What's A Good Distance To Pratice Shooting ???

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Replies

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,165 Senior Member
    Gene, I was told by some older LEOs that the hand to the chest was to add another layer for a bullet to come through and hopefully keep it from hitting the heart or lungs.
    Now, I've also been told by competitive shooters that tlmoving the hand to the chest and tightening it up will make your upper body more stable.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,749 Senior Member
    Only if you yell, ELIZABETH!
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,327 Senior Member
    Well, guess I can tell my lousy results, since I said I would do it. But, I don’t have much other than a story and a guess. 

    The shot timer was not having it today. Just wasn’t gonna work. So the only run I got in, with my buddy taking a video with one hand and trying to work the shot timer with the other, the timer only read the first 4 shots. It read .85 to first, best split .17, total time 1.26 for 4. So I can only give a SWAG that with splits in the high teen range, it could have been in the 1.45 range. But that’s just a guess and assumes that’s the shot timer was accurate on the 4 it read. 

    I was shooting at an already shot target, but know which hits were mine. My group definitely wasn’t great. First a little low (fired just before the gun was locked) 3 center, last a little high (fired while the gun was still in recoil from the 4th shot)  All good torso hits. Just spread a little vertically.

    This was done from a level 3 Blackhawk on a thigh platform, Glock 17. And with everything else going on and a shot timer that didn’t want to work, that’s all I’ve got. 

  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,327 Senior Member
    I don’t see the pic in my previous post, so try again without trying to edit it and chance losing it. 
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,737 Senior Member
    That’s pretty darn good in my layman mind as to a first shot from a Level 3 holster. 

    The verticle stringing, I would guess is just a matter of locking the wrist or controlling the recoil a bit better to minimize the string. 

    As long as they are stringing in the center of the target, you have your index. Just need to control the jump. 

    Again, just guessing from the comfort of my recliner. Or........hotel bed. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,327 Senior Member
    edited September 2018 #97
    I agree with you completely. It’s as I’ve said, speed vs accuracy. My speed outran accuracy that time. Fist round before full lock, 2, 3 and 4 good lock, good hits, 5 was let go before recovering from recoil. Watching the video frame by frame, I can see each hit on target. The time between 4 and 5 was fast. Probably the .17 split. Just hadn’t recovered from recoil yet. 1st shot low, hadn’t locked in yet. 

    For what it is and my ability, I’ll take one in the belly and 4 in the chest...  :D
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    The Quick and the Dead.....................dang if I'd be standing behind or off to the side of any shoot by gunfighters.........



    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    French maids are talented.......................
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,305 Senior Member
    Jay said:
    I agree with you completely. It’s as I’ve said, speed vs accuracy. My speed outran accuracy that time. Fist round before full lock, 2, 3 and 4 good lock, good hits, 5 was let go before recovering from recoil. Watching the video frame by frame, I can see each hit on target. The time between 4 and 5 was fast. Probably the .17 split. Just hadn’t recovered from recoil yet. 1st shot low, hadn’t locked in yet. 

    For what it is and my ability, I’ll take one in the belly and 4 in the chest...  :D
    That's pretty fast in such a vault as you're drawing from.  At bad-breath range, my intention was to put rounds down range as fast as I could and not shoot dime-size groups but to throw a diversion to whomever was trying to kill me at close range.  I don't remember how much of a group I got and didn't really care, but believe I got them all in the chest area or the pepper popper wouldn't fall.  A round in the gut even is bound to distract a shooter of you.  I shot from an open holster.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,305 Senior Member
    I would add that I did draw against the drop one time.  A woman pointed a gun at me when she answered the door on a Woman With a Gun call.  She's been waving it around on the street.  I responded and she opened the door with a small auto in her hand.  I responded immediately from a high-level security holster and a revolver.  She threw the gun backwards as soon as I started the draw or when I presented it (with some strong language.)  I was ready to kill her if she hadn't offered any more of a threat, which she didn't.  As it turned out, it was a phony gun, a gas gun IIRC, and I'm glad I didn't kill her.  She was crazy, or mentally **** at least.  Her name was Merdelle Kidd.  I didn't charge her, although I was pissed off, because she was crazy and didn't really offer to my safety, although I didn't realize it in the moment.

    If it had been real, I probably would have taken a round in my vest.  But she would have been dead.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,327 Senior Member
    Jay said:

    Damn!!!  You got .85 from THAT holster!  I think you might be my new hero...

    That holster is actually really quick to draw from for a lvl 3. Everything unlocks with a natural drawing grip. The top is unlocked by a lever on the inside of the holster that is activated by my thumb. Done properly, the gun unlocks and comes out in one smooth motion. I’ve been running that holster for years and have it down pretty well. Like any piece of gear, it can have it’s down sides. But I’m aware of them and can minimize them for the most part. 

    Until recently, I wore that same holster on my belt. Moved it to a thigh rig for a couple of reasons. Clearance and comfort, mostly. Not because I’m so oper8tor.. Getting most of the weight off my hips and lower back is definitely a nice thing as I get older. 🤓 Have spent quite a bit of time working with it in its new location, teaching my brain it’s not where it thinks it is any more...

  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,327 Senior Member
    Big Chief said:
    French maids are talented
    Model. Not maid. I don’t even make my own bed... 😁

  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Jay said:
    Big Chief said:
    French maids are talented
    Model. Not maid. I don’t even make my own bed... 😁

    Touche ;)
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,327 Senior Member
    Gene L said:

    That's pretty fast in such a vault as you're drawing from.  At bad-breath range, my intention was to put rounds down range as fast as I could and not shoot dime-size groups but to throw a diversion to whomever was trying to kill me at close range.  I don't remember how much of a group I got and didn't really care, but believe I got them all in the chest area or the pepper popper wouldn't fall.  A round in the gut even is bound to distract a shooter of you.  I shot from an open holster.
    There’s definitely a real world, sensible training aspect to it. We do a similar drill for such scenarios, but do it while moving. Based on how you described it originally, the idea was to move, draw fire. You went with draw and start firing immediately. We do draw and start firing WHILE moving. Draw, start firing at index (2) while moving and continue firing through the draw while moving at creating distance. Fire at 2, fire at 3, fire at full extension, while moving. It’s very likely that ones natural reaction to such a scenario would be, “I’m out of here!”  Fight or flight and all. So, let’s fight while we’re getting out of there. At the least, it’s harder to hit me when I’m sending lead at you AND I’m a moving target. And it might give me a chance to get to cover. 
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,327 Senior Member
    JUst for fun, I did a still from the video showing shot placement. After slow scrolling through the video again, I had shots 4 and 5 backward earlier. 

  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,945 Senior Member
    edited September 2018 #107
    Big Chief said:
    Touche ;)
    Chief, I'd be careful getting "touchy" with a man that quick on the draw LOL

    (and yes, I know it's touche' and is actually pronounced "too-shay")
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,737 Senior Member
    edited September 2018 #108
    The 90s called. They want their thigh rig back. 😁

    Don’t get me started on thigh rigs. 😳
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,327 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    The 90s called. They want their thigh rig back. 😁

    Don’t get me started on thigh rigs. 😳
    Lol. I know, I know... I’ve heard it all. 🤪 But, it accomplishes 2 things for me. As mentioned, gets weight off my waist. I also sometimes wear a molle vest, the other reason for the thigh holster. 

    Ive never been a huge fan of thigh rigs. Mostly because the operator types think it’s supposed to be worn like a gangsters pants; around their knees. IMO, when properly worn, the thigh rig should put the gun high on the thigh, not far below where it would be with a drop down belt holster. Clears the vest, and combined with the vest moves most of the weight to my leg and shoulders. And I don’t have crap being shoved into my lower back when I’m sitting. 👴🏻

    For me, it’s definitely not to be tacticool. It’s more about comfort and convenience. To be honest, since I spend most of my time these days behind a desk when I’m not at the range, it’s just easier and more comfortable to throw on a vest and this rig when I go out to play. 
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,305 Senior Member
    Jay said:

    There’s definitely a real world, sensible training aspect to it. We do a similar drill for such scenarios, but do it while moving. Based on how you described it originally, the idea was to move, draw fire. You went with draw and start firing immediately. We do draw and start firing WHILE moving. Draw, start firing at index (2) while moving and continue firing through the draw while moving at creating distance. Fire at 2, fire at 3, fire at full extension, while moving. It’s very likely that ones natural reaction to such a scenario would be, “I’m out of here!”  Fight or flight and all. So, let’s fight while we’re getting out of there. At the least, it’s harder to hit me when I’m sending lead at you AND I’m a moving target. And it might give me a chance to get to cover. 
    That's certainly a thought.  My mind isn't  coordinated enough to do two things at once up close..shoot and move.  That's essentially what John Farnham taught, using two hands and taking a step backward, but that slowed me down a lot more than I was comfortable with.  I went for simple instinct, relying on a quick first burst of gunfire to create space between me and the BG. If you're certain of what's behind you, great, but if not you could triip over something.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,305 Senior Member
    Addendum: I did not move and fire, I stayed in place rather than move and shoot.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,327 Senior Member
    We usually start at about three yards, draw and fire at the 2 position and fire while continuing the draw and moving back to the 7. Falling on your butt or back is a definite possibility. We also practice safely shooting seated and laying on your back. Saw a video the other day of a deputy doing exactly that. Individual exited the passenger side of a truck with a gun. Deputy drew and started firing while moving and ended up on his back. He kept shooting while on his back, along with his partner who joined the party, until he got back up. Suspect took a trip to the morgue instead of jail. 
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,327 Senior Member
    Correction. The above should have been 3 feet. Not 3 yards. 
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,737 Senior Member
    If you’re standing still in a gunfight.......you’re probably NOT getting shot at. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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