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FBI official says bureau leaked stories, then used them to get FISA warrants

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
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Replies

  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Under a logPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
    The UPPER ECHELON of the FBI is appearing more and more to be WAY more criminal than the people they are after.
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  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    Those poor falsely accused people. Its a travesty.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Kaniksu Nat'l Forest, IDPosts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Reminds me of FBI agents recruiting Muslim teens online. Chat them up about the evils of America, convince them to go all jihad, teach them how to build bombs, and then arrest them for terrorism. And finally releasing press reports telling us how they are doing such a great job protecting us. Meanwhile, real terrorists and school shooters go without investigation, even when evidence is present. 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • bisleybisley Senior Member East TexasPosts: 10,815 Senior Member
    I believe that there are a lot of dedicated and competent investigators at the FBI. But the leadership has always been political, because presidents are political and do their best to appoint directors with similar political beliefs. J. Edgar Hoover was a manipulator of politicians, and he ran the organization with very little effective oversight for 40 years, keeping blackmail files on every politician. Nixon was the first president who got to appoint a new director, and we know how he felt about dirty tricks in politics. Bill Clinton got secret files from the FBI on 900 of his 'political enemies,' and was never forced to return them or explain how he got them, or what he intended to do with them. Barack Obama infiltrated hundreds of leftist sympathizers into every federal bureaucracy, for 8 years. Donald Trump appointed an AG that was compromised from day one, and effectively turned the DOJ over to Rod Rosenstein, who has much to hide about his involvement in cover-ups during the Obama administration.

    Congressional oversight has become a bad joke, with the FBI hierarchy ignoring subpoenas and withholding any information that can damage the FBI. We have been in a Constitutional crisis for years, between the executive branch and the legislative branch, and it has come to a head now because a handful of conservative House members are trying to force an unwilling Congress to exert its power to rein in an agency that has gone way over the line to manipulate election outcomes and damage a sitting president.

    I think that the FBI has to be reorganized as a police organization, run by real cops - not Washington lawyers, and that they have to be forced to comply with oversight by a commission whose members have never held political office, and can never run for political office, once they accept the position as commissioners. One from each state would be about right.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,750 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    Reminds me of FBI agents recruiting Muslim teens online. Chat them up about the evils of America, convince them to go all jihad, teach them how to build bombs, and then arrest them for terrorism. And finally releasing press reports telling us how they are doing such a great job protecting us. Meanwhile, real terrorists and school shooters go without investigation, even when evidence is present. 
    You've just described the process of entrapment.  Can't prosecute entrapped perps.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    bisley said:
    I believe that there are a lot of dedicated and competent investigators at the FBI. But the leadership has always been political, because presidents are political and do their best to appoint directors with similar political beliefs. J. Edgar Hoover was a manipulator of politicians, and he ran the organization with very little effective oversight for 40 years, keeping blackmail files on every politician. Nixon was the first president who got to appoint a new director, and we know how he felt about dirty tricks in politics. Bill Clinton got secret files from the FBI on 900 of his 'political enemies,' and was never forced to return them or explain how he got them, or what he intended to do with them. Barack Obama infiltrated hundreds of leftist sympathizers into every federal bureaucracy, for 8 years. Donald Trump appointed an AG that was compromised from day one, and effectively turned the DOJ over to Rod Rosenstein, who has much to hide about his involvement in cover-ups during the Obama administration.

    Congressional oversight has become a bad joke, with the FBI hierarchy ignoring subpoenas and withholding any information that can damage the FBI. We have been in a Constitutional crisis for years, between the executive branch and the legislative branch, and it has come to a head now because a handful of conservative House members are trying to force an unwilling Congress to exert its power to rein in an agency that has gone way over the line to manipulate election outcomes and damage a sitting president.

    I think that the FBI has to be reorganized as a police organization, run by real cops - not Washington lawyers, and that they have to be forced to comply with oversight by a commission whose members have never held political office, and can never run for political office, once they accept the position as commissioners. One from each state would be about right.

    The military is quite similar. I have often told people that many officers achieving the grade of about O-5 stop being soldiers and become politicians.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Kaniksu Nat'l Forest, IDPosts: 5,486 Senior Member
    edited September 2018 #8
    Gene L said:
    CaliFFL said:
    Reminds me of FBI agents recruiting Muslim teens online. Chat them up about the evils of America, convince them to go all jihad, teach them how to build bombs, and then arrest them for terrorism. And finally releasing press reports telling us how they are doing such a great job protecting us. Meanwhile, real terrorists and school shooters go without investigation, even when evidence is present. 
    You've just described the process of entrapment.  Can't prosecute entrapped perps.

    Yes, I described entrapment. And they do prosecute. 

    https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-is-manufacturing-terrorism-cases-2016-6



    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    Gene L said:
    CaliFFL said:
    Reminds me of FBI agents recruiting Muslim teens online. Chat them up about the evils of America, convince them to go all jihad, teach them how to build bombs, and then arrest them for terrorism. And finally releasing press reports telling us how they are doing such a great job protecting us. Meanwhile, real terrorists and school shooters go without investigation, even when evidence is present. 
    You've just described the process of entrapment.  Can't prosecute entrapped perps.

    Yes, I described entrapment. And they do prosecute. 

    https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-is-manufacturing-terrorism-cases-2016-6




    They did it in Portland, Oregon a few years ago. I will see if I can dig up an old news article.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member

    I found a few articles. Like this one they also tap danced around the classic entrapment by FBI "operatives" posing as fellow experienced terrorists.

     

    https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fbi_thwarts_terrorist_bombing.html


  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    Mohamed Mohamud was convicted and sentenced to 30 years in a federal penitentiary
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Kaniksu Nat'l Forest, IDPosts: 5,486 Senior Member

    Google "Sami Osmakac" 

    Some of the FBI's shadiest work. 


    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,750 Senior Member
    Pretty clear that you don't understand the legal definition of entrapment. 
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,750 Senior Member
    "During the trial, Osmakac's defense argued that the FBI took advantage of his radical Islamic beliefs and mental illness to entrap him into trying to commit a crime. However, entrapment is "not just providing the opportunity...[the defense] have to show the government pressured or induced or actually created the actual intent to commit the crime". On November 5, 2014, Osmakac was sentenced to 40 years in prison. The case is currently under appeal"
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,750 Senior Member
    Pretty clear here that Cali doesn't understand the legal definition of entrapment.  I do, as it's a common defense in just about all undercover operations.  The weakness of the defense is the defense must admit to all elements of the crime, but claim the government's participant role was to put the idea of the crime into the perp's mind.  Which is why it's pretty unsuccessful as a defense.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Kaniksu Nat'l Forest, IDPosts: 5,486 Senior Member
    However, entrapment is "not just providing the opportunity...[the defense] have to show the government pressured or induced or actually created the actual intent to commit the crime"

    So the defense has to prove something? When did that begin?

    https://theintercept.com/2015/03/16/howthefbicreatedaterrorist/


    Read the transcripts and watch the video. The FBI supplied the dummy vest, had a paid informant coax him, gave him money to buy weapons from another FBI agent, and even supplied the cash for a taxi to carry out the FBI's plan. I guess the paid informant isn't technically FBI so the entire operation wasn't "the government pressuring him to do anything". Just because the FBI says it isn't entrapment, doesn't make it reality. 

    Bottom line: Could he have committed any terrorist act without the aid/pressure of the FBI and its paid informant? 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,750 Senior Member
    In entrapment defenses, the burden of proof is on the defense, since they admit to all elements of the crime. The plea is Guilty but entrapped.   You need to google "Entrapment defense."  At any rate, the jury didn't buy the entrapment defense.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
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