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Justified shoot or not........Stand Your Ground FL Law

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,343 Senior Member
in Personal Defense #1



It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
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I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,343 Senior Member
    #2
    Personally, I on one hand I wouldn't try and play cop over over a handicapped parking spot. Sure it pisses me off when lazy people park in them without a placard/tag. And even then how would the shooter know the person inside wasn't handicapped?

    OTOH, after getting shoved down in the parking lot and if I felt my life was threatened may have fired. The shover (I won't call him a victim like some news outlets) was backing off after he saw the gun.

    FLA has placed the burden on the AG to prove it wasn't a SYG shoot not the shooter.

    One thing is it will bring more controversy to the SYG law in FLA.

    I like the law which doesn't require citizens to retreat/try to like some states.

    Sad, the whole thing could have been avoided. First the shooter should have known better to confront someone over a handicapped parking spot having a CCW doesn't give any of us special police powers and we should avoid confrontations wherever possible.

    Second, the shover shouldn't have pushed the man to the ground because he was pissed off the man was telling his wife/GF they shouldn't have parked there.

    The shooter was not arrested and now it rests in the AG office to determine if they will prosecute or called it justified under the SYG law. 


    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,343 Senior Member
    #3
    Well if it goes to court this doesn't look good for the shooter, however it either was SYG or not. What he did previously in other incidents shouldn't be considered, at least,  to determine if he was in the boundaries of SYG.

    Also, who knows if it is true about his previous behavior. If it is, them someone like that should of had his CCW revoked.

    "Drejka is a legal concealed weapons permit holder and will not be charged because of Florida's Stand Your Ground law, according to the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office.

    The store owner tells ABC Action News that Drejka has a history of assaulting people in the very parking lot the shooting took place. A man who frequents the store told ABC Action News he had a run-in with the man who opened fire just one month ago. Rich Kelly says the man picked a fight with him over a parking spot, using racial slurs, and even threatening to kill him. Now, a month later, a similar case, ending with a father killed in front of his 5-year-old son."




    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,117 Senior Member
    edited July 21 #4
    Based solely on a few seconds of video that does not show the actual shooting, I would think that it is a homicide that would have to be decided by a grand jury, as to whether a trial is needed. If the DA is deciding not to charge the shooter, they must know a lot more than I do about it.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,237 Senior Member
    edited July 21 #5
    This occurred just a few miles from me and as you can imagine 
    is all over local news. I think this will put "Stand your ground" in 
    the spotlight for a while. Is it a good shoot, hard to say without any sound but it appears the attacker upon seeing the Pistola   pointed his way disengages and turns to walk away. I think the shoot could be problematic for the shooter, don't forget we are in the middle of an election for Governor, you can be sure this will play a significant role. 
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 17,883 Senior Member
    edited July 21 #6
    I'm not sure if it's justified or not.

    I wouldn't be confronting somebody over a parking space like that though
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,293 Senior Member
    #7
    The handicapped parking has been a concern for me for some time.

    NC lets partially disabled vets park in such parking slots, I think it is 50% disabled or higher.
    The license plate just had  PD and small print partially disabled; no handicapped logo 


    I use those parking slots sometimes and have expected issues over it since most people and vets
    do not know those plates are proper.


    There must have been issues with those plates because the state is slowly replacing them
    with a plate with a handicapped logo, if the disabled vets knows to ask, when they reregister their
    vehicle.


    I have one of each plate until sept.


    It is a real issue though, because I personally know people that park in handicapped slots
    when their handicapped spouse is not with them. 


    .
    This message has been deleted
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 2,005 Senior Member
    #8
    Let a jury decide.

    I hate thugs. They're the main reason I carry here where I live. No I personally would seek to avoid contact in the first place, but have zero sympathy for thugs.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,343 Senior Member
    #9
    Well if the AG decides if falls in the SYG parameters there won't be a trial. If not, then I guess a 2nd degree murder or manslaughter charge.

    What I look for is his CCW to be revoked if it can be proved he threatened to shoot folks about parking at the store in the past (not this incident). If that is true or not remains to be determined.


    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 885 Senior Member
    #10
    I am surprised that I have not seen this on the news here.  Just from skimming the article, it appears that the guy that got shot was defending his girlfriend, not his parking practices.  If I walked out of a store and found someone harassing my wife, you better believe I would have gotten in his face.  As a fellow CCW licensee, I will not hesitate to say it appears that the shooter did something incredibly stupid.  Ever  since getting my CCW I have made a conscious effort to keep a tight restraint on my emotions in any given situation.  Things can go very wrong very quickly otherwise.  Rather than confronting the woman, he should have called Police and maybe an officer would have shown up in time to write a ticket.  While unauthorized use of a handicapped parking space is a major problem, it is not worth anyone's life.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,237 Senior Member
    #11
    No matter what occurred before the pushing started, the shooter
    was on solid ground until the pusher started to turn away and
    appeared to disengage. The shooter will likely face charges IMO

  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,141 Senior Member
    edited July 21 #12
    The shooter sort of appears to suffer from "short guy syndrome" (not necessarily height related) and he feels the need to compensate by bullying and threatening people.  Once the attacker disengages and begins to retreat, SYG becomes a moot point.  I think the guy might be headed for some unhappy consequences here. 
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,172 Senior Member
    #13
    According to the article on this that I saw this morning, the sheriff gave a press conference and said the shooter will not be charged. The sheriff also made it pretty clear he didn’t agree with the shoot, but that it “fit within the book ends” of the law. It also showed the video, including the shot being fired. The shot was fired several seconds after they guy had his gun aimed at the guy and as the guy was starting to move away. So, I take it that the shooter either made a conscious decision to fire after taking aim, or had his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the weapon. I’m sure we’ll never know. 

    When I first watched the video, the shooter looked to me like he could have been elderly. If that’s had been the case, I’m sure it would have been a closed case almost immediately. Turns out, he’s 47. Not much of a disparity of force, really. 
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,141 Senior Member
    #14
    The civil suit should be interesting- - - - -if it's allowed to proceed after no criminal charges are brought.
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,259 Senior Member
    #15
    I don't think you can sue in FL if cleared criminally.

    I think they will charge him or at least should.  No aggressive moves were being made when he shot.  Maybe there was something verbally aggressive but not sure that justifies killing him.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,175 Senior Member
    #16
    Let me see....this guy, who has no enforcement authority, and a history of throwing his (armed) weight around, starts a confrontation with a woman, gets knocked on his ass by the woman's husband , shoots husband and he walks?   
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 38,565 Senior Member
    #17
    Big Chief said:



    Dude should be charged with murder/manslaughter/something. 

    This is a cut and dry case of being a busy body dick head. The shooter deserved to get his ass beat for confronting the guy’s girlfriend. When he got rightfully shoved to the ground, he became a short dicked little bitch and pulled the trigger. Hopefully they will hang his dumb ass. 
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,289 Senior Member
    #18
    I have had a handicap permit since 2006, First of all i personally would never get in a pissing match over a parking spot, 2ed i watched the video several times,I could be wrong but i dont think the SYG will hold up as the threat was clearly walking away.If that happened to me i most likely would have drawn my weapon to stop any further threat but if there was none i would not have shot. It will be interesting to see the outcome .

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 550 Senior Member
    #19
    By the article, the shooter seems like the type of guy that’s just been itching to use his CCW. He’s also a dickhead mans should be charged with murder. It would be one thing if the guy that pushed him was pummeling and wailing on him (which he should have), but he wasn’t.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,172 Senior Member
    #20
    When the burden of proof in a criminal case is beyond a shadow of a doubt and you have SYG, a good defense attorney could create enough doubt that making murder stick could be difficult. Probably why the AG didn’t want to prosecute. Manslaughter could have been the way to go. But, from what I read, they already said no charges. If civil is possible, that guy is screwed and his life is gone. Different burden of proof, different ballgame. 
  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 885 Senior Member
    #21
    Some AG's will only prosecute cases that have a high probability of conviction.  That keeps their conviction percentages up, which looks good come re-election time.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,172 Senior Member
    #22
    10canyon53 said:
    Some AG's will only prosecute cases that have a high probability of conviction.  That keeps their conviction percentages up, which looks good come re-election time.
    Exactly. One of the reasons the plea bargain a lot as well. Charge them with 15 felonies, the plea bargain to a lesser charge for a conviction. 
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,261 Senior Member
    #23
    Jayhawker said:
    Let me see....this guy, who has no enforcement authority, and a history of throwing his (armed) weight around, starts a confrontation with a woman, gets knocked on his ass by the woman's husband , shoots husband and he walks?   

    Seems to be the case so far. Crazy world we live in. That was straight up homicide/murder.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,591 Senior Member
    #24
    It's easy after the fact, in the comfort and safety of our air conditioned homes, to dissect the security camera video second by second, and declare lo & behold that this or that should have been done now or then. NONSENSE. Some gorilla blind sides you, pushing you down. There you are, OUCH! - shocked, surprised and on the ground. And there he is. He's still facing you, not running away as fast as he can, not even a "hands up - don't shoot.". The only rational conclusion you can draw is he's going to come back at you. The distance between you and him can be covered in a fraction of a second. Far faster than it would take you to stand up and retreat. Shoot the b*st*rd.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,213 Senior Member
    #25
    I served as jury foreman in a 2nd degree murder trial. It sucked for everybody...prosecution, defendant, expert wittnesses....jurors.....EVERYBODY! Nobody "won". All I learned from that thing was that what you read in the papers (after the fact), is that what is "reported" bears little resemblance to the evidence presented. Good shoot... Bad shoot? Who knows? That's why we have juries. And they're not as dumb and lopsided as you'd think.
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,293 Senior Member
    edited July 23 #26
    One needs to know what both guys were saying until the shots were fired.
    This message has been deleted
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,261 Senior Member
    #27
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,261 Senior Member
    #28
    cpj said:
    Big Chief said:



    Dude should be charged with murder/manslaughter/something. 

    This is a cut and dry case of being a busy body dick head. The shooter deserved to get his ass beat for confronting the guy’s girlfriend. When he got rightfully shoved to the ground, he became a short dicked little bitch and pulled the trigger. Hopefully they will hang his dumb ass. 

    Agreed. I would have went to fists after I pushed him down for attacking my wife. He got knocked on his butt and got embarrassed. He then proceeded to commit homicide/murder. I hope he fry's. I don't think this is over.
  • deewelchdeewelch Posts: 5 New Member
    #29
    As long as the other party has a gun and I feel threatened I'll shoot first before he shoot me.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,087 Senior Member
    #30
    Can not say without seeing the rest of the video
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 550 Senior Member
    #31
    horselips said:
    It's easy after the fact, in the comfort and safety of our air conditioned homes, to dissect the security camera video second by second, and declare lo & behold that this or that should have been done now or then. NONSENSE. Some gorilla blind sides you, pushing you down. There you are, OUCH! - shocked, surprised and on the ground. And there he is. He's still facing you, not running away as fast as he can, not even a "hands up - don't shoot.". The only rational conclusion you can draw is he's going to come back at you. The distance between you and him can be covered in a fraction of a second. Far faster than it would take you to stand up and retreat. Shoot the b*st*rd.
    For **** sake.  Somebody always suppprts the obvious idiot in an altercation. The only mistake made was that the shover didn’t beat the guys ass immediately after he pushed him away from his wife.
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