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Decades Of Mismanagement Turned US Forests Into ‘Slow-Motion Time Bombs’

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member

"Zybach said Native Americans used controlled burns to manage the landscape in Oregon, Washington and northern California for thousands of years. Tribes would burn up to 1 million acres a year on the west coast to prime the land for hunting and grazing, Zybach’s research has shown."


It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

Replies

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    This has been known for several years.

    Burning intentionally for conservation is a complexed quagmire of political pot holes in a patchwork quilt of residential lands. Targeted and selective deforestation and subsequent regeneration faces an opstical course of special interests.

    What I want the land managed for is of course best for everyone😈
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,698 Senior Member
    Link wants too much clingy attention before it lets you read it.

    Leave it completely alone with no human intervention whatsoever. . .It's gonna burn eventually.  It's just a question of what timetable.  There's species of trees that don't even spit out seeds until you light them on fire, so the notion that a forest fire is inherently "bad" is simply a matter of perspective.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,289 Senior Member
    Yeah...they were going on about "mismanagement" the last time Yellowstone burned....still haven't learned...regular controlled burns don't allow fuel to build up to explosive levels and enrich the soil...any Kansas farmer/rancher can tell you that...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member A true 'Southerner'. NZPosts: 8,403 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    Yeah...they were going on about "mismanagement" the last time Yellowstone burned....still haven't learned...regular controlled burns don't allow fuel to build up to explosive levels and enrich the soil...any Kansas farmer/rancher can tell you that...
    Kansas has trees? When did that happen?............
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    I used to think that clear cutting was horrible but now understand that it is rather necessary to prevent stuff like these unnatural occurrences from happening.

    Michigan DNR...

    Greenpeace co-founder, Patrick Moore...
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Old RonOld Ron Senior Member Posts: 4,461 Senior Member
    They had trees orchid ......then they burned them off for the dust bowl to send them to California. lol
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,289 Senior Member
    orchidman said:
    Jayhawker said:
    Yeah...they were going on about "mismanagement" the last time Yellowstone burned....still haven't learned...regular controlled burns don't allow fuel to build up to explosive levels and enrich the soil...any Kansas farmer/rancher can tell you that...
    Kansas has trees? When did that happen?............
    Trees grass same thing....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • rberglofrberglof Senior Member North DakotaPosts: 2,985 Senior Member
    I was at Yellowstone before the fire and it was sad, stands of dead trees were everywhere.
    Went back about 7 years after it and the change was dramatic, new growth was everywhere.
    I was watching the news of the fire and it was obvious that the reporters had never even been there talking about how the fire was jumping from one area to another oblivious to the fact that it was jumping from dead stand to dead stand.
    Lodge pole pine is one of the trees that must have fire to reproduce.

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    We have massive acreage of dead pine here in Colorado from bark beatle infestation.

    If you ever used dead pine as fire starter, nuff' said.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,289 Senior Member
    knitepoet said:
    Jayhawker said:Trees grass same thing....
    Cows and beavers might disagree with you on that one Jayhawker
    LOL
    In the grand scheme of things, trees are just big grass...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    edited August 2018 #12
    Conservation minded logging makes for natural fire breaks which thwart major wild fires. When the leftist Dummycraps shutdown the logging industry they created a bomb in the forests.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • 1965Jeff1965Jeff Senior Member Olsburg KansasPosts: 1,650 Senior Member
    Yeah we got have trees in the flint hills the deer need them this year, we are on our third August of this year . Mostly white oaks in the draw by our house.
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Lima, PeruPosts: 2,986 Senior Member
    When in CO last year in the vicinity of the recent fires our host showed us the huge amount of trees in the area that were dead or dying due to a bug plague that was hitting the fores badly; according to him it could be controlled and cured but those in charge weren't investing in healing infected trees and removing the dead, dried ones that have become a huge fire hazard.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Under a logPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
    About the best and only control for pine beetles is to remove ALL the infected trees and burn those unsuitable for lumber. Pine borer beetle grubs find the trees easiest to infest in the hot dry months as the sap won't flow over them and suffocate them. The pines grown for pulpwood are really susceptible to the pine borers; there's thousands and thousands of acres of pulpwood pines on the Cumberland Plateau that are standing dead from beetle infestation. The paper company that owned the pines sold the land at least 15 years ago and the pines are still standing with secondary growth taking over. It's a bunch of fires waiting for a spark or lightning strike to start them burning. The secondary growth is a HUGE fire load in itself due to the high dry weeds and small hardwoods.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • BufordBuford Senior Member CA. Beach citiesPosts: 6,721 Senior Member
    snake284 said:
    Conservation minded logging makes for natural fire breaks which thwart major wild fires. When the leftist Dummycraps shutdown the logging industry they created a bomb in the forests.
    Some stupid regulations on the books that's for sure.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    Ive read speculatory articles supposing the regeneration of vast tracts of aspen in the aftermath of the pine forest destruction. The mountains here are dotted everywhere with private residences. The pending danger is catastrophic.

    I read about a fire in the 1880's that raged west from Minnesota and Wisconsin jumping Lake Michigan to flash accross to Lake Huron. The intensity incinerated people that jumped in wells to escape. Imagining a similar recurrence is frightening.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,289 Senior Member
    I think you're referring to the Peshtigo WI fire that occured in 1871 on the same day as the Great Chicago Fire....killed somewhere between 1500 and 2500 people...never could get an accurate count because entire towns were vaporized..
    There was basically a fire storm all over the Great Lakes States...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    Yes, I think thats it👍
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Kaniksu Nat'l Forest, IDPosts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Ive read speculatory articles supposing the regeneration of vast tracts of aspen in the aftermath of the pine forest destruction. The mountains here are dotted everywhere with private residences. The pending danger is catastrophic.

    I read about a fire in the 1880's that raged west from Minnesota and Wisconsin jumping Lake Michigan to flash accross to Lake Huron. The intensity incinerated people that jumped in wells to escape. Imagining a similar recurrence is frightening.
    As someone who lives inside a Nat'l Forest, you must be prepared to bug out. It hasn't rained in two months and was 106° and windy yesterday. We have a sprinkler perimeter set up around the buildings with a generator to power the well. Start the genny, open the valve, and haul ass. 


    Check out the Great Fire of 1910. Said to be the largest fire (not the deadliest) in US history. There are remains of big burned cedars throughout the forest, including a couple on my property. 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member

    The quote feature on this new board sucks bad!

    I kept the book about the 1910 fire.

  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Kaniksu Nat'l Forest, IDPosts: 5,486 Senior Member
    I took a short hike to take this. 


    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    That burnt stump is surrounded by some serious fuel. At least its mostly green.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Under a logPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
    That burnt stump is surrounded by some serious fuel. At least its mostly green.
    Got a similar fern here in TN. If the stuff is dry, even though it's green, it will burn like it's been sprayed with gasoline. In the background of that picture you can see why conifer tree fires spread so fast. The limbs are just barely above the ground and the needle leaves are easy to get started burning. There's some dead standing timber in the upper right of the picture, too. Nothing like dried and resin filled dead timber to make a hot fire. And the resin inside some of them will explode when heated and spread fire even further.

    CaliFFL has the right idea. If that stuff catches fire, then start the generator, turn on the sprinklers, and bug out!
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Central MNPosts: 14,663 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    I took a short hike to take this. 


    How preserved is that stump? Could you cut it and get some usable lumber out of it? Might be interesting. We have some monster cedar tree stumps and white pine stumps up at our hunting shack too, logged, not burned, much shorter.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Kaniksu Nat'l Forest, IDPosts: 5,486 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    That burnt stump is surrounded by some serious fuel. At least its mostly green.
    Got a similar fern here in TN. If the stuff is dry, even though it's green, it will burn like it's been sprayed with gasoline. In the background of that picture you can see why conifer tree fires spread so fast. The limbs are just barely above the ground and the needle leaves are easy to get started burning. There's some dead standing timber in the upper right of the picture, too. Nothing like dried and resin filled dead timber to make a hot fire. And the resin inside some of them will explode when heated and spread fire even further.

    CaliFFL has the right idea. If that stuff catches fire, then start the generator, turn on the sprinklers, and bug out!
    The branches near the ground are usually dead from lack of sunlight. Excellent fuel that spreads fast. There are no trees within about 100 feet from my house. I keep this area mowed to reduce the fuel. The trees nearest the house are trimmed as high as I can reach with an extension saw. Again, to reduce the fuel. The remaining acreage is completely wild except for some quad trails and tree stands. I drop the standing dead and remove windblowns for the most part. The dead tree in the photo needs to go, but it isn't firewood quality. We are on a chainsaw ban until it rains. So I wait for cooler temperatures. 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Kaniksu Nat'l Forest, IDPosts: 5,486 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:

    How preserved is that stump? Could you cut it and get some usable lumber out of it? Might be interesting. We have some monster cedar tree stumps and white pine stumps up at our hunting shack too, logged, not burned, much shorter.
    That particular stump is just a shell. I know people who will use them for kindling. If you scrape of the burned material, the wood underneath still smells like cedar. Surprised me after so long. On NF land the burned stumps are informally viewed as "historical". The last evidence of the 1910 fire. People leave them alone for the most part. 

    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


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