Justified shoot or not........Stand Your Ground FL Law

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Replies

  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,444 Senior Member
    BAMAAK said:
    I wonder if there was no shooting done, would they have charged the victim with assault?  Doubt there would have been any public outcry for it.

    I doubt defending your wife from a known instigator would go very far. 
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Will be an interesting case.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,319 Senior Member
    Shooting part aside, he took it to the next level.  Plus the guy was a convicted felon.  If you want to bring pasts into it, bring them both in.  But I doubt either one of their pasts would be relevant in court to the facts of this instance.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,444 Senior Member
    edited August 2018 #185
    BAMAAK said:
    Shooting part aside, he took it to the next level.  Plus the guy was a convicted felon.  If you want to bring pasts into it, bring them both in.  But I doubt either one of their pasts would be relevant in court to the facts of this instance.

    Not sure the deceased's past has any bearing, although the shooters most certainly does. But you are right, the court will likely take neither into account. But with video evidence, detectives evidence and witness statements, I don't believe it adds up to a SYG defense. Never know though.

    I am just glad that my early fighting days are long behind me. Apparently to some on this forum getting pushed down for acting like a douche bag is reason enough to shoot someone.
  • Ken_S_LaTransKen_S_LaTrans Posts: 108 Member
    Michakav said:
    BAMAAK said:
    Shooting part aside, he took it to the next level.  Plus the guy was a convicted felon.  If you want to bring pasts into it, bring them both in.  But I doubt either one of their pasts would be relevant in court to the facts of this instance.

    Not sure the deceased's past has any bearing, although the shooters most certainly does. But you are right, the court will likely take neither into account. But with video evidence, detectives evidence and witness statements, I don't believe it adds up to a SYG defense. Never know though.

    I am just glad that my early fighting days are long behind me. Apparently to some on this forum getting pushed down for acting like a douche bag is reason enough to shoot someone.
    Rule 404 would preclude the decedent's past as being relevant to the case.  There is no way that Drejka could have known that his victim was a felon, because a victim "is as you find them" and in this case...it wouldn't matter anyway.

    Drejka has a history of stupid behavior with his gun, and while that info may never get to the jury...I can guarantee it played a part in the decision to indict him subsequent to the detective's investigation because it shows a pattern of behavior.

    After looking at the video yet again...the victim was in active retreat when Drejka fired, and it was by my count four full seconds between the time Drejka drew, and the victim began his immediate retreat before Drejka fired.  Drejka fired at a man in retreat or who had "abjured from the conflict".



      


    ONLY THE INFERIOR CRY FOR EQUALITY
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,731 Senior Member
    Without more facts, there is reasonable doubt on every aspect of what has been argued here.

    Leave it up to the grand jury to decide if a trial is needed, and if so, leave it to the jury and appeals court. They don't always get it right, but they have a better record than a lynch mob, the creation of which seems to be the main function of the press, these days.
  • Ken_S_LaTransKen_S_LaTrans Posts: 108 Member
    bisley said:
    Without more facts, there is reasonable doubt on every aspect of what has been argued here.

    Leave it up to the grand jury to decide if a trial is needed, and if so, leave it to the jury and appeals court. They don't always get it right, but they have a better record than a lynch mob, the creation of which seems to be the main function of the press, these days.
    As of this morning, subsequent to investigation, he has been charged by Pinellas County with manslaughter.
    ONLY THE INFERIOR CRY FOR EQUALITY
  • Ken_S_LaTransKen_S_LaTrans Posts: 108 Member
    According to reports, Drejka has been involved in four incidents in the last 6 years, as the accused aggressor.  Two of them involved firearms, and in one incident he confronted and threatened a truck driver who was parked in the same spot.  This dood has a history of being confrontational and starting incidents.  A reasonable person, especially a reasonable person with a gun avoids starting conflicts. 

    Based on his history, it seems like the newly anointed  Golden Child Of SYG is kind of a putz with no business carrying a gun to begin with. 

    Nowhere in ANY Stand Your Ground law does it say you can start, escalate, or continue a confrontation...and then claim self defense.
    ONLY THE INFERIOR CRY FOR EQUALITY
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,810 Senior Member
    I predict he will say " He shoved me down, and said. " I'll kill you man!" and I feared for my life.  I thought he was backing up to take out a gun."

    Florida jury of his peers, he will walk.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,952 Senior Member
    Michakav said:



    I agree in a nutshell. A man has left this Earth fairly early because they were all assholes.
    There.  Fixed it for you.
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Eli: "Why don't I get on the forum anymore?"

    Other Eli: *reads 220+ posts of of insults, grand-standing, "well I wouldas", anger, contempt, insults, blatant obtuseness, unmasked aggression, mild to moderate stupidity, gnashing of the teeth and, admittedly, a small amount of logic and rational thought...

    Eli: "Oh...that."
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,018 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    But now we're talking about toilet paper, werewolves, public urinals and stuff...the subject matter is almost back to normal!
    I can't believe you left out "walmartians" <smh>
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,319 Senior Member
    And post #224 which adds judgemental.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    BAMAAK said:
    And post #224 which adds judgemental.
    Yes.
    That was the point of my post.

    Like, 100%...the absolute, complete point. Thank you for not missing that. Your powers of observation are truly and deeply appreciated.


    In case anyone else didn't get it...yes, I am absolutely judging the entirety of this forum. Now, since I'm just somedude on the internet, (probably in his mom's basement, possibly involved in some kind of "Cheeto" type situation), my judgement has no real world consequences...but I'm doing it nonetheless. In my judgement, I've decided to continue my lurker ways. The vast majority of interactions on this forum are simply no longer worth getting involved in.

    In another thread, the Mods stated that they were going to clean the place up, I'm all for it. Until that happens, if there's a thread that I just should not go on living my life without taking notice of, please text me. If you don't have my number, then you aren't qualified to make that call.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,801 Senior Member
    Whats wrong with eating Cheetos in my mom's basement?😯
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,664 Senior Member
    Michakav said:

    I am just glad that my early fighting days are long behind me. Apparently to some on this forum getting pushed down for acting like a douche bag is reason enough to shoot someone.
    As far as I'm concerned you should be able to shoot someone for stealing personal property.  Physical assault definitely.  If more people start getting killed due to stupid acts the word will get out.  The revolving door justice system in not working the criminals just don't give a damn time to up the ante.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,444 Senior Member
    edited August 2018 #199
    Buford said:

    As far as I'm concerned you should be able to shoot someone for stealing personal property.  Physical assault definitely.  If more people start getting killed due to stupid acts the word will get out.  The revolving door justice system in not working the criminals just don't give a damn time to up the ante.

    The shooter got shoved down for committing a stupid act. He had committed SEVERAL stupid acts previously. So what's your point again?   
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,664 Senior Member
    Michakav said:
    Buford said:

    As far as I'm concerned you should be able to shoot someone for stealing personal property.  Physical assault definitely.  If more people start getting killed due to stupid acts the word will get out.  The revolving door justice system in not working the criminals just don't give a damn time to up the ante.

    The shooter got shoved down for committing a stupid act. He had committed SEVERAL stupid acts previously. So what's your point again?   

    I missed the part where he was assaulting people and slamming them down to the ground.  If he was doing this, I stand corrected. Again we do not know what was said or why the woman got out of her safe space to confront this man.  This is Zimmerman all over again he initiated it, she escalated it, and the boyfriend assaulted him  and the instigator claimed self defense and how did that work out.  I'm done with this least ways until the trial that will be interesting.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,444 Senior Member
    edited August 2018 #201
    Buford said:

    I missed the part where he was assaulting people and slamming them down to the ground.  If he was doing this, I stand corrected. Again we do not know what was said or why the woman got out of her safe space to confront this man.  This is Zimmerman all over again he initiated it, she escalated it, and the boyfriend assaulted him  and the instigator claimed self defense and how did that work out.  I'm done with this least ways until the trial that will be interesting.

    Seems you missed a lot. If you believe that his past behavior, of which there are several instances, has no bearing on this interaction then you are blind.

    That's aside from the FACT that McGlockton was backing up, posed no further threat, and was more than 10' away when shot. According to detectives. But what do they know?

    I'm glad they are not as singular minded!
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 963 Senior Member
    Agreed. Being pushed is no reason to act like a little bitch.
  • Ken_S_LaTransKen_S_LaTrans Posts: 108 Member
    But.... she and he were illegally parked! The cops weren't around!

    SOMETHING HAD TO BE DONE!!!!
    @[email protected]

    Two thumbs up!

    Some places have what is called a civilian HPET program where citizens can volunteer to be part of a Handicap Parking Enforcement Team and they go to X-number of hours of training and are given an ID and a citation book and they can issue HCPVs.  It's popular with cop fans and wannabes who want more power than they can get as an HOA board member.  The Golf Cart Mafia in my current town of residence seems to think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.  You haven't lived until you have seen two septuagenarians fighting over who gets to "hang the paper" on a car in violation at Safeway. 

    HOWEVER...the HPETs are specifically told NOT to approach an occupied vehicle or to engage the driver in any way because of the risk of potential aggression.
     

    This is not an issue for the uniformed officer (there's that whole pesky "mantle of authority" and statute book in the pocket that says we CAN write you a ticket and that any full frontal stupidity will further complicate your day) because being aggressive with an officer in lawful performance of their duties carries a high risk of criminal charges.

    I just have missed the part where the driver of the vehicle posed a threat to Drejka.  I must have also missed the part where Drejka needed emergency medical services after his ***GASP***  harrowing and deadly experience at the hands of McGlockton and his push.  A bruised ego and possible bruise to the butt.  Traumatic Tushy Syndrome?  How horrible, how awful, oh the humanity..how did he survive?

    Being aggressive with a self-appointed parking enforcement official can, I suppose, turn into an unscheduled trip to the morgue if Sheepdog Drejka is around.  It looks like Drejka finally got what he wanted though.  He finally got to shoot someone.  It only took him six years and FOUR prior incidents (two involving a firearm, and one at that very store) before he could skin that smoke wagon and bust a cap in someone's ass.  Thank God we have brave men like him who are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for our liquor store shoppers!  

    Look how well it's going to work out for him.  Even if they find 12 people who are willing to suspend disbelief and buy his BS tale of how he was in fear for his life from a man who was "in retreat"...it's going to cost him a minimum of $100K for a mediocre attorney to defend him and that is with no competent expert witnesses added to his bill.  Even if he has one of the CCW insurance policies, they may refuse to take the case and provide representation based on the inculpatory evidence in the video.  

    What a freakin' hero.  What a great example of the CCW holder for the media to get their hands on.  What a stellar example of a "reasonable man".  

    It seems to me that in order to make the case that he was in fear for his life, or whatever SYG catchphrase one choosesafter a simple push and impact on his tushy, then he'd have to admit that he goes around with his head up his butt and there was a danger of breaking his neck.








    ONLY THE INFERIOR CRY FOR EQUALITY
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    edited August 2018 #205
    But.... she and he were illegally parked! The cops weren't around!

    SOMETHING HAD TO BE DONE!!!!
    @[email protected]

    Two thumbs up!

    Some places have what is called a civilian HPET program where citizens can volunteer to be part of a Handicap Parking Enforcement Team and they go to X-number of hours of training and are given an ID and a citation book and they can issue HCPVs.  It's popular with cop fans and wannabes who want more power than they can get as an HOA board member.  The Golf Cart Mafia in my current town of residence seems to think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.  You haven't lived until you have seen two septuagenarians fighting over who gets to "hang the paper" on a car in violation at Safeway...………..
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    For some, maybe even for most, a shove resulting in a 'traumatic tushy' is not a capital offense, and cooler heads might be expected to prevail over an exaggerated sensitivity, but that's not everybody. We can't know what fear and anger was metastasizing in Drejka's fevered mind at the moment he was attacked, then at the moment he was losing his balance, then at the moment he landed on his behind, and then at the moment he recovered his perception, and then how or why he decided he was in danger of life or limb. He wasn't hooked up to a brain scan, so all we have is his word regarding the storms raging between his ears. And the sensation of landing violently on your ass depends on one's skeletal condition. A young, healthy and fit man might feel next to nothing, jump right back up, and deliver a knuckle sandwich to his antagonist. But an older man, out of shape and arthritic might perceive his situation very differently. I suspect Drejka was more like the latter. 

    Neither the history of Drejka or his felonious mugger will be admissible at the trial, lest that prejudice the jury. The verdict will be founded on the exhibits and testimony entered into evidence regarding this and only this incident. Based on what the jury is allowed to know, and perhaps more so on what the jury doesn't and can't know, I see either an acquittal or a hung jury. Why? Think about it - if the jury includes one or two older people who have ever suffered from a bad back, or had back surgery, they will be much more sympathetic. Anyone old enough to suffer from severe arthritis will be sympathetic. And anyone who has ever been the victim of a physical attack and wasn't able to shoot the s.o.b. will definitely be sympathetic. 

    How would I vote? Well, let's see. Over my 6+ decades, I've had a car stolen, a car broken into, and some kids once paint-balled and TPeed a house I owned. I've received prank phone calls. I've had my ID stolen. No one, not one single perp, was ever executed for any of these offenses. Have I held a smoldering, subconscious grudge? You betcha. Lock & Load.       









  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,801 Senior Member
    I think this thread is a perfect example of a society coming to grips with the power of video and some of its failings as an indication of event recollection. The biggest failing being lack of context. This lack of context is and has been a continuing cause of wrongful interpretation of speech for perhaps centuries? No reason to expect anything different with the interpretation of video except that it can have a much greater power of persuasion.

    For me personally, I have to try and believe that twelve of my peers will have superior interpretive perception to my own, especially in light of due process of presentation of context. Even after and perhaps contrary to the court of public opinion as influenced by a manipulative press.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I don't think he can afford a private lawyer seeing how he can't even come up with bail money. Either a public defender or some lawyer looking for a high profile case will take it then pro-bono.

    If the jury decides it was a STG shooting he can't be sued in a civil court case either (I think), if not then he is headed to jail.

    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Ken_S_LaTransKen_S_LaTrans Posts: 108 Member
    horselips said:
    But.... she and he were illegally parked! The cops weren't around!

    SOMETHING HAD TO BE DONE!!!!
    @[email protected]

    Two thumbs up!

    Some places have what is called a civilian HPET program where citizens can volunteer to be part of a Handicap Parking Enforcement Team and they go to X-number of hours of training and are given an ID and a citation book and they can issue HCPVs.  It's popular with cop fans and wannabes who want more power than they can get as an HOA board member.  The Golf Cart Mafia in my current town of residence seems to think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.  You haven't lived until you have seen two septuagenarians fighting over who gets to "hang the paper" on a car in violation at Safeway...………..
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    For some, maybe even for most, a shove resulting in a 'traumatic tushy' is not a capital offense, and cooler heads might be expected to prevail over an exaggerated sensitivity, but that's not everybody. We can't know what fear and anger was metastasizing in Drejka's fevered mind at the moment he was attacked, then at the moment he was losing his balance, then at the moment he landed on his behind, and then at the moment he recovered his perception, and then how or why he decided he was in danger of life or limb. He wasn't hooked up to a brain scan, so all we have is his word regarding the storms raging between his ears. And the sensation of landing violently on your ass depends on one's skeletal condition. A young, healthy and fit man might feel next to nothing, jump right back up, and deliver a knuckle sandwich to his antagonist. But an older man, out of shape and arthritic might perceive his situation very differently. I suspect Drejka was more like the latter. 

    Neither the history of Drejka or his felonious mugger will be admissible at the trial, lest that prejudice the jury. The verdict will be founded on the exhibits and testimony entered into evidence regarding this and only this incident. Based on what the jury is allowed to know, and perhaps more so on what the jury doesn't and can't know, I see either an acquittal or a hung jury. Why? Think about it - if the jury includes one or two older people who have ever suffered from a bad back, or had back surgery, they will be much more sympathetic. Anyone old enough to suffer from severe arthritis will be sympathetic. And anyone who has ever been the victim of a physical attack and wasn't able to shoot the s.o.b. will definitely be sympathetic. 

    How would I vote? Well, let's see. Over my 6+ decades, I've had a car stolen, a car broken into, and some kids once paint-balled and TPeed a house I owned. I've received prank phone calls. I've had my ID stolen. No one, not one single perp, was ever executed for any of these offenses. Have I held a smoldering, subconscious grudge? You betcha. Lock & Load.       









    How would I vote? Well, let's see. Over my 6+ decades, I've had a car stolen, a car broken into, and some kids once paint-balled and TPeed a house I owned. I've received prank phone calls. I've had my ID stolen. No one, not one single perp, was ever executed for any of these offenses. Have I held a smoldering, subconscious grudge? You betcha. Lock & Load. 

    So, are you saying that all of those offenses should warrant the death penalty?  Because taken in its entirety, it seems like that is what you're saying.  It also tells me that you're saying that regardless of the facts of the case, your emotional need for revenge (...smoldering, subconscious grudge?) on whomever committed those offenses will be satiated by someone, anyone, paying the price for it by proxy.  The law, right, wrong, and evidence don't matter...it's all about whoever is in front of you paying for the sins of others?

    Fortunately, most juries do try to do the right thing.  
    ONLY THE INFERIOR CRY FOR EQUALITY
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,664 Senior Member
    A lot of folks in today's society need killing. Just sayin
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • KurtKurt New Member Posts: 21 New Member
    There were multiple wrongs committed on both sides.

    1. The person parking in the Handicapped spot was wrong.
    2. The armed citizen should never have personally confronted the parked offender. He should have taken a photograph and forwarded it to civil authorities.
    3. The armed citizen should never have confronted the husband exiting the store.
    4. The man exiting the store should never have laid hands on the armed citizen.
    5. The armed citizen should never have gotten himself into the position of feeling he had to shoot an unarmed person.


    By all accounts, this is a tragedy. Both families will be denied their male members by the foolish anger of one man. One is now dead. The other will, no doubt, spend a large piece of his remaining life incarcerated. 

    I once read, The best self-defense tool is the human brain and its situational awareness (i.e. the ability to avoid life threatening circumstances). 
    We should all exist in Condition Yellow. This poor fellow was blinded by his anger.
    “The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user.”
    Col. Jeff Cooper
  • Ken_S_LaTransKen_S_LaTrans Posts: 108 Member
    So here's an interesting update:  It turns out, not only is he a dick, but he's also a liar.

    https://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/Michael-Drejka-accused-in-parking-lot-shooting-I-followed-the-law-the-way-I-felt-the-law-was-supposed-to-be-followed-w-video_171388538

    Drejka tells the interviewer that he:

    He added that he does not typically approach people or get into arguments.

    But local police reports show that he does:

    The Times has reported that local police records and interviews show Drejka was accused in at least three previous road rage incidents, along with one other unreported altercation months ago over the same parking spot, though he was never arrested.

    And that given the chance :

    Asked if he would do anything differently if he could change that day, Drejka told WTSP, "not off the top of my head."

    Like maybe not start **** and not shoot a guy who was backing away.

    The woeful lack of understanding of SYG and self defense law is staggering.  This guy may have single handedly pounded the last nail in the coffin of SYG for the people of Florida,  Good job Drejka.  There's your new hero.

    ONLY THE INFERIOR CRY FOR EQUALITY
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