder and on target rifle? I guess thats what I'm wondering. Its a battle rifle yes, but I doubt many front line soldiers would want to trade their M4s? 

    Novelty or maybe more?
    The only other military autoloading action that would house a .458, I believe, would be the FN-49, which are not nearly as thick on the ground.

     The Garand action and magazine system, with a gas piston system more like an M1 Carbine or M14 would likely tidy and sturdy up the works some.  The sad thing about this whole .458 notion is that it's apparently all but impossible to legally hunt Africa with an autoloader.

    Not sure where you're going with the M4 comparison on this thread - we're talking about a round with a payload it takes nine trigger pulls from a 5.56 to equal.  Not for even remotely the same task.
    But there is all kinds of stuff you could hunt here with it.....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 24,173 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    Bigslug said:
    Would a different gas system offer a more svelte, faster to shoulder and on target rifle? I guess thats what I'm wondering. Its a battle rifle yes, but I doubt many front line soldiers would want to trade their M4s? 

    Novelty or maybe more?
    The only other military autoloading action that would house a .458, I believe, would be the FN-49, which are not nearly as thick on the ground.

     The Garand action and magazine system, with a gas piston system more like an M1 Carbine or M14 would likely tidy and sturdy up the works some.  The sad thing about this whole .458 notion is that it's apparently all but impossible to legally hunt Africa with an autoloader.

    Not sure where you're going with the M4 comparison on this thread - we're talking about a round with a payload it takes nine trigger pulls from a 5.56 to equal.  Not for even remotely the same task.
    But there is all kinds of stuff you could hunt here with it.....
    If an Alaskan Brown Bear was coming at me full tilt, that semi auto .458 Win. Mag. would be the ticket to stop the thing. Bison and elk would also be something to take with it. Put out a hog feed trough in TX where the hogs are thick; get in a hide that is in line with the trough. When the piggies show up and are 'bellied up to the bar', let fly with a few quick shots. Shooting solids, the amount of hogs on the ground would be pretty high.
    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 1,745 Senior Member
    Would a different gas system offer a more svelte, faster to shoulder and on target rifle? I guess thats what I'm wondering. Its a battle rifle yes, but I doubt many front line soldiers would want to trade their M4s? 

    Novelty or maybe more?
    The biggest reason the m4 and M16 are chambered in 5.56 is that the idea of a modern assault rifle isn't to kill outright. It takes soldiers away from the battle when they need to treat their buddies.  The whole idea of a 458 Win mag is dangerous game. Moose, buffalo, grizzly. Things that would laugh off a 5.56. 

    I remember one story where the guy hunting a buffalo tried to shoot it in the head with a 45-70. It bounced off. That is a massive skull cap on that animal.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,806 Senior Member
    Tugar said:
    Would a different gas system offer a more svelte, faster to shoulder and on target rifle? I guess thats what I'm wondering. Its a battle rifle yes, but I doubt many front line soldiers would want to trade their M4s? 

    Novelty or maybe more?
    The biggest reason the m4 and M16 are chambered in 5.56 is that the idea of a modern assault rifle isn't to kill outright. It takes soldiers away from the battle when they need to treat their buddies.  The whole idea of a 458 Win mag is dangerous game. Moose, buffalo, grizzly. Things that would laugh off a 5.56. 

    I remember one story where the guy hunting a buffalo tried to shoot it in the head with a 45-70. It bounced off. That is a massive skull cap on that animal.
      I've read that but don't ascribe to it.  At least with the idea of the intent to wound; marksmanship teaches to shoot for center of mass, and addition, we've been fighting enemies with very little instituted medical services.  If we were shooting to wound only, we'd be using rubber bullets.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 39,174 Senior Member
    Tugar said

    I remember one story where the guy hunting a buffalo tried to shoot it in the head with a 45-70. It bounced off. That is a massive skull cap on that animal.
    I call bull ****. 
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
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