Florida city commissioner shoots, kills alleged shoplifter

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Replies

  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,985 Senior Member
    He was just arrested, no charges announced yet.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,985 Senior Member
    2nd degree murder.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,985 Senior Member
    No bond.  Some kinda hearing tomorrow.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,985 Senior Member
    From snippets of the DA at a news conference, they sent it to a grand jury who indicted him. He also said it was not a SYG case.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,067 Senior Member
    About what I figured.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,945 Senior Member
    edited October 2018 #37
    No forcible felony there - looks like theft to me, and the thief isn't breaking out the hatchet to aid his escape.  He DOES get an extra handout of Darwin points for trying to bug out past the point of clearly having lost the chance to do so.  

    Under what Wambli's posting to be the law, I'd say the leg the shopowner is standing on is a little wobbly (though I'd pin a medal on him myself).  The legal wrangling point (as I see it) is the guy is stealing something that can easily be construed as a weapon.  What did the thief intend to do with this weapon?  That could be the shopowner's "reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony" right there.  I very much doubt he was needing something to cut kindling with on a camping trip with his kids. The investigation into the corpse's history may illuminate much.  

    If our city limits signs simply said "Welcome to Mayberry.  Lethal Force is Authorized", we'd have a lot fewer instances like this to question in the first place.  A whole lot of encouraging what we tolerate going on in this world.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,985 Senior Member
    This make 3 cases in FLA I know of where folks made a bad decision to shoot. Seems some think having a CCW permit gives them a license to kill...........it does not.

    OK the dude was a thief..........a shoplifter......but he could have easily just called 911..............the dude was leaving his store. I believe his father was in there with him earlier and was pushing a shopping cart, how hard would they have been for the cops to find him?

    You can't shoot shoplifters as much as many say they deserve it.

    The handicapped parking case.

    The retired police captain who killed a man in a movie theater over his wife's cell phone/texting because the husband threw popcorn at him after an argument ensued.

    Now this.  In my mind this gives us all a bad name and only adds fuel to the gun grabbers argument about FLAs SYG/CCW laws.

    If a life is not threatened and some overt act where your life/family member/ innocent bystanders life is in imminent is in danger, don't shoot.

    I honestly think many feel empowered because they have a CCW to be the judge/jury/executioner. Thank God that is a small percentage.

    I hope none of us are ever placed in that situation and if we are we make the right decision. 

    If you think about it, you probably have met a few Jackass CCW holders in the LGS/on the range with that attitude and can't wait to put distance between them and yourselves.

    Look at the people who are licensed to drive who drive like maniacs. Sure they met the requirements to legally drive as have CCW holders (albeit more stringent) did to get a permit. No way to measure what their future behavior will be. 

    This is not Big Chiefs 'Zumbo Moment' as I am 100% for folks to legally carry (I do). It just seems too many incidents like these are plastered all over the news as infrequent as they are, which gives the public a lopsided take on law abiding CCW holders.

    In fact, only a very small % of CCW ever get theirs revoked.

    I cringe every time another case pops up, though.

     
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,552 Senior Member
    In my neck of the woods, the store owner would likely walk, assuming that the obligatory grand jury would even have indicted him. Most folks who will actually serve on a jury, around here, would likely not have shot the guy, in my opinion. I seriously doubt that I would have. But, thieves are dealt with harshly, here, and I doubt that most would vote for convicting the store owner, without compelling evidence that it was cold-blooded murder.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,067 Senior Member
    bisley said:
    In my neck of the woods, the store owner would likely walk, assuming that the obligatory grand jury would even have indicted him. Most folks who will actually serve on a jury, around here, would likely not have shot the guy, in my opinion. I seriously doubt that I would have. But, thieves are dealt with harshly, here, and I doubt that most would vote for convicting the store owner, without compelling evidence that it was cold-blooded murder.
    He wasn't indicted for cold blooded murder (First degree) but for Second degree. 
    Anyone who thinks killing a shoplifter is OK, is nuts. It's not even a felony. 
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,267 Senior Member
    I'd like to know what the shooter was thinking. In an obvious premeditated lethal crime, I would really not be curious. But in a situation of basically a good citizen making a bad decision, I am curious.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,354 Senior Member
    Gene L said: you'll
    bisley said:
    In my neck of the woods, the store owner would likely walk, assuming that the obligatory grand jury would even have indicted him. Most folks who will actually serve on a jury, around here, would likely not have shot the guy, in my opinion. I seriously doubt that I would have. But, thieves are dealt with harshly, here, and I doubt that most would vote for convicting the store owner, without compelling evidence that it was cold-blooded murder.
    He wasn't indicted for cold blooded murder (First degree) but for Second degree. 
    Anyone who thinks killing a shoplifter is OK, is nuts. It's not even a felony. 
    He didn't kill a shoplifter, he shot a guy with a weapon in his hand.  Literally.  In his hand.  You can question trying to stop the guy, but the video VERY CLEARLY shows the tomahawk (like the "tactical" kind) in his right hand as the dude is tugging on his shirt.  If the dirtbag drops the 'hawk and proceeds to leave, he is a "shoplifter".  With the 'hawk in hand, he is an assailant, plain and simple.  Bought and paid for, in this case.  Life is tough, the room temperature dirtbag made it tougher by trying to steal from a man who was prepared to keep him from doing so.  

    Would I have done the same?  Who knows?  Probably not, but then again... maybe.  Watching the video, the shop owner was WAY too close to a guy with an edged weapon, and grappling while holding a drawn gun probably should be avoided whenever possible.  That is the sum extent of my criticism for this shoot.  

    My prediction is acquittal.  The DA likely knows this, but will push the issue in the interest of self advancement and will likely decry the injustice of it all upon announcement of the verdict. 
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,067 Senior Member
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,067 Senior Member
    timc said:
    Right or wrong the thief deserved it $1 to $10,000,000. People who think they can take what doesn’t belong to them deserve what they get. Better not have me on that jury, he will walk!
    That's called jury nullification.  He would be re-tried.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,652 Senior Member
    I don't get what the big deal is in shooting a thief.  It will definitely curtail the practice of stealing.  A lot of cancer in today's society and the only way to stop it is to eradicate it.  I wish more states had the Texas mentality and more people like Joe Horn
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,462 Senior Member
    Buford said:
    I don't get what the big deal is in shooting a thief.  It will definitely curtail the practice of stealing.  A lot of cancer in today's society and the only way to stop it is to eradicate it.  I wish more states had the Texas mentality and more people like Joe Horn
    A lot of police departments won't even investigate a theft anymore. My step son had his motorcycle stolen last April. They just called him yesterday saying they found it in someones yard...... In September!

    No arrests made. Can't prove the home owner knew there was a stripped motorcycle in his yard. 4 blocks from where it was stolen.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
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