Socialism

alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior MemberPosts: 8,261 Senior Member
This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables, thanks to the local police department.

And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM and TAXES are BAD and the government can't do anything right.

Shamelessly stolen from FB. 
"Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
-DoctorWho

Replies

  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,239 Senior Member
    Spoken like a true believer in socialism.

    We had all, or most of these things in the 1950's, but only to the extent that much lower taxes would pay for them. Our Constitution was still mostly intact, and our politicians were only stealing or wasting a fraction of what they dispose of now. Also, we had the shining example of what socialism delivers to the people, once it has spent all of their money - the Soviet Union.

    It wasn't until the last 30 years or so that politicians finally managed to sell half of our citizens on the idea that the government knows best how much freedom the individual should be allowed to exercise, and how much of their earnings they should be allowed to keep.

    The socialist movement has always had it as its goal to either destroy the Constitution, or render it irrelevant.  It is absolutely necessary to have a simple, defining document that free people can depend on to protect them from over-reaching government, and once it is gone, our freedom will be gone with it.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 2,512 Senior Member
    Socialist policies mixed in our government don't make us socialists. The biggest introduction of such policies were from the FDR administration. The boogeyman didn't eat us and national as well as global economic depression gave way to greater prosperity as history unfolded. Was it because of or inspite of? You guys can argue that, I don't know and don't think it matters. It's my opinion that socialized policy mixed with capitalism is not the destructive monster the robber barron's mouth pieces are selling. Without a check to the tunnel vision pursuit of monetary profit our corporate heroes give us wonders like child labor, uneducated masses exploited for cheap labor, rampant alcoholism, and a vicious host of other tragic social ills. Too much socialism gives us the stagnating economic recession of the 1970"s and beyond. The tug of war between capitalism and socialism in our government is good. Too much of one and not enough of the other upsets the balance. Each side argues for a greater pull. Examples of the failure and success of both are historically evident to anyone wanting to argue over the interpretation.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,610 Senior Member
    edited June 30 #4
    Alpha, you are confusing socialism with taxation-supported essential services. Socialism is nothing less than the collective ownership of the means of production - a scenario very rarely seen today. North Korea, Cuba, and maybe a few other places. Everywhere else it has been tried it has failed miserably, or is in the process of failing. One nation that escaped the economic apocalypse that must come with socialism, Red China, successfully transitioned to classic fascism, which is a functioning dictatorship of the One Party, the Military, and a closely watched Corporate Elite privately, or in partnership with the government, 'owning' much of the means of production. The other hallmarks of fascism - intense nationalism, no labor unions, no free press, a politicized judiciary, no freedom of religion and the arts, and so forth, are all there. Cuba is embarking on that transition as we speak. Fascism, unlike socialism, and like capitalism, generates the wealth necessary to sustain the state.  

    Neither the collective provision of essential services like police, fire, trash collection, parks and recreation, public schools, or even a comprehensive cradle-to-grave social safety net, supported by a high level of taxation, is socialism. As long as the means of production remain in private hands, and the government is relatively free (allowing the customary liberties, entrepreneurialism, and organized labor) it is still a style of capitalism. The Scandinavian countries operate this way, but let there be no confusion, Sweden, Denmark, et al, are principally capitalist countries, and always have been.       
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,805 Senior Member
    My idea of socialism gone wrong is what the people of Venezuela are experiencing right now.
    I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED
    THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,490 Senior Member
    Horselips is right on. Socialism is government control of the means of production. While we do have certain things socialized (Alpha listed many above) it still doesn't mean we have live in a socialist society. It is a regulated capitalist society. I think the term gets thrown out there way too much.

    The reality is there are very few actual socialists out there. They may claim to be, but they probably aren't. The real debate we are having is the extent of taxation and regulation in our society.
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 677 Senior Member
    All paid for by tax dollars.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,357 Senior Member
    This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy.

    I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility.

    After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

    I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

    At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

    On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

    After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables, thanks to the local police department.

    And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM and TAXES are BAD and the government can't do anything right.

    Shamelessly stolen from FB. 
    My electricity is cooperative...owned by the customers. My house is wood heated from wood I cut, section, and split.
    My water is provided by a well on my privately owned property. 
    I looked out the window and saw dark clouds while reading my Accurite Pro 01036. I grabbed an umbrella.
    Breakfast consisted of eggs from my chickens, and sausage from my hog.
    I do not consume any drugs, but if I needed pain killers, I grow my own. 
    Roads are not built by the state, they are contracted by the state after property owners are evicted. My truck was approved by DoT but mods have rendered the approval moot. I buy dyed diesel using barter and Bitcoin and distill ethanol for fuel. 
    I use UPS or FedEx because I want my parcels delivered on time and to the correct address. 
    Kids attended private schools.
    My workplace insurance carrier dictates stricter requirements than OSHA. 
    I live in the country, fire codes are a suggestion. The level of inspection or compliance is up to the property owner and the insurance carrier. 
    My house is protected by me, two dogs, and surveillance provided by a private contractor. 
    The internet is almost entirely run by private business, but l was under the impression Al Gore invented it.

    Some of this is actually true...some of it is considered. It simply illustrates options for a citizen not relying on Uncle Sugar for their very lives. . 

    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,259 Senior Member
    Don't you ever get tired of smelling the **** you stir?
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,509 Senior Member
    Name one thing that the Govt does (outside the military) that is not done better and cheaper by the private sector.

    i mean, hell.... a crappy pizza chain is now fixing potholes in our roads. 
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,239 Senior Member
    Socialist is a catch-all label that poorly educated people, like myself, apply to all of those various factions who wish to govern without the restraints against government that the Constitution has provided for us, throughout our history of unprecedented accumulation of wealth and prosperity. Actually, left wing extremist is probably a more accurate label, but is more cumbersome to use, and should probably not be applied to that small handful of liberals who do still believe in the Constitution..

    For such people, the term socialist can be applied to Leninists, Stalinists, Marxists, Trotsky-ites, Maoists, and Fascists because all of them contain elements of textbook socialism. They all require authoritarian governments that make laws for everything, so that enemies of the state can be 'legally' controlled or disposed of, while ruling elites and their apparatchik can be exempted from them, to varying degrees.

    So, really, people like me use the term 'socialist' to describe all of their left leaning political opposites, in much the same way as those who clump all sizes, shapes, and degrees of conservative into the group they think of as rednecks.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 24,251 Senior Member
    This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy.

    Department of Energy formed in 1977. What the hell did we do before we had the government meddling in the electric game?

    I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility.

    From the earliest times when we used a communal well in towns, to when people hand dug their own wells and cisterns, people worked to get the water to where it was needed LONG before the government got involved.

    After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

    Before all that mess we used the hairy dog weather forecasting method. Send dog outside. If dogs fur is hot it's sunny; if dogs fur is wet, it's raining; if dog is covered in snow, it's snowing; if dog doesn't come back inside, might be a tornado in the yard!

    I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

    The FDA assures that the breakfast you ate has the required level of rodent hairs and rodent and roach droppings in it for your consumption. Other than that, they are pretty useless. The USDA is as worthless as teats on a boar hog. But you'd have to have grown up on a farm to know that.

    At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

    The railroads were the driving force for accurate time keeping. And any fool with a radioactive source and a means to count the decay of atoms can have their own atomic clock.....................except for the fact that the government hoardes radioactive material jealously and won't allow 'mere civilians' to have any of the good stuff used in the timekeeping function. The NHTSA functions were handled by the cities and states before the Fed Gov usurped that function and screwed it up beyond recognition. Fuel was just fine before the EPA screwed THAT up along with everything else they touched.

    On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

    The national postal service was the only function mentioned so far that is ALSO mentioned in the Constitution. That was the driving force for having roads built between major cities. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 7 if you're interested. And the U.S. Interstate highway system was a Cold War measure to have landing areas for our aircraft in case of nuclear attack and/or invasion. There is specific code in the initiating law that specifies that there will be sections of 'X' length to accommodate the takeoff and landing of military aircraft.

    After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables, thanks to the local police department.

    Before DOL and OSHA there were some bad actors. But generally speaking people back then weren't mental morons and took care of themselves. Fire departments used to be volunteer until cities figured they could do it and tax the crap out of the citizens. The Fire Marshal is in charge of collecting the bribes to keep substandard buildings in operation. And before the local police departments you could just shoot burglars and thieves and not have to go bankrupt defending yourself in a Libtard court.

    And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM and TAXES are BAD and the government can't do anything right.

    Seriously, NASA is the main driver for the internet, but you have to go back a LONG time before you were born to get that connection. When the space program was getting in full swing, we were still using vacuum tube circuitry as transistors were a new thing. The solid state circuitry drove the need for miniaturization to save weight on the space vehicles. That led to the Integrated Circuit packages and microelectronics that made small computers possible, and eventually very affordable. There were several groups working on the idea of the internet, so claiming DARPA as the sole source is a bit disingenuous to say the least. And let me be plain here, TAXATION IS THEFT!

    Shamelessly stolen from FB. 
    :D :D :D :D :D
    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,797 Senior Member
    Of course, all that begs the question:  "What has this quest for institutionalized comfort and safety turned us into?"

    Nobody wants to starve, freeze to death, or be eaten by lions, and so the mass of humanity has moved forward by latching like a sucker fish onto the backs and currying the favor of the few rugged individualists who could grow or transport food, build an insulated wall, or kill a lion.  Those that could have made a world where those that can't continually clamor for assistance and manipulate so they can live to breeding age. The result is that we are now at a point where the percentage of us who can actually handle the REAL difficulties is LUDICROUSLY small.  Worse, many of our number mock those who can actually do those things.

    We are FAR less the sturdy, problem-solving organism we used to be.  The meek pretty much have inherited the earth, thanks in large part to the tenets of socialism.  We need confrontation with literal and figurative man-eating lions to be at our best.  Unfortunately, the sponges have made it so there no longer are any.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,141 Senior Member
    H.G. Wells' "Time Machine" was pretty prophetic.  His time traveler meets a society that is eerily like the one we're in now.  The Eloi are the flower children- - - - -intelligent, artistic, and naïve, and they're totally dependent on the Morlock technicians they have finally banished to their subterranean lair- - - - -out of sight, but unfortunately not out of mind.  Now the Morlocks provide all the technical expertise, but they're more than happy to exact their "pound of flesh" literally- - - - -by cannibalizing the Eloi.  Personally, I'm more than happy to be a Morlock- - - - -nothing tastes better than a liberal served medium-rare with a side salad and a good glass of home-brewed wine! 
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 18,037 Senior Member
    If you remember, somewhere near the beginning of that book, one of the stuffy Englishmen says something similar to "Imagine finding a society founded on a communistic basis.".
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
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