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Justified shoot or not........Stand Your Ground FL Law

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  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Under a logPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
    I make one assumption that is generally always true. People who don't mind their own business usually find themselves in less than satisfactory circumstances as things generally go sideways at some point. Or, in street talk, "Don't start no 'stuff', and there won't be any 'stuff'." That shooter started the 'stuff', the 'stuff' went sideways, and he shot someone and killed the person. 'Stuff' went sideways. Had he minded his own "P's and Q's" as the old folk used to say, then nothing would have happened.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
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  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Southwest PAPosts: 2,907 Senior Member
    edited August 2018 #153
    tennmike said:
    I make one assumption that is generally always true. People who don't mind their own business usually find themselves in less than satisfactory circumstances as things generally go sideways at some point. Or, in street talk, "Don't start no 'stuff', and there won't be any 'stuff'." That shooter started the 'stuff', the 'stuff' went sideways, and he shot someone and killed the person. 'Stuff' went sideways. Had he minded his own "P's and Q's" as the old folk used to say, then nothing would have happened.

    That's where I stand on this case. I am still of the opinion that given his past behavior in several incidents that he was hell bent on this outcome. He at the least committed manslaughter. I would say murder, but that would be really hard to prove. I do believe that it was premeditated though. He was just waiting for the right chance to do it. 
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 1,057 Senior Member
    Michakav said:
    tennmike said:
    I make one assumption that is generally always true. People who don't mind their own business usually find themselves in less than satisfactory circumstances as things generally go sideways at some point. Or, in street talk, "Don't start no 'stuff', and there won't be any 'stuff'." That shooter started the 'stuff', the 'stuff' went sideways, and he shot someone and killed the person. 'Stuff' went sideways. Had he minded his own "P's and Q's" as the old folk used to say, then nothing would have happened.

    That's where I stand on this case. I am still of the opinion that given his past behavior in several incidents that he was hell bent on this outcome. He at the least committed manslaughter. I would say murder, but that would be really hard to prove. I do believe that it was premeditated though. He was just waiting for the right chance to do it. 
    I agree in a nutshell. A man has left this Earth fairly early because some other guy grew up to be an asshole.
  • Ken_S_LaTransKen_S_LaTrans Posts: 108 Member
    Diver43 said:
    Buford said:
    1.  The shooter engaging the woman over a parking space where he had no legal authority to do so.


    So one needs legal authority to tell some inconsiderate low budget bitch that she shouldn't park there.  I have done something similar and I didn't need legal authority.  What about folks that litter and leave camp looking like a crap hole tore into those folks pretty bad. Again with no legal authority.

    horselips said:
    Knock somebody down who didn't touch you first - sorry, but you started it. Knocking people down is bad form, and I don't want to hear your side of it, especially if the guy you hit was only talking and not touching. The victim of your aggression naturally felt threatened - who THE HELL wouldn't think you're a nut case? Sane people don't knock other people down. Don't be surprised if you get shot. 
    Moral of the story - Keep your hands to yourself. Period. End of story.

    Pretty much.
    So....you're going to stand by and let someone call your mom, sister, wife, or daughter an "inconsiderate low budget bitch" and do nothing?




    And you and anyone else knows he said anything like this how?

    My point has always been we have seen what the media wanted us to.  Conversation could have easily started with something like:   Ma'am, do you realize this is a handicapped parking only?  The way in the car could have then said things like:  You m!@#$ing you know what, I will park where the !@#$ I feel like it and if you get in my way I will kill your !@#$.    Guy could have made hand gestures and said whatever lady karma is a !@#$%
    At that point he got violently shoved and yes violently. He moved several feet and skidded on the ground.

    What happened after that we saw, but again did not hear what either side was saying. We do not know what was said between the shooter and woman, we do know a man shoved the shooter, we do not know what was then said by anyone.  What was said will mean a lot when putting the pieces together and the media will sensationalize everything.

    Some of us disagree as some say justified some say hang him, all I am saying is I do not believe the media, I/we have not seen any tape from before what the media wants us to see and we did not hear what was said.
    Has anyone heard more in depth information?

    Nope.  I am merely seeking to understand how the double standard applies.

    Because based on many of the comments on this thread...a 3rd grade shoving match is now justification for lethal force. 
    ONLY THE INFERIOR CRY FOR EQUALITY
  • Ken_S_LaTransKen_S_LaTrans Posts: 108 Member
    Diver43 said:
    Buford said:
    1.  The shooter engaging the woman over a parking space where he had no legal authority to do so.


    So one needs legal authority to tell some inconsiderate low budget bitch that she shouldn't park there.  I have done something similar and I didn't need legal authority.  What about folks that litter and leave camp looking like a crap hole tore into those folks pretty bad. Again with no legal authority.

    horselips said:
    Knock somebody down who didn't touch you first - sorry, but you started it. Knocking people down is bad form, and I don't want to hear your side of it, especially if the guy you hit was only talking and not touching. The victim of your aggression naturally felt threatened - who THE HELL wouldn't think you're a nut case? Sane people don't knock other people down. Don't be surprised if you get shot. 
    Moral of the story - Keep your hands to yourself. Period. End of story.

    Pretty much.
    So....you're going to stand by and let someone call your mom, sister, wife, or daughter an "inconsiderate low budget bitch" and do nothing?




    And you and anyone else knows he said anything like this how?

    My point has always been we have seen what the media wanted us to.  Conversation could have easily started with something like:   Ma'am, do you realize this is a handicapped parking only?  The way in the car could have then said things like:  You m!@#$ing you know what, I will park where the !@#$ I feel like it and if you get in my way I will kill your !@#$.    Guy could have made hand gestures and said whatever lady karma is a !@#$%
    At that point he got violently shoved and yes violently. He moved several feet and skidded on the ground.

    What happened after that we saw, but again did not hear what either side was saying. We do not know what was said between the shooter and woman, we do know a man shoved the shooter, we do not know what was then said by anyone.  What was said will mean a lot when putting the pieces together and the media will sensationalize everything.

    Some of us disagree as some say justified some say hang him, all I am saying is I do not believe the media, I/we have not seen any tape from before what the media wants us to see and we did not hear what was said.
    Has anyone heard more in depth information?

    Nope.  I am merely seeking to understand how the double standard applies.

    Because based on many of the comments on this thread...a 3rd grade shoving match is now justification for lethal force. 
    ONLY THE INFERIOR CRY FOR EQUALITY
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    No word yet on whether he will be charged.  It will be controversial either way.   Still being looked at by the states DAs. If he is a jury will decide his fate if he doesn't cop a plea of some kind.



    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Under a logPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
    DA has a hard row to hoe on this one. At least evidence we don't know about will be in his/her hands along with any testimony from the woman and the shooter, and maybe anyone that saw/were in hearing of what happened. That fool that did that shooting puts a bad light on all CCW people just by association. From the video, I don't think the shooter has a leg to stand on regarding SYG OR self defense.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Southwest PAPosts: 2,907 Senior Member
    edited August 2018 #159
    tennmike said:
    DA has a hard row to hoe on this one. At least evidence we don't know about will be in his/her hands along with any testimony from the woman and the shooter, and maybe anyone that saw/were in hearing of what happened. That fool that did that shooting puts a bad light on all CCW people just by association. From the video, I don't think the shooter has a leg to stand on regarding SYG OR self defense.
    Agreed!

    Pretty sure his past interactions of the same kind with several people will play a big part. Not sure how effective it will be though given current SYG law and how it is interpreted. If he does walk, I would bet money he continues with his "righteous" behavior. From what I have read, he likes to terrorize people. He finally found a guy willing to PUSH back and shot him for it.
  • Ken_S_LaTransKen_S_LaTrans Posts: 108 Member
    Diver43 said:
    Buford said:
    1.  The shooter engaging the woman over a parking space where he had no legal authority to do so.


    So one needs legal authority to tell some inconsiderate low budget bitch that she shouldn't park there.  I have done something similar and I didn't need legal authority.  What about folks that litter and leave camp looking like a crap hole tore into those folks pretty bad. Again with no legal authority.

    horselips said:
    Knock somebody down who didn't touch you first - sorry, but you started it. Knocking people down is bad form, and I don't want to hear your side of it, especially if the guy you hit was only talking and not touching. The victim of your aggression naturally felt threatened - who THE HELL wouldn't think you're a nut case? Sane people don't knock other people down. Don't be surprised if you get shot. 
    Moral of the story - Keep your hands to yourself. Period. End of story.

    Pretty much.
    So....you're going to stand by and let someone call your mom, sister, wife, or daughter an "inconsiderate low budget bitch" and do nothing?




    And you and anyone else knows he said anything like this how?

    My point has always been we have seen what the media wanted us to.  Conversation could have easily started with something like:   Ma'am, do you realize this is a handicapped parking only?  The way in the car could have then said things like:  You m!@#$ing you know what, I will park where the !@#$ I feel like it and if you get in my way I will kill your !@#$.    Guy could have made hand gestures and said whatever lady karma is a !@#$%
    At that point he got violently shoved and yes violently. He moved several feet and skidded on the ground.

    What happened after that we saw, but again did not hear what either side was saying. We do not know what was said between the shooter and woman, we do know a man shoved the shooter, we do not know what was then said by anyone.  What was said will mean a lot when putting the pieces together and the media will sensationalize everything.

    Some of us disagree as some say justified some say hang him, all I am saying is I do not believe the media, I/we have not seen any tape from before what the media wants us to see and we did not hear what was said.
    Has anyone heard more in depth information?

    Nope.  I am merely seeking to understand how the double standard applies.

    Because based on many of the comments on this thread...a 3rd grade shoving match is now justification for lethal force, and having a CCW is actually
    ONLY THE INFERIOR CRY FOR EQUALITY
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    The board is contributing to mistakes in posters text. The above post is the second one this evening absent the last words.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Tarpon Springs FLPosts: 1,281 Senior Member
    Just on local news, DA to charge shooter with manslaughter. Took long enough! 
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Under a logPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
    104RFAST said:
    Just on local news, DA to charge shooter with manslaughter. Took long enough! 
    Better to take the time to gather all evidence available to make sure than to make a knee jerk determination from public outcry and waste time and money on a no win charges and trial.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    104RFAST said:
    Just on local news, DA to charge shooter with manslaughter. Took long enough! 
    Better to take the time to gather all evidence available to make sure than to make a knee jerk determination from public outcry and waste time and money on a no win charges and trial. 

    And if even one person who has ever been hit by a bully gets on that jury - the shooter either walks or the jury is what gets hung. 

  • BufordBuford Senior Member CA. Beach citiesPosts: 6,721 Senior Member
    104RFAST said:
    Just on local news, DA to charge shooter with manslaughter. Took long enough! 
    Just like Zimmerman.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Southwest PAPosts: 2,907 Senior Member
    edited August 2018 #166
    horselips said:

    And if even one person who has ever been hit by a bully gets on that jury - the shooter either walks or the jury is what gets hung. 


    Except that the shooter was the bully. The DA will show several instances proving as much.

    I'm glad they took their time to gather evidence. Some is public knowledge already like the video and some of his past behavior. I am interested to see what the witness statements are. A detective stated that McGlockton was more than 10' away from Drejka when shot.  
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    I wonder if there was no shooting done, would they have charged the victim with assault?  Doubt there would have been any public outcry for it.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Southwest PAPosts: 2,907 Senior Member
    BAMAAK said:
    I wonder if there was no shooting done, would they have charged the victim with assault?  Doubt there would have been any public outcry for it.

    I doubt defending your wife from a known instigator would go very far. 
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Will be an interesting case.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Shooting part aside, he took it to the next level.  Plus the guy was a convicted felon.  If you want to bring pasts into it, bring them both in.  But I doubt either one of their pasts would be relevant in court to the facts of this instance.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Southwest PAPosts: 2,907 Senior Member
    edited August 2018 #171
    BAMAAK said:
    Shooting part aside, he took it to the next level.  Plus the guy was a convicted felon.  If you want to bring pasts into it, bring them both in.  But I doubt either one of their pasts would be relevant in court to the facts of this instance.

    Not sure the deceased's past has any bearing, although the shooters most certainly does. But you are right, the court will likely take neither into account. But with video evidence, detectives evidence and witness statements, I don't believe it adds up to a SYG defense. Never know though.

    I am just glad that my early fighting days are long behind me. Apparently to some on this forum getting pushed down for acting like a douche bag is reason enough to shoot someone.
  • Ken_S_LaTransKen_S_LaTrans Posts: 108 Member
    Michakav said:
    BAMAAK said:
    Shooting part aside, he took it to the next level.  Plus the guy was a convicted felon.  If you want to bring pasts into it, bring them both in.  But I doubt either one of their pasts would be relevant in court to the facts of this instance.

    Not sure the deceased's past has any bearing, although the shooters most certainly does. But you are right, the court will likely take neither into account. But with video evidence, detectives evidence and witness statements, I don't believe it adds up to a SYG defense. Never know though.

    I am just glad that my early fighting days are long behind me. Apparently to some on this forum getting pushed down for acting like a douche bag is reason enough to shoot someone.
    Rule 404 would preclude the decedent's past as being relevant to the case.  There is no way that Drejka could have known that his victim was a felon, because a victim "is as you find them" and in this case...it wouldn't matter anyway.

    Drejka has a history of stupid behavior with his gun, and while that info may never get to the jury...I can guarantee it played a part in the decision to indict him subsequent to the detective's investigation because it shows a pattern of behavior.

    After looking at the video yet again...the victim was in active retreat when Drejka fired, and it was by my count four full seconds between the time Drejka drew, and the victim began his immediate retreat before Drejka fired.  Drejka fired at a man in retreat or who had "abjured from the conflict".



      


    ONLY THE INFERIOR CRY FOR EQUALITY
  • bisleybisley Senior Member East TexasPosts: 10,815 Senior Member
    Without more facts, there is reasonable doubt on every aspect of what has been argued here.

    Leave it up to the grand jury to decide if a trial is needed, and if so, leave it to the jury and appeals court. They don't always get it right, but they have a better record than a lynch mob, the creation of which seems to be the main function of the press, these days.
  • Ken_S_LaTransKen_S_LaTrans Posts: 108 Member
    bisley said:
    Without more facts, there is reasonable doubt on every aspect of what has been argued here.

    Leave it up to the grand jury to decide if a trial is needed, and if so, leave it to the jury and appeals court. They don't always get it right, but they have a better record than a lynch mob, the creation of which seems to be the main function of the press, these days.
    As of this morning, subsequent to investigation, he has been charged by Pinellas County with manslaughter.
    ONLY THE INFERIOR CRY FOR EQUALITY
  • Ken_S_LaTransKen_S_LaTrans Posts: 108 Member
    According to reports, Drejka has been involved in four incidents in the last 6 years, as the accused aggressor.  Two of them involved firearms, and in one incident he confronted and threatened a truck driver who was parked in the same spot.  This dood has a history of being confrontational and starting incidents.  A reasonable person, especially a reasonable person with a gun avoids starting conflicts. 

    Based on his history, it seems like the newly anointed  Golden Child Of SYG is kind of a putz with no business carrying a gun to begin with. 

    Nowhere in ANY Stand Your Ground law does it say you can start, escalate, or continue a confrontation...and then claim self defense.
    ONLY THE INFERIOR CRY FOR EQUALITY
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Miami, FL almost in the USA ;)Posts: 6,992 Senior Member
    I predict he will say " He shoved me down, and said. " I'll kill you man!" and I feared for my life.  I thought he was backing up to take out a gun."

    Florida jury of his peers, he will walk.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Tampa, FL areaPosts: 2,954 Senior Member
    Michakav said:



    I agree in a nutshell. A man has left this Earth fairly early because they were all assholes.
    There.  Fixed it for you.
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • EliEli Senior Member Attalla, Alabama.Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Eli: "Why don't I get on the forum anymore?"

    Other Eli: *reads 220+ posts of of insults, grand-standing, "well I wouldas", anger, contempt, insults, blatant obtuseness, unmasked aggression, mild to moderate stupidity, gnashing of the teeth and, admittedly, a small amount of logic and rational thought...

    Eli: "Oh...that."
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    And post #224 which adds judgemental.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • EliEli Senior Member Attalla, Alabama.Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    BAMAAK said:
    And post #224 which adds judgemental.
    Yes.
    That was the point of my post.

    Like, 100%...the absolute, complete point. Thank you for not missing that. Your powers of observation are truly and deeply appreciated.


    In case anyone else didn't get it...yes, I am absolutely judging the entirety of this forum. Now, since I'm just somedude on the internet, (probably in his mom's basement, possibly involved in some kind of "Cheeto" type situation), my judgement has no real world consequences...but I'm doing it nonetheless. In my judgement, I've decided to continue my lurker ways. The vast majority of interactions on this forum are simply no longer worth getting involved in.

    In another thread, the Mods stated that they were going to clean the place up, I'm all for it. Until that happens, if there's a thread that I just should not go on living my life without taking notice of, please text me. If you don't have my number, then you aren't qualified to make that call.
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