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Big Chage for Archery Season: bought a Mathews Triax

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  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    edited August 2018 #32
    cpj said:
    jbp-ohio said:
    Boy, their website suxz.......
    Yeah, but they are convincing in person. Or so I hear. 🤣
    You know that I know that you know what may or may not have been ordered today after handling their wares in person...to include picking the exact laminate panels and such.  But what would I know about a lefty PCH-X in Kingwood with a 47 lb. draw weight (+/- 1 lb.) at 26" draw length, brass inserts for a stabilizer and quiver, 3-finger under tiller, and a 58" overall length.  Not a thing, I tell ya!  

    cpj said:
    Oh. His new Matthews. It’s profanity inducing quiet. He shot it in the parking lot (you might be a redneck if) today when we met for lunch. Both myself and my coworker said dirty words when he shot. It’s seriously the quietest bow
    ive ever heard. 

    ...aaaaaand I'm glad that I now have a witness from this forum who can attest to the fact that I'm not exaggerating when I said that it is jaw-droppingly quiet with no peer on the market that even comes close, even among other Mathews models.  Profanity-inducing is exactly right because it doesn't seem real when you see the string fly forward and hear such an unremarkable sound.   Your reaction was pretty much my reaction when I shot it for the first time at the shop - total disbelief.

    Gene L said:
    I'm old and weak and don't hunt.  When I did, it was with a longbow or a recurve.  Not so long ago. 

    The new bows are interesting and flat shooting.  I'm not totally sure you need all that speed for hunting, but it can't hurt.  The thing is to get up close as you can; my buddy shot a cow elk up close with a 50# hickory longbow that followed the string about an inch and a half.  Because of good placement the arrow penetrated both lungs to the other side, where it lodged inside the hide there.  It took him two days to hoppus the meat back to his camp.

    It's been at least 40 years since I shot a compound bow.  About 3 years since I shot a recurve.  I didn't suck at it.

    Believe it or not, Gene, this new compound bow is actually slower than my 5 year old model that its replacing, but the tradeoff for the dramatically lower noise threshold was worth it.  While it definitely adds an advantage if you *do* want to take a longer shot, I'm still a firm believer in getting close.  Specifically, I prefer all of my archery shots to be 20 yards and in. With a recurve (or a hickory bow like your buddy used), I want them more like 15 yards and in.  I'm a much better recurve shot than I was a few years ago, but certainly not a sharpshooter with one. 
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • terminator012terminator012 Senior Member Posts: 3,930 Senior Member
    Shot one a friend of mine bought. It was sweet.
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 4,235 Senior Member
    Sounds like quite the arachnid.

    Sako 
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    sakodude said:
    Sounds like quite the arachnid.

    Sako 

    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    I had a mild panic attack last night after thinking about the imaginary Black Widow recurve that I did not order.  After looking up draw weight minimums across a few Western states, the reality is that several of them require 50 lb. draw weight minimum for elk and moose.  Now, I have no clue if I would ever end up hunting either of those species with a traditional bow, but the thought of having to exclude them for a mere 3 lb. difference was not sitting well.  Given that I shot 50 lb. models just fine in their demo room, the extra draw weight is not enough to fret.

    I called back and told them that if a bow were to ship to my house in 7-9 weeks, it would really be much better if it sat right at 50 lb. draw weight on the button as opposed to the 47 lbs. that we originally discussed.  They said it was no problem and altered the request accordingly.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,225 Senior Member
    I was pulling 70# and maybe a couple more.  Fast shooting (not fast fps).  My last longbow is 50# and it was very quiet.

    My friend who shot the elk was probably pulling 35# with all the string follow.  But he was close...the cow walked up on him on a self-guided hunt in unknown territory.  So he was lucky, too.

    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    Yes, 70 lbs. is assuredly a heavy pull for a traditional bow.  Like cpj, my current  recurve is merely in the 40 lb-range (and by that, I mean exactly 40 lbs).  You can measure its velocity with a sundial, but it's comfortable to shoot, which made it a great learning platform.  I've read around that one of the most common mistakes for new traditional archery shooters is to start too high on the draw weight.  I can definitely see where a overly tough bow would 1) cause serious shakes and ruin form, 2) make practice un-fun and 3) destroy one's confidence before they ever get going.

    Now that I have some confidence, I feel good moving up to 50 lbs, but that took over 2 years of shooting/practicing at 40 lbs. to feel good enough to make that call.  It's definitely a big leap, but it will make for a significantly flatter trajectory from the speed jump it brought at the demo range.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    I was pulling 70# and maybe a couple more.  Fast shooting (not fast fps).  My last longbow is 50# and it was very quiet.

    My friend who shot the elk was probably pulling 35# with all the string follow.  But he was close...the cow walked up on him on a self-guided hunt in unknown territory.  So he was lucky, too.

    You buddy had some good fortune there, but I'd rather be lucky than good in the field, any day of the week.  I'm sure he could've killed it further out, too, but I guarantee that he was glad it wasn't necessary.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,225 Senior Member
    He's killed a hell of a lot of deer with traditional bows.  His father killed two turkeys with longbows, one while flying (taking off.)  All my bowbuddies shoot traditional bows and all have killed a lot of deer with them...plus the one elk.  I like the light weight and purity of the longbows, and the fact that I can make one out of hickory, which is very common around here.  I no longer hunt.  My last bow (a recurve) is 45 pounds, or maybe 42 pounds...can't remember. 

    What a lot of folks don't know is archery in N America wasn't introduced until about 500 AD.  Before that, it was spears and the atlatl.  Sounds pretty unreal, but it isn't.  Also, many native tribes used the pinch release, and that necessarily reduced the pull weight to about 30-35#.  Yet they managed to survive and thrive.


    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    That is pretty crazy in the scope of human history to have such a seemingly primitive weapon show up so late in the game.  I'm not shocked that the natives were killing animals with 30-35# pull, but they also had limitless landscape and no closed seasons with which to deal.  Any herd that they could pattern or stalk, they could hunt.  I would love a taste of that freedom, if only for a week.

    I have the appeal for the primitive side or archery as you: light weight and simplicity (both in construction and material requirements).  I watched some show featuring a guy doing true primitive archery hunting on javelina.  This guys was literally shooting a handmade, wooden longbow with wooden arrows (feather fletched, of course), sinew string and knapped flint broadheads.  He made a kill ion one at about at about 5 yards.  That had to be pretty damned rewarding to pull off.

    As for my incoming bow, Black Widow actually pushed the completion estimate up for me to open the door for a chance to use it in Montana if the turkeys show up in numbers this coming Fall season.  Since it packs down so light and we're driving anyway, there would be no sense in not bringing it along just in case.  
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,346 Senior Member
    Six-Gun said:
    I had a mild panic attack last night after thinking about the imaginary Black Widow recurve that I did not order.  After looking up draw weight minimums across a few Western states, the reality is that several of them require 50 lb. draw weight minimum for elk and moose.  Now, I have no clue if I would ever end up hunting either of those species with a traditional bow, but the thought of having to exclude them for a mere 3 lb. difference was not sitting well.  Given that I shot 50 lb. models just fine in their demo room, the extra draw weight is not enough to fret.

    I called back and told them that if a bow were to ship to my house in 7-9 weeks, it would really be much better if it sat right at 50 lb. draw weight on the button as opposed to the 47 lbs. that we originally discussed.  They said it was no problem and altered the request accordingly.
    Your 47# @ 26'' will be over 50# @ the industry standard 28''..... Have BW write the 28'' #age....
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    That's true about the draw weight increase @ longer draw length.  That said, I honestly was regretting not going for 50 lb anyway after I shot the samples in the weight so well.  I was just being paranoid that age was going to get to me sooner rather than later and that I should go a little lighter.  Now, I realize that I can just order lighter limbs (significantly lighter) if and when that time comes.

    For the record, in a compound bow, I'm actually 27.5 (drawn to crease of the mouth), but I use a shorter anchor point when shooting a recurve (below the lip, on the side of the chin) resulting in a 26" draw.  The Black Widow rep said thar's a fairly common difference when going from compound with a release to a hand-drawn recurve.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,598 Senior Member
    Pretty darn cool stuff, Six!
    I haven't been in a bow shop since I walked out with my last Bowtech, 2011, I think.  Big box stores don't count.
    Like yours, it was so well tuned from the shop, no further adjustments required.
      I'm about due.
  • N454casullN454casull Member Posts: 638 Senior Member
    Six-Gun :Said

    The Hoyt is going to have the poundage dropped to 40 lbs. and setup as a bowfishing rig.  It's days are not done, which is pretty cool, since bowfishing is a new realm for me altogether.
    I honestly think bowfishing is the best practice you can do for bow hunting in general. Here you can take hundreds of shots in a day all instinctive. At actual living moving targets. Different ranges, different angles the works. And some fairly odd shooting positions. 

    I’m a firm believer even if you use pins on your hunting bow just the practice of pulling back to a solid anchor point and instinctively aiming helps a lot when lining up shots with sight pins. 

    After a long summer of bowfishing I really feel like I am a better wing shooter as well. The whole point and shoot thing. 
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,225 Senior Member
    Today, I strung my Bear Grizzley (from the past) and my 21st Century Super Nova.  At 45# and 50# respectively.  The bad news is I could barely pull either one of them.  The great news is the SN, which I'd left strung about 5 years ago, had corrected the limb twist that had developed.  Jim Ploen (who developed 21st Century) had formerly owned the SN bow, and it's very sweet and very fast.  And apparently self-correcting.

    I know this has nothing to do with compound bows, but it's good news so I had to share it.

    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,346 Senior Member
    I see people debating whether or not you should leave bows strung all of the time. My 1960 Bear Grizzly has been strung for the the last 12 years or so.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,346 Senior Member
    That is my only beef with BW. They are a great $800 bow......... that costs $1200.

    My brother and I used to go to a big traditional bow shoot in PA. They had a vendors area where you could take a bow out to the line and shoot. You get over $1000 for a bow with these custom builders and the exotic wood used is awesome.

    http://archeryfestivals.com/etar/
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    edited September 2018 #49
    jbohio said:
    Pretty darn cool stuff, Six!
    I haven't been in a bow shop since I walked out with my last Bowtech, 2011, I think.  Big box stores don't count.
    Like yours, it was so well tuned from the shop, no further adjustments required.
      I'm about due.
    Get on it, man, and post pics!  I don’t have the once-a-year update fever like some of the compound loonies that buy the latest flagship bow every year, but about every 5-7 years, the leap seems worth the cost when it comes to bow technologies.

    I honestly think bowfishing is the best practice you can do for bow hunting in general. Here you can take hundreds of shots in a day all instinctive. At actual living moving targets. Different ranges, different angles the works. And some fairly odd shooting positions.

    I’m a firm believer even if you use pins on your hunting bow just the practice of pulling back to a solid anchor point and instinctively aiming helps a lot when lining up shots with sight pins.

    After a long summer of bowfishing I really feel like I am a better wing shooter as well. The whole point and shoot thing. 
    I can believe that.  The challenge of a moving target can definitely give you a better appreciation of lead concepts and the added challenge of light refraction.  The lead piece assuredly meshes well with wing shooting, and I look forward to figuring it out with a much slower projectile.

    Gene L said:
    Today, I strung my Bear Grizzley (from the past) and my 21st Century Super Nova.  At 45# and 50# respectively.  The bad news is I could barely pull either one of them.  The great news is the SN, which I'd left strung about 5 years ago, had corrected the limb twist that had developed.  Jim Ploen (who developed 21st Century) had formerly owned the SN bow, and it's very sweet and very fast.  And apparently self-correcting.

    I know this has nothing to do with compound bows, but it's good news so I had to share it.

    I can respect your troubles drawing those bows, and am under no delusions about being in the same boat some day.  

    The Black Widow owner’s DVD has a whole section on field remedies for a twisted limb.  I didn’t even realize it was a thing, but it’s clearly an issue you need to know how to correct under any and all circumstances.  I’ll be watching that part a few more times.

    No sweat on bringing up traditional bows here.  We’ve clearly gone that route anyway, and the discussion is going to continue on my end a lot more extensively in a couple of months.  I’ll have a lot of questions for you long time traditional shooters.

    jbp-ohio said:
    That is my only beef with BW. They are a great $800 bow......... that costs $1200.

    My brother and I used to go to a big traditional bow shoot in PA. They had a vendors area where you could take a bow out to the line and shoot. You get over $1000 for a bow with these custom builders and the exotic wood used is awesome.

    http://archeryfestivals.com/etar/
    I gotta tell ya, the exotic wood samples they had at the Black Widow plant, like the kingwood used in my PCH-X, were pretty damned impressive.  Bubinga, ironwood, pau ferro, cocbolo, bocote and others all looked beautiful in the bow samples that I saw.  That, and the quality of the shooting experience with the bow I ultimately settled sold me.

    I should mention that, of the bigger custom shops, Bob Lee also had my attention.  Their basic designs are pretty gorgeous.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,225 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio said:
    I see people debating whether or not you should leave bows strung all of the time. My 1960 Bear Grizzly has been strung for the the last 12 years or so.
    I don't think it hurts to leave a glass bow strung, IF it's strung properly and the bow is stored properly...like being off the limb, such as hanging from a peg.  Mine was not properly stored, and the string slipped over to one side.  Hence the problem.  I can't remember how I left it strung, probably standing upright with the weight on the lower limb. I'mm very lucky it straightened out.

    Of course, you don't want to leave a wood bow strung, and even unstrung, not particularly a good idea to leave it standing up on the floor.  Back in the day (1900s or so) they made bow cabinets called "aschams" which had pegs in them to hang the bows from.  They were tall and very shallow, which drawers in the bottom for archery items.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,346 Senior Member
    More bow limbs are twisted from stringing over the leg than anything. Most bowyers give a free stringer and warnings to never string a bow without it.....
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,225 Senior Member
    jpb, that's what they say.  I haven't strung a bow over my leg in 50+ years.  Since I'm old and weak, I ordered a stringer yesterday. 
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    Gene - 

    You'll be happy that you did.  Way easier and, as discussed, much better for the bow.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • terminator012terminator012 Senior Member Posts: 3,930 Senior Member
    Not really on the original topic, but. How often should a compound bow be restrung. Mine is in a bow case and hasn't been shot in 3 years. That's how long it's been since I bow hunted. Went to get it out and shoot it some a few weeks ago but didn't because I wasn't sure the strings would still be safe. I miss shooting it even if it is just at targets in the yard.Got more time on my hands these days to do stuff like that. Should I shoot it or get it restrung??
  • terminator012terminator012 Senior Member Posts: 3,930 Senior Member
    Yep. I had a limb break on a Browning compound once. Wasn't a pleasant experience.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    It definitely is more related to number of shots when you shot regularly, and you can watch your string get thinner as you shoot it.  But, as cpj said: after 3 years, just get a new one.  Plastic does get weaker with time and exposure.  Not worth the risk.  
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,225 Senior Member
    I'm not a compound owner, but I don't see how unstringing a compound bow is going to hep, all other things being OK.  I think it's a matter of string aging or cable degrading rather than the limbs wearing out.  That's just me, though.  Like I said, I haven't owned a compound bow for over 40 years.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    edited September 2018 #58
    Yes, as cpj said, it’s about re-stringing intervals when it comes to compound bows.  

    The plastic string on a compound is extremely strong, but (as I understand it) it gets hot from friction caused by the plastic fiber weave within it rubbing together during shots.  That causes the fibers to degrade and the string to thin out over time.  Outside heat, UV exposure, and natural aging also cause material degradation.  String waxing before and after shooting sessions will help reduce friction wear, but it really won’t do much about the other factors.

    At the end of the day, if you aren’t sure if a compound string should be replaced...replace it. A broken string can be nasty on several levels.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    edited September 2018 #59
    Wambli Ska said:

    My Matthews is vintage 2000.  It was the top of the line back then and technology has absolutely leaped a few times since I bought it but I don’t get to use it often enough to be lusting after an upgrade, and unlike my beloved guns that appreciate in value damn bows depreciate like cars.  $1,000 bow...
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    Oh, yes.  Their depreciation is awful.  A $1300 Hoyt from 2013 is worth about $450 as a bare bow on resale.  Literally, it’s not worth selling if you can re-purpose it.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 4,001 Senior Member
    edited September 2018 #61
    I've had two different compound bow strings pop on their own while in their cases in storage.  I left the bows in their cases, laying flat on a shelf in the man cave.  Next time I got them out, the strings were broken.  After long term storage, definitely just get a new string.

    ETA - In both instances, neither of the bows were very old.  AAMOF, the Bear had a nearly new string on it when I stored it.  Still popped in the case.  Granted, my man cave is not a part of the house and therefore isn't temperature controlled unless I turn the AC or heater on in there, which I don't leave on all the time.  So temperature swings probably has a lot to do with it.  But, replacing the string after storage is just good insurance.  The alternative could definitely be very unpleasant.
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