Science Project - Pulling and Reloading .223 Remington

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Replies

  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 28,144 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Gotta get all the data written on the group pics first. Not home yet. 
    :sitting quietly in the corner:
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,115 Senior Member
    Ok, I changed the stock today and some stated I defied science. So, I shot the factory ammo with the new AICS stock installed. 




    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 28,144 Senior Member
    Oooooops.  Well that didn’t work as expected...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 2,494 Senior Member
    I've read that some rifles prefer select loads seated further than .010 off the lands.

    The velocity may be spitting them out the muzzle during the wrong point in the barrel harmonics.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,115 Senior Member
    I pulled each respective bullet with my Forster Collet Bullet Puller and reseated a new bullet to .008” off the lands accordingly. 

    In between, I removed the expander ball from my resizing die and resized the case with the powder inside and primer installed. 

    I seated both 52gr Nosler and 60gr Hornady over the existing factory load. Both seated .008” off the lands. 




    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 2,494 Senior Member
    edited July 9 #37
    Wow!
    You and Knitepoet may be on to something.

    Edit
    You could, if you were seeking possible time savings, measure  the case neck diameter after pulling the bullet before resizing and then again after resizing to determine if resizing is necessary. Unless the pulling is putting an obvious strain on the neck.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 28,144 Senior Member
    Mo’betta...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,115 Senior Member



    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 10,277 Senior Member
    Try reseating some 64 gr. Speer Gold Dots just for giggles.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,115 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Try reseating some 64 gr. Speer Gold Dots just for giggles.
    CPJ has suggested I seat the GD longer and see what happens. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 10,277 Senior Member
    Yep, rule out that variable.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,258 Senior Member
    Well that certainly worked for the best. Well done, Very well done
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 39,192 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Try reseating some 64 gr. Speer Gold Dots just for giggles.
    CPJ has suggested I seat the GD longer and see what happens. 
    And I’d do it like so. 
    Pull them .020-ish past your desired length.  Then seat them to length. Never removing them from the case. 
    That will be MOST intersting science. 
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,115 Senior Member
    There is no way to tell how far past seat length I pull them. It ain’t that precise. I can probably pull them without removing them. But, an exact distance....no. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,748 Senior Member
    that charge weight variance is amazing! I never would have expected that tight of a tolerance on factory ammo, especially .223 ammo that is more or less made for shooting in bulk. Wow
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 28,144 Senior Member
    that charge weight variance is amazing! I never would have expected that tight of a tolerance on factory ammo, especially .223 ammo that is more or less made for shooting in bulk. Wow
    I agree.  I suspect that’s why factory ammo is so much better shooting nowadays.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 39,192 Senior Member
    No surprise on charge weight, to me. It’s not rocket surgery to drop a charge. 
    And that was also a small sample, so it’s not an accurate result. One could draw conclusions of course, but not a defiente answer. 
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,115 Senior Member
    cpj said:
    Zee said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Try reseating some 64 gr. Speer Gold Dots just for giggles.
    CPJ has suggested I seat the GD longer and see what happens. 
    And I’d do it like so. 
    Pull them .020-ish past your desired length.  Then seat them to length. Never removing them from the case. 
    That will be MOST intersting science. 
    The rounds are prepped. 

    Before 1.852” BTO (Left) / After 1.890” BTO (Right)



    Not a huge difference. But, a difference. Another thing of note is the sealant they use to “water proof” the round. When I pull the bullets, it breaks the seal and leaves a crusty dry glue residue I wipe away. That sealant May also contribute to the inaccuracy. I don’t know. 

    We will see. Currently raining. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,664 Senior Member
    Not a huge difference. But, a difference.
    It is a pretty big difference.
    Somehow those bullets should perform in one of your 223's
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 39,192 Senior Member
    Yes, it’s a big diffence. I’m curious...
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 28,144 Senior Member
    cpj said:
    Yes, it’s a big diffence. I’m curious...
    Mee to!  This thread has absolutely captured my attention.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,221 Senior Member
    edited July 10 #53
    I am not surprised by the accuracy increase, going from a plated bullet. (Sorry fans, but when you get right down to it, Golddots are nothing but (fancy & expensive) plated bullets) to a JHP.

    Nice shootin' Zedrick





    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,374 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    I have a bunch of factory loaded Federal/Speer 62 & 64gr Gold Dot as well as 64gr Winchester Power Point. None of the loads are stellar in accuracy department. Some guns shoot them alright and others flat out don’t. 

    So, like I did with the .308 Win and my 165gr bonded factory ammo, I’m going to pull the bullets and try to re-seat a different bullet of similar weight with the existing powder charge and see what happens. It worked well with the .308 Win. 

    I’ve decided to try the 60gr Hornady HP/FB bullet. Close in weight, typical cup/core bullet, with good reviews. 

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/536318/hornady-bullets-22-caliber-224-diameter-60-grain-hollow-point-box-of-100

    Again, I’m hoping to pull the bullets, resize the necks (removing the die stem) and seat the new bullet without ever removing the powder. If not, then maybe just pull and reseat without resizing. 

    Thoughts on this endeavor?
    As long as you still have enough neck tension to hold the bullet it should work fine. And with the 60 grain bullets you should pick up 50-100 FPS or so.







    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,115 Senior Member
    Forgot to post. There was no improvement with the longer seated bullets. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 10,277 Senior Member
    HMMM, that is interesting, nicely done Zee The Science Guy.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 28,144 Senior Member
    Thanks for a rather interesting thread!
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,077 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Forgot to post. There was no improvement with the longer seated bullets. 
    Very good read and quality experimentation.  By chance, did the groups actually get worse going longer?
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,115 Senior Member
    About the same. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,115 Senior Member
    Gonna try the 60gr  Sierra TMK next. 





    Seated to .008” off the lands of my 24” Remington, they won’t fit in an AR mag so couldn’t be used in my ARs or Ruger. But, the 60gr Hornady I’ve been testing wont fit either. So, this will be a gun specific load. 


    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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