What would you do?

earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,594 Senior Member
Traveling long distance. Police pull you over. You're completely legal and happened by chance to be totally unarmed.

They request to search your vehicle. 

Would you grant consent to search or decline consent?????

I'm curious because even though one is completely legal, what are the pros and con's of consent?????

Replies

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,594 Senior Member
    That's what I was thinking too, but I think inquiring why might need to be done with very cordial tact.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,726 Senior Member
    Always decline. Never give up a right just because you want to be nice.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,594 Senior Member
    Always decline. Never give up a right just because you want to be nice.
    I knew there would be those with this opinion. I'm interested in the reasoning behind it?????
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 10,925 Senior Member
    Always decline. Never give up a right just because you want to be nice.
    I knew there would be those with this opinion. I'm interested in the reasoning behind it?????
    No different than somebody coming to your home unsolicited and wanting to take up your time, if you have no valid reason to be talking to me, C'ya. 
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,050 Senior Member
    If I have been pulled over for a traffic violation there is absolutely no reason for the officer to search my vehicle...there must be probable cause for a search...so there best be a good reason behind the resuest.....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,594 Senior Member
    I don't know for sure, but I'm thinking if they have probable cause then we wouldn't be faced with the decision of consent???
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    IF they have probable cause then they should be able to 'state the reasonable articulable suspicion' for their desire to search the vehicle.
    "legal Definition of articulable. : capable of being expressed, explained, or justified. police had observed drug sale and stopped defendant on articulable reasonable suspicion that he was dealing drugs. —National Law Journal."
    If they refuse to state the reason for the search and point a pistol at your head and order you out of the vehicle, do what they say. Better for you to argue the thing out in court than on the side of the road.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,594 Senior Member
    In order to decline consent, I'm supposing that said consent was requested. A polite verbal declination and subsequent polite compliance with the officers commands should alleviate any roadside escalation and establish a record of one's verbal declination for future litigation.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,726 Senior Member
    Always decline. Never give up a right just because you want to be nice.
    I knew there would be those with this opinion. I'm interested in the reasoning behind it?????
    Because it’s important to follow the constitution. 

    As for delaying the cops, it would take them 3 seconds to manufacture probable cause on the spot if they really want to do so, and if they are looking for a kidnapped kid, just the same. 

    “Mind if I search your vehicle?”
    ”I’d rather you don’t.  You do not have my permission”
    ”this vehicle matches a possible kidnap vehicle, step out of the car”
    ”sure, under protest, officer.”

    then step out, let him search, then you have everything recorded on tape in case an issue comes up. No harm, no foul on anyone’s part. Everyone goes home, no arrest 
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,719 Senior Member
    Always decline. Never give up a right just because you want to be nice.
    I knew there would be those with this opinion. I'm interested in the reasoning behind it?????
    The police will almost always ask if there is not PC. Same with your home. They cannot (legally) enter either unless you invite them. Once inside, you are powerless to stop them...they will look for contraband. This is what they are trained to do. There are countless incidents of victims getting arrested for innocuous things like culinary mushrooms, white powders, and leafy green substances. Sure, they eventually beat the charges months after the arrest and $$$ spent. 

    Be polite, but just say no. 
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,594 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    Be polite, but just say no. 
    This seems to be the consensus.

    I have been searched once. The Fish & Game asked to search my truck at a check point. They were polite, explaining in detail their intentions. I consented as I knew what and why they were curious. It was fast and neat and I was soon on my way.

    I suppose there's a case to be made for situation assessment prior to committal.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,719 Senior Member
    I've been searched a few times, both by police and F&G. I've told this particular story on this forum before so I'll keep it brief. 

    F&G had a mandatory check point set up on a BLM road. We produce licenses and about a dozen quail. The bag limit is ten per hunter, so we were well short. He starts rummaging through everything looking for more birds. There's a headless green Mohave rattlesnake in my cooler. 
    He asks "who shot the snake?"
    I say "I did." 
    Him: "Where's your fishing license?"
    Me: "What?"
    Him: "Taking reptiles is covered under the fishing regs, so I need a fishing license or I'm gonna write you up"

    Luckily, my fishing license was in the glove box and he let it go. I had no idea about the reptile regs, and if I didn't have my fishing license I would have been cited for "fishing without a license" 50 miles from the nearest water. 




    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,594 Senior Member
    That's one of the reasons I asked with this thread.

    If given the option, there seems to be intelligent and creditable reasons for not consenting to a search.
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 937 Senior Member
    I have zero reason to be hassled by the police, but I’ve seen many videos of cops violating people’s constitutional rights and making up the law like a kid playing monopoly for the first time just because they think nobody will call them out or hold them accountable. I’ll politely tell them to get ****.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,455 Senior Member
    If they have PC, they don't need to ask.  If they've asked, say no, politely.  Your job isn't to make their job easier, but that doesn't mean take an active role in obstructing, either.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,412 Senior Member

    I've been stopped and searched once, a full-blown felony stop, and there was no question that I was going to cooperate.  Staring down the business end of a Remington 870 at midnight on a lonely south Texas road is ample reason to comply with anything I'm being told to do.  It seems the red Volkswagen bug I was driving was a dead ringer for one that had been used in a robbery and shooting at a nearby convenience store, right down to the one burned-out tail light.  The fact that I was driving from Tennessee to California in somebody else's car, with USAF travel orders to Okinawa made things a little easier, once the initial confrontation was over.  It got a little tense for a few minutes, however!

     

    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,719 Senior Member
    In a situation like that, there's no question. Obey or possibly die. 


    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,375 Senior Member
    I've been in Teach's situation one time as well. The 870 makes a distinctive sound and I'm sure they racked it on purpose. As for the other? I'm starting to think that a dashboard camera is a good idea. Or even a clip on that you can activate at will. Make sure you inform the officer he's being recorded. 

    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,412 Senior Member

    My van has a smiley-face decal on both front windows- - - - -"Smile- - - -you're on camera!"

    Jerry


    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,578 Senior Member
    This reminds me of a story a co-worker told me years back:

    The guy was a bar tender, one night the cops raided the place. He reached for the phone to call the owner. A cop pointed a shot gun at him and said "Don't". In my friend's words, "He didn't say 'don't what', he just said 'don't'. So I didn't. I didn't move a muscle!"
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,626 Senior Member
    edited July 2018 #22
    If you say "no" then expect to be held up for awhile. After half an hour, here comes the sniffer dog, and no matter what, either the cop or the mutt will smell something (anything, or nothing, it duzzint matter)  that gives him reasonable cause to search it anyway. And of course, since you dissed him to begin with, any little thing that he can find wrong with anything on your vehicle will result in the most expensive ticket he can dream up.

    There are plenty of civil rights hills worth dying on, a traffic stop isn't one of them. Drive carefully.  
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,554 Senior Member
    horselips said:
    If you say "no" then expect to be held up for awhile. After half an hour, here comes the sniffer dog, and no matter what, either the cop or the mutt will smell something (anything, or nothing, it duzzint matter)  that gives him reasonable cause to search it anyway. And of course, since you dissed him to begin with, any little thing that he can find wrong with anything on your vehicle will result in the most expensive ticket he can dream up.

    There are plenty of civil rights hills worth dying on, a traffic stop isn't one of them. Drive carefully.  
    ^^^^^THIS^^^^^^
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,412 Senior Member
    "Revenge is a dish best served cold"- - - - - - -a JBT cop isn't just going to evaporate after he hassles you.  Be patient- - - - -and very creative. 
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,330 Senior Member
    Outside perspective: Cops here are SO corrupt that you better comply, specially if knowing you don't have anything to hide; if targeted by the wrong cops, anything you do will end up in a "looking guilty" situation that "fortunately" can be defused with a small/"reasonable" bribe.
    Best potential solution might be POLITELY asking them to escort you to the nearest police station to once there comply; usually if they've already checked that all your paperwork is 100% OK and you don't have any pending issues onscreen, and you look like a decent working fellow, they'll end up letting you go with some disdain and go looking for an "easier" target instead of risking a trip to their station. Paramount is acting with respect and courtesy no matter how hot is your blood boiling from the evident intent to frame you; this has worked for me at least a dozen times in the last 30 years.

    Have been shot at (With a full mag of a SMG by the way) once and pulled out through the window of my truck at gunpoint twice by these guys while doing nothing, so I think I know a bit what I'm talking about.
    Nowadays risk of being filmed AND instantly aired has hugely diminished this risk, forcing them to become less aggressive and use more "discrete" extorting tactics; fortunately haven't been affected by such problem for a while.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,719 Senior Member
    horselips said:
    There are plenty of civil rights hills worth dying on, a traffic stop isn't one of them. Drive carefully.  

    The Fourth Amendment is worth fighting for....doesn't matter if the stop turns long or the cop looks for any infraction. Rights unexercised are lost if we simply acquiesce. 

    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,607 Senior Member
    Antonio said:
    Outside perspective: Cops here are SO corrupt that you better comply, specially if knowing you don't have anything to hide; if targeted by the wrong cops, anything you do will end up in a "looking guilty" situation that "fortunately" can be defused with a small/"reasonable" bribe.
    Best potential solution might be POLITELY asking them to escort you to the nearest police station to once there comply; usually if they've already checked that all your paperwork is 100% OK and you don't have any pending issues onscreen, and you look like a decent working fellow, they'll end up letting you go with some disdain and go looking for an "easier" target instead of risking a trip to their station. Paramount is acting with respect and courtesy no matter how hot is your blood boiling from the evident intent to frame you; this has worked for me at least a dozen times in the last 30 years.

    Have been shot at (With a full mag of a SMG by the way) once and pulled out through the window of my truck at gunpoint twice by these guys while doing nothing, so I think I know a bit what I'm talking about.
    Nowadays risk of being filmed AND instantly aired has hugely diminished this risk, forcing them to become less aggressive and use more "discrete" extorting tactics; fortunately haven't been affected by such problem for a while.

    Mordida (the bite?). Very popular in Mexico. I have never been pulled over there but was advised long ago that the proper procedure is to apologize, ask the amount of the "fine", pay it, and go on your way.
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,330 Senior Member
    Yes, the "mordida" (Bite) is the Mexican way, pretty much the same as ours, although Mexican police is famous for being extremely aggressive, trigger-happy and pretty well aware of their impunity; proper "procedure" is what you describe. Here they're not as cocky and unless you're caught in an evident infraction (Usually paperwork issues) they won't straightly ask for money; apparently in most SA countries it's pretty much the same, although Chilean cops are known for being honest.

    Only have been pulled over once in the US in the mid-'80s while riding with my dad in a business trip in South Carolina. Despite my advice, he was speeding a bit and eventually we were stopped by a highway patrol; had to translate since his English is very basic and ended up getting a ticket for like 85 bucks; cop was polite and brief and although understood that we were "outsiders", he clearly stated that the speed limit was clearly advertised and there was no "free pass" for folks from the tropics.
    We later mailed a money order to the court with the fine amount and that was it, although the nice S&W Patrolman the officer was carrying in his waist holster was stuck in my mind!
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