Handgun Caliber "Debate"?

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Replies

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    LMLarsen said:
    Zee said:
    LMLarsen said:
    Bottom line: use whatever centerfire caliber you can reliably hit a 6” paper plate with three times from 15 yards in.
     Honest question, where did that standard come from? 
    My grey little head.  Works for me.
    👍🏻
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 2,062 Senior Member
    LMLarsen said:
    My point is just that confidence is a huge factor in whether your sidearm/caliber of choice is ultimately effective.
    Agreed. Practice makes confidence. Good hits on target first.

    Burn them to the ground if need be. When they're lying on their side bleeding out, they might come to the conclusion their actions were not a good idea.

    Thanks for clearing that up. You had me Buffalo'ed on that one also. :/
    Beware of false knowledge -- it is often more dangerous than ignorance.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,626 Senior Member
    The most important criteria for a carry gun is flexibility. Can you carry it without fear of an unintended reveal no matter how hard the wind blows or whether you're reaching, stretching, bending, sitting, twisting, etc.? Can your weapon be carried year 'round regardless of what you're wearing, or not wearing, without requiring any wardrobe accommodation whatsoever? Aside from going to an airport or a hospital or a courtroom, is there any characteristic of your gun that would make you consider leaving it home - even once? If so, you bought the wrong gun. Because if you need it and don't have it, it might as well be on the moon for all the good it will do you. 

    I have 2 carry guns, a NAA Mini Revolver in .22 Magnum, and a Taurus 738 TCP .380 ACP automatic. Because I pocket carry, there is never a question of being armed or not - I never, ever leave home without one or the other. I carry them because … I can! … requiring no heavy belt, special holster or rig, I never have to dress around them - just drop them and their holster in my pocket and go. Every day, every time.

    Caliber is of no importance to me. Today's SD ammo is all good - especially the .22 Magnum stuff. One-shot stops and other stats are meaningless. If I have to shoot to save my life, I'm not shooting just one round. Or two. Or three. Few antagonists remain committed to their original intent after being shot over, and over, and over, again. 
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    edited September 2018 #65
    I will not carry less that what is universally considered to be a standard issue duty carry sidearm cartridge. 

    Thats not the place I cut corners for comfort and convenience. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,267 Senior Member
    edited September 2018 #66
    By the time you get the little .22 SA revolver out of your pocket, cocked, aimed and fired, an even mildly competent bad guy can draw and have 2 or 3 shots off on you.  Drawing from a pocket is slow and slow in a gunfight is deadly.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    edited September 2018 #67
    BAMAAK said:
    By the time you get the little .22 SA revolver out of your pocket, cocked, aimed and fired, an evenly mildly competent bad guy can draw and have 2 or 3 shots off on you.  Drawing from a pocket is slow and slow in a gunfight is deadly.
    Hey, stop getting in Darwin’s way!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,421 Senior Member
    BAMAAK said:
    By the time you get the little .22 SA revolver out of your pocket, cocked, aimed and fired, an even mildly competent bad guy can draw and have 2 or 3 shots off on you.  Drawing from a pocket is slow and slow in a gunfight is deadly.

    Bad guy wouldn't need to shoot. He would be all over you with a knife or fists.
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    Especially if he noticed he’d been shot. 
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,082 Senior Member
    Shove it up his nose.
    Might clear his sinuses.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    The Alter of Stupidity demands the blood of its patrons from time to time. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,481 Senior Member
    At this rate Im half waiting for a post that says someone foolish enough to pack that small of a gun will surely shoot himself accidentally with it.
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,267 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    BAMAAK said:
    By the time you get the little .22 SA revolver out of your pocket, cocked, aimed and fired, an evenly mildly competent bad guy can draw and have 2 or 3 shots off on you.  Drawing from a pocket is slow and slow in a gunfight is deadly.
    Hey, stop getting in Darwin’s way!
    That right there is funny
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    At this rate Im half waiting for a post that says someone foolish enough to pack that small of a gun will surely shoot himself accidentally with it.
    And.......done. 

    😁
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,319 Senior Member
    At this rate Im half waiting for a post that says someone foolish enough to pack that small of a gun will surely shoot himself accidentally with it.
    You'll put your eye out!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,481 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    At this rate Im half waiting for a post that says someone foolish enough to pack that small of a gun will surely shoot himself accidentally with it.
    You'll put your eye out!
    Especially if it snags on your secret decoder ring during your draw.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,617 Senior Member
    horselips,

    I gave you a 'Disagree' on this one, but decided that wasn't quite strong enough in this case, since someone brand new to the forum might read your post and think that your comments on this subject are sensible. I'm no more of an expert on this subject than you are, but it is obvious to me that someone who praises the the NAA .22 and a Taurus .380 as great carry choices should not be taken seriously.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    I often carry a NAA .22 Magnum Mini revolver in my front pocket, I know it is no where close to being a good choice and many other guns are much better choices.

    I like having it in my shorts pocket bumming around the house, getting the mail and even nearby in the crapper concealed under a washcloth on a stand while doing my 3 Ss.............

    I wouldn't recommend one to anyone as a first choice for a CCW, but I often do carry it out and about, sometimes my Ruger LC9s.  I carry it to Dr office visits and it is never noticed during exams.

    Chance of doing a reload with one are nil unless you got a lot of time to do it.

    It is better than no gun at all, fer sure.

    If it gets me whacked they can put this epitaph on my headstone......'Here lies Big Chief who carried a Mini when he should have carried a Maxi'.  

    They are a well made novelty like gun with some practical applications in certain circumstances. Not for everyone, not intended to be.

    Some carry them as last ditch backup to their main CCW.  Places like a beach wearing swimming trunks and others requiring very light attire it may be an option.

    A .22 magnum from the lilliputian NAA revolvers are about as good as .22 LR fried from a rifle or a long barreled revolver, I have read.

    If someone asked me which to purchase.. a NAA .22 mag or a .380/9mm small sub-compact semi, I'd tell them get a centerfire pistol.

    But if they own other guns and want something different which has a lot of limitations in comparison to other larger calibers and with the understating they will be handicapped from the get-go in effectiveness/use (SA only) as a SD gun compared to bigger calibers, I'd tell them sure buy one.

    I have been thinking of getting a sub-compact .380 that is smaller than my LC9s and lighter, I dunno. Would be a much better CCW choice.

    Besides those NAA revolvers are just plain fun to shoot.

    Horse, given the choice between the Taurus and NAA..........I'd forfeit the gain in caliber and choose the NAA .22 Mag any day of the week. Call me prejudiced/biased against Taurus, because I am!      








     

    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,267 Senior Member
    Except with a .22or rifle you can actually hit something past 5 feet...... A bunch of times.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,082 Senior Member
    Please, don't bring facts into this discussion. 
    Overkill is underrated.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    I had some grips like these folders, but went back to the original ones and a DeSantis pocket holster.

    I might get some pebbled ones.

    I'm not arguing a .22 Mag fired from one is very effective/best as a SD weapon, it's not. It is what it is. I'll take one over no gun any day of the week. Each to his own.



    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    Well, I wouldn't recommend this, especially if the hog wasn't caged but he did it..........................so



    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    edited September 2018 #83
    I think we can all agree the .22 Mag is better than the .22 LR fired from the same NAA mini if you have the combo and extra cylinder to do it.

    It may be better than a .25 ACP with some loads......but the guns are different................you can pull the trigger a lot faster with a .25 ACP semi-auto than the SA on a Mini.


    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    Besides all the other drawbacks, these little revolvers take some training and study of the instructions/videos to carry them safely with 5 rounds loaded. It is a 'Trick' to get them in the safety notch the right way.

    I find myself going back and re-watching the videos if I haven't fired or unloaded/reloaded it for a few months.

    They ARE NOT for the new to guns persons and I would be hesitant to loan it even to some folks who are familiar with firearms.

    I'd much rather loan a loved one or friend a revolver or semi-pistol that I can be satisfied more confident they understand how they work a lot quicker.




    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,319 Senior Member
    Now don't y'all go puttin' down the NAA - I shot at the wooden toy soldier at the SE shoot with my .22s, I'm sure I got within 50 feet of hitting it!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    edited September 2018 #86
    I like the little b*u*g*g*e*r I own a .22/.22 Mag combo.................it is very well made, unique and hoot to shoot.

    Not fer everyone for a myriad of reasons...........again It Is What It Is and It Ain't What It Ain't. 


    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,267 Senior Member
    Hey if you're lucky, maybe the guy will catch fire from all the unburned powder coming out of the barrel.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 2,062 Senior Member
    .22 Mag
    2" barrel velocities using different weight ammo. (from 25 to 40 gr.)

    887 946 884 1085 895 899 853 843 962 1114 n/a

    .22 LR
    2" barrel velocities using different weight ammo. (from 27 to 60 gr.)

    861 860 974 945 875 846 856 862 882 663

    http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html

    Not awe-inspiring. Like Chief said, it is what it is. (Take careful notice -- choose wisely)

    If I have to resort to one of these, I'm gonna be feeling for my EDC knife at the same time.


    Beware of false knowledge -- it is often more dangerous than ignorance.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 2,062 Senior Member
    edited September 2018 #89
    No one in their "Right Mind" wants to stare down the business end of any firearm.

    Unfortunately, many BG don't fall into that category. A lot of crimes in our county are often done by Meth heads.

    Properly applied across the temple, up the nose, in the eye, through the throat (obstruct breathing) etc., it'll get the job done. But you gotta be pretty close to apply properly (to ensure a good hit on a likely moving target). Maybe even -- Knife close!

    That's typically closer than I'd like. :# But that's just me.

    I agree, they are cool little guns and better than just having a knife alone.
    Beware of false knowledge -- it is often more dangerous than ignorance.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,981 Senior Member
    I step away from this for a day or so and....................ENTERTAINMENT
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,613 Senior Member
    cpj said:
    The .22 magnum has SOME (a little) merit to carrying. It’s “big” enough to get a grip on, and the ammo will hit harder than the LR version. 
    The .22 version is a  whole lotta fun to fart around with, (wish I hadn’t sold mine) but they are the most worthless self defense firearm made. The exception would be the black powder version of that same gun. 
    Deep cover? Sure. Hide it in your ass for that matter. But having tucked away somewhere way out of the way, or have a FAR more effective weapon (knife) in a handier location? Gimme the knife. 

    I'm thinking outside the box here but I would wager  that I'm not the only person here that carries a gun and a knife.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
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