Range report - several guns shot!

MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior MemberPosts: 4,768 Senior Member
I've been spending a lot of time on the bench recently trying to for once, get my guns ready WELL before hunting season. Took 4 out to the range today, almost took 5, but 4 proved to take enough time to get my monies worth from range fees. It was a nice day out, I was expecting Tstorms in the afternoon, but everything seemed to drift around the public range I went to. I usually hate this range, but in the afternoon on a weekday, it was actually pretty empty. At one point just me and another guy, who was also working up loads. It made target changing quick, and the range master was really cool. 

I'll get some pics up here in a bit, I haven't had much of a chance to organize post trip, and I'm house sitting at the moment so I don't have my calipers with me for an exact measurement

Took out:
M70 375 H&H
M70 25-06
Ruger tang safety 257 AI 
TC Triumph 50 cal. 

I'll start with the 50 cal. I ordered some bullets from Thor, these are the newer "any bore". They sucked. My gun really does NOT like them. I also ordered a sizing kit for their normal full bore bullets. You have to order the sizing pack, find which one fits best, then order the bullets. They are specially manufactured Barnes TSX, the Thor guy orders them once a year. I always waited too long. The newer ones have a flexible skirt like a Hornady FPB. I tried a few charge combos, just all over the place. I'll put in an order for the harder, bore specific bullets and try those out (turns out my correct bore is .501)

For the 257 AI  I had made up 10 fireforming loads, just to see how well that worked vs firing factory ammo, after I had a few split cases last go around with Hornady Superformance ammo. Regular Hornady worked fine and is very accurate. I went with a mid range charge of IMR 4350 and Hornady 117 gr spire points seated out into the lands. This worked great! And was decently accurate, all things considered. The very first group hovered under an inch I think ( don't have my mic on me). I also brought some factory ammo just to make cases. Funny thing, I noticed a HUGE difference in the cases!!! I knew the factory was backing out a little, because the primers were almost removed. But comparing the cases, I now know what I suspected last fall, some hack of a garage gunsmith ran the reamer in and did NOT set the barrel back, leading to excessive headspace. And why I blew a few cases last time. I'll get some pics up here shortly. I'm going to have to fire all the factory formed ammo TWICE now to get them correct. On the other hand, I know I can use that load for forming the other 40 or so WW cases I have and end up with correct brass. On the upside, the shoulder is farther forward, so, more powder room!!

M70 25-06:
This is the rifle from my stock painting thread a few weeks ago. I knew I'd have to re-zero it with the new stock and putting the scope back on. Thankfully I still had some Fed Fusion 120gr from last year, that gun REALLY likes that load. First 3 shots were tight, but oh, 4" high and 4" left. Got it dialed back and then ran the reloads. I used:
120gr Hornady HP - the discontinued bullet. They interlocks but without the name. These are actually VERY tough bullets come to find out, made for heavier game and faster 25's. Most of the negative reviews I've found were from guys shooting those greyhound deer down south, and some of the positive reviews were from elk hunters. Very tough bullet. I bought a few hundred at the gunshow, just in case. 
Brand new WW brass w/ WLR primers

Started off with IMR4831, and it was what some would consider acceptable, but not me or most on this board. The load data for the 25-06 is all over the place from high to low. So I went in the middle. The other guy at the range thinks I'll do better if I really bump up the charge, I think I topped out at 49 gr and he said his recipe was like 52-53, which coincides with some data I've seen. 

Next up IMR 4350 - my starting load of 45 gr (mid range in some books, starting in others, go figure) put 2 touching and 1 off, for under an inch over all. I was really pleased! Obviously more speed would be better, but I can always figure out drops. As I went up in charge weight it opened up, a LOT. It could be a combo of heat, dirty barrel, and my shoulder getting beaten like a red headed step child all day. 

RL22 - all 3 loads were consistently MEH. 2"+ range, but more consistent between weights in the group size. I'll probably leave this powder for other stuff. 

I'm going to work more closely on the 4831 and 4350, see if I can dial into 1/2" groups with either. Not opposed to trying out another powder either, and I also have 115gr Partitions and the 117gr Hornady I bought solely for fireforming the 257. But this gun does seem to like 120's, the Federal stuff still shot just a bit bigger than my best hand load, so at least I've always got a back up plan, and cheap. 


375 H&H - 

Even with the muzzle brake, this thing still pops fairly good. I fired 23 rounds. I won't do that again. And yes I still want it to be lighter. I ended up putting my Zeiss Tx3 3-9x42 on it, because the Nikon BARELY fit between the rings. And by barely I mean it probably actually would have crunched the tube slightly. Dang 375 rings are FAR apart. Working on finding a 1-4x20 scope currently. 

I sent 5 Rem 270gr factory loads down range to zero. With the brake not bad at all, felt about like my heavy 300 Wby or my old REALLY light 30-06. I have some 250 gr Sierra, and I think the brake works well enough I'll give them a shot here shortly. 

235 Speer Spire Point
Hornady 1x fired brass
Fed GM215M 

Started off with 3031 in the middle of all the data I could find, 63-65-67 gr. I've seen data from 59 to 75. All 3 groups were in the 2" plus range, and not really consistent. The starting load put 2 bullets in the same hole, 4 inches lower than the first shot. And it didn't get better after that. 

Powder 2 was Varget, again picked middle range loads. And like my 2nd powder 25-06, my starting load was by far the best at 65 gr. I am going to ladder 63/64/65 next time. Today was 65/67/69. And again, the more powder the bigger the groups. 65gr should be putting that bullet out just shy of 2700, so I've basically made a heavy 35 Whelen load, which was the goal. 


All in all, a great day at the range, but I over did it. I could feel it the last few shots. Looking forward to doing it all again in a few days once I've healed so I don't develop a flinch. Plus, new powders, bullets, and probably new guns. Oh, and a new LIGHTER scope for the 25-06, which I'll now have to re-zero. But hey, I cut 4oz off of the loaded weight. 

Pics to come shortly



Wambli Ska wrote: »
Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.

Replies

  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    375 H&H w/3031


    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    375 H&H Varget


    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    257 Fireforming 


    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    25-06 4831


    25-06 IMR4350


    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    25-06 rl22

    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    And the difference in firing factory vs land crushed hand loads




    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member

    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 10,940 Senior Member
    Thats a good start, you have more fiddling to do. 23 out of H&H was a bit much, hey.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Thats a good start, you have more fiddling to do. 23 out of H&H was a bit much, hey.
    That was probably the worst day of load development I've ever had, to be honest. But, learned a lot. Before it was easy running things like the 243, 30-06, 300 mags. They all seemed to have a smaller envelope of performance. With the 375 especially, I'm in personally uncharted waters. I think I have shot a 375 H&H once before today, and it was like 2 shots. I'm going to narrow down the charge for Varget, and I think I might try IMR4320, since I have almost 3 pounds of it. I do believe I bought it when I worked at Gander during the shortage, knowing I'd have a 375 one day. 
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 10,940 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Thats a good start, you have more fiddling to do. 23 out of H&H was a bit much, hey.
    That was probably the worst day of load development I've ever had, to be honest. But, learned a lot. Before it was easy running things like the 243, 30-06, 300 mags. They all seemed to have a smaller envelope of performance. With the 375 especially, I'm in personally uncharted waters. I think I have shot a 375 H&H once before today, and it was like 2 shots. I'm going to narrow down the charge for Varget, and I think I might try IMR4320, since I have almost 3 pounds of it. I do believe I bought it when I worked at Gander during the shortage, knowing I'd have a 375 one day. 
    I hear you, that how my .338 Federal does me, I do have Zees loads I need to try yet with mine. I would think there has been a boatload of .375 H&H sent down range, there must be some good starting points with specific powders out there.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    There are, but the info is WIDELY different. Just the combo of 3031 and 235 gr Speer, I've found published data from 59 to 75 grains!!!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    With that Kimber...man, its probably time to have that sent to Oregon to be re-bored to 358 Win. You've had nothing but drama with it. Rebarrel or rebore at this point. 225$ and it'll be back in 2 weeks fresh and ready to go, with a mo' bigga hole
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,627 Senior Member
    Sounds like a lot of work going on. 

    Hope ypu find light light at the end of the tunnel. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,731 Senior Member
    Great Range report MHS.

    I found with my pre 64 mod 70 in 375H&H that wearing a past recoil pad made it a **** cat at the range despite the absence of a brake. I fired 13 rounds with the past pad and the following day there was no effect at all.

    On the advice of some of the guys here, I fitted it with a Leupold 2-7x33  scope and it suits it perfectly.........except the bolt handle clears the scope by the thickness of about 3 pieces of foolscap.

    I aint going to reload for it at this stage as factory loads gave me a .717 group. ( and it was windy at the time)



    Just a suggestion but you might try Varget for the 25-06.
    My load data book for Varget says the starting load of 38 gr pushing a 120gr projectile gives you 2584fps.
    The book max is 41gr which should give you 2755fps. I have found with my 243 and 7mm08 that the max book load is conservative and both the loads I use in those rifles are slightly above book max without any signs of over pressure.....and they are both sub .5 shooters.....

    Just a thought......


    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,615 Senior Member
    That's alot of centerfire rifle shooting. I couldn't do that much at one time without fatigue and flinching.

    You're almost ready for the season though!
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,803 Senior Member
    That's alot of centerfire rifle shooting. I couldn't do that much at one time without fatigue and flinching.

    You're almost ready for the season though!
    FWIW I agree with Early.  I have done a few of those marathon range sessions to work on multiple guns and loads and I have had less than stellar results.  I suggest no more than two guns, and two types of powder per gun.  If you ladder 3 rounds per charge weight and have 6 weights, that would be a total of 72 rounds just for the two guns, and when I am shooting for accuracy that's about a three hour session.  I'm not a young durable guy anymore. Three hours of shooting wears on me enough that the last hour has so much fatigue it's all I can do to stay consistent.  I get both thirsty and hungry.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    Yea I have a PAST, I just always forget to bring it. I'll move it today with my bags so its part of the range gear. 
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    Alec, 

    I have to see if I can flip around the mounts on the 375. As it is set up now, the Zeiss was the only scope tube that fit. I would love a 2-7x33 Leupold, or a 1-4x20 but the problem at the moment is just the length between the rings is so long. 

    It was my first outing with handloads for the 25-06, I'm pretty happy with the 4350 starting load. A few books had it starting at 44, my load was 45. I put that bullet into a ballistics calculator last night and going up or down 100 fps at a time only changed the 350 yard impact by about 3/4" and energy wasn't world changing different. I just have to email hornady and see what their suggested minimum impact is for that bullet and go from there. 

    I DO have Varget, and lots of 4320 though. 
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 1,496 Senior Member
    IIRC they make off set ring to correct this problem.
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,771 Senior Member
    I don't give a RA what you have for powder.........put some 4350 ,and it's either one, in that 375 case and watch it perform
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