Vietnam War hero sentenced to 7 years for decades-old rifle purchase

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,521 Senior Member

While I sorta feel sorry for him and appreciate his service, he stepped on it and paid the price.


It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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Replies

  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,521 Senior Member
    I wouldn't just walk away from a gun sale like that, I'd run.................
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Billy_BuddBilly_Budd Posts: 90 Member
    Seems like a nightmare taken straight from the book "Unintended Consequences." 
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,045 Senior Member
    The ATF  doesn't have a sense of humor
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 23,920 Senior Member
    Pretty dumb on his part. Since he acquired it in the early 1980s it was still legal to purchase a select fire M14 by paying the $200 tax. They were available for sale back then. Buying one from a shady guy that had removed the serial number was pretty stoopid. The NFA law requiring a $200 tax for full autos, suppressors, and certain other firearms was even more stoopid. Your government at work; bending folk over and driving them home, one at a time.
    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



  • 1hogfan831hogfan83 Member Posts: 180 Member
    I don't know what would be more alarming, the scratched off serial # or automatic rifle.  He's a decorated combat veteran and a POW.  If they didn't take that into consideration they should have.  I may have missed it in the reading.  I didn't watch the video.  7 years seems a little steep when Cosby drugs and rapes women to get the same sentence at a country club.  
    "Well he shoulda armed him self" William Munney-Unforgiven"
    "You believe there is one God, that is good, even the demons believe and shudder in fear" James 2:19
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 38,852 Senior Member
    1hogfan83 said:
    I don't know what would be more alarming, the scratched off serial # or automatic rifle.  He's a decorated combat veteran and a POW.  If they didn't take that into consideration they should have.  I may have missed it in the reading.  I didn't watch the video.  7 years seems a little steep when Cosby drugs and rapes women to get the same sentence at a country club.  
    Decorated combat veteran or the man who cured cancer, in my opinion EVERYONE is subject to the laws of this country. Period. I don’t give two **** if they saved the president and the mayors daughter. NO ONE should be above the law. 
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • Old RonOld Ron Senior Member Posts: 2,996 Senior Member
    No matter what our past is .... we all know right from wrong .
    ( unless there is brain damage  ) Problem is that if you break the law what happens depends a lot on who you are & how much money you have to defend yourself with . About like doctors that can save you as long as the insurance pays .... then it's well that's all we can do & you are still sick & to boot now broke .
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,310 Senior Member
    cpj said:
    1hogfan83 said:
    I don't know what would be more alarming, the scratched off serial # or automatic rifle.  He's a decorated combat veteran and a POW.  If they didn't take that into consideration they should have.  I may have missed it in the reading.  I didn't watch the video.  7 years seems a little steep when Cosby drugs and rapes women to get the same sentence at a country club.  
    Decorated combat veteran or the man who cured cancer, in my opinion EVERYONE is subject to the laws of this country. Period. I don’t give two **** if they saved the president and the mayors daughter. NO ONE should be above the law. 
    I agree no one should be above the law, but 7 years for a victimless crime is ridiculous. 

    I'm also a little stunned that 1hogfan83 would be "alarmed" that someone would deface their own property or possess an automatic weapon. 

    It is possible our grandkids will view semiautos in the same manner. 

    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • Ken_S_LaTransKen_S_LaTrans Posts: 108 Member
    That he is a VietNam veteran and a former POW are not even germane to the fact that he knowingly committed a federal offense, to wit the illegal purchase and possession of an unregistered and altered (serial number) NFA weapon. 

    "**** it.  I know it's illegal.  I know it's wrong.  I know there are/will be consequences if I am caught...but I'm gonna do it anyway"

    Then, he gets caught

    "But I am a VietNam vet and I was a POW...it ain't my fault"

    Add to that the incredible stupidity of NOT getting rid of it in the intervening years between purchase and getting caught when I am sure there might have been moments of clarity that would lead him to think....I have an angle grinder and a deep river near by, and I can make this whole thing disappear...and he ignored that smart inner voice.   

    How does his veteran status make him special?  I am not seeing the connection other than it is a lot like the snowflake and their use of any excuse to avoid responsibility for any dumb or illegal decision they make.  I am sorry.  I am not seeing the connection.

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.




    ONLY THE INFERIOR CRY FOR EQUALITY
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 580 Senior Member
    Victimless crime, yet again.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,345 Senior Member
    While legal to own, I spent a few minutes this morning trying to understand Michigan law regarding transporting a 4.5' long double edged blade-- a freaking Scottish claymore. It wouldn't fit in the trunk to be considered inaccessible to the car occupant, so it had to be transported inside the car. The solution was to place it in a box or to wrap it in a blanket and tie it in that so there was no doubt a 4'6.5" sword would be useable in a Chevy Aveo (supcompact car).

    My son and his sword, made it safely to his friends' houses where they killed the living hell out of a couple of watermelons and several pumpkins.

    Anyway, when you are on the edge...and my son is... you better damn well know the law. This guy knew better. I agree that the law is silly and has no purpose. I do not agree with that law and disagree with lots of laws like that.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 17,638 Senior Member
    edited October 22 #13
    Victimless crime, yet again.
    Remember, we are a nation of LAWS, not of ETHICS - or "Morality" as Jerm would prefer me to say. This shows the inherent evil of both laws and governments - an unfortunately necessary evil, of course, but evil all the same. There are no easy answers...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,345 Senior Member
    edited October 22 #14
    zorba said:
    Victimless crime, yet again.
    Remember, we are a nation of LAWS, not of ETHICS - or "Morality" as Jerm would prefer me to say. This shows the inherent evil of both laws and governments - an unfortunately necessary evil, of course, but evil all the same. There are no easy answers...
    Laws are coded ethics. Morals are folk rules. A guy making moonshine is ethically and lawfully wrong, but may not be morally wrong.
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 580 Senior Member
    I hate conforming to non essential laws such as that. If I were that guy, I’d have offed myself and left a note telling the prosecutor to go **** themself.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,970 Senior Member
    I hate conforming to non essential laws such as that. If I were that guy, I’d have offed myself and left a note telling the prosecutor to go **** themself.
    Yeah. That’ll teach’em!  Save the tax payer some cash and avoid responsibility for your actions. Win/Win!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 580 Senior Member
    Sorry that I don’t bend over and accept **** unconstitutional laws just because it’s convenient.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,970 Senior Member
    edited October 22 #18
    I support your right to off yourself and save me some cash. 

    God Bless America!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,345 Senior Member


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,345 Senior Member


  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 580 Senior Member
    The NFA was enacted before we were born. Why should folks follow something that they had no say in? When someone asks me to jump, I don’t ask how high. I ask “why”? It all goes back to that, “If I’m not bothering or harming anyone else”.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,345 Senior Member
    The NFA was enacted before we were born. Why should folks follow something that they had no say in? When someone asks me to jump, I don’t ask how high. I ask “why”? It all goes back to that, “If I’m not bothering or harming anyone else”.
    The United States Constitution was ratified well before we were born.
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 580 Senior Member
    Touché, but I see a difference in bare bones laws to keep order and additional laws that contradict those bare bones laws, especially ones that serve as extortion.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,466 Senior Member
    The NFA exists due to depression era media frenzy regarding an exaggerated number of gangsters with an exaggerated number of automatic weapons. Much like today. Fear sells is nothing new. Since the gangsters were criminals they stole most of their automatic weapons from police and National Guard installations rather than walk into a hardware store lay down a rather large amount of cash and legally walk out with a new Thompson SMG. The NFA restricted many, many more law abiding citizens rights than actually keeping automatic weapons out of the criminal's hands. Sound familiar?
  • Billy_BuddBilly_Budd Posts: 90 Member
    Touché, but I see a difference in bare bones laws to keep order and additional laws that contradict those bare bones laws, especially ones that serve as extortion.

    CaliFFL said:


    I agree no one should be above the law, but 7 years for a victimless crime is ridiculous. 

    I'm also a little stunned that 1hogfan83 would be "alarmed" that someone would deface their own property or possess an automatic weapon. 

    It is possible our grandkids will view semiautos in the same manner.


    Our government doesn't trust its own citizens with automatic firearms but will equip a foreign nation with a fully armed F-16. 
  • das68das68 Posts: 149 Member
    edited October 23 #26
    Our government doesn't trust its own citizens with automatic firearms but will equip a foreign nation with a fully armed F-16. 
    What is your view on them acquiring F-35B's?
    We will be doing our own arming.

    History is littered with wars which everybody knew would never happen.

    Enoch Powell



     










  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 23,920 Senior Member
    I guess I wonder why people do things too much when an alternate route is available. Like all through the mid 1960s up to the misnamed Firearms Owners Protection Act passed, you could go to gun shows and pick up parts for ARs and M14s, and they were as common as peanuts at a circus. The select fire parts were available and legal to own, but not to assemble on a rifle.(giggle, giggle) And lots of folks bought those parts. The M14 trigger group  in semi auto and select fire (semi-full auto) was all you needed for the M14, and a little whittling on the stock to accommodate the select lever.

    Which is where I start wondering. Why would anyone buy a jacked up defaced SN select fire M14 when, AT THE TIME, you could have one and not raise any eyebrows. Just buy the semi, go to a gun show and buy the select fire trigger group, and keep your cake hole shut.

    What I just described was not legal, probably not ethical, but it was morally in line with the 2nd Amendment as written and understood by the folks that wrote that Constitution thing.
    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 2,284 Senior Member
    I was once offered the private sale of a MAC 380 with no numbers. I declined well in full retreat.

    Judge and prosecutors have freedom of discretion. No reason this man's service record couldn't be relevant to their application of said discretion.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 23,920 Senior Member
    Actually, Early, the JURY has the real discretion. It's called jury nullification. Back in the bad old days before judges usurped the powers of the jury, the jury was charged by the judge with finding a verdict "on the facts AND the law". If a law was unjust the jury just came back with a Not Guilty verdict. Go to a criminal trial now and listen to the judge ORDER the jury as to HOW they MUST come to a verdict. The jury still has the power of nullification, they're just too dumbed down to know that the power exists.

    I may be a Deplorable, but at least I'm not a Liberal!!!



  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,289 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    . The select fire parts were available and legal to own, but not to assemble on a rifle.(giggle, giggle) 
    Unless you happen to have a firearm on your premisis that those full auto parts will fit in...for example...an AR auto sear and an AR rifle in the house...plenty of folks have been ATF'd for that.
    Doesn't matter whether you have assembled the two parts into an FA firearm or not
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,310 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    Actually, Early, the JURY has the real discretion. It's called jury nullification. Back in the bad old days before judges usurped the powers of the jury, the jury was charged by the judge with finding a verdict "on the facts AND the law". If a law was unjust the jury just came back with a Not Guilty verdict. Go to a criminal trial now and listen to the judge ORDER the jury as to HOW they MUST come to a verdict. The jury still has the power of nullification, they're just too dumbed down to know that the power exists.

    The last time I was called for jury duty, the judge specifically said, "Anyone who thinks the law is unjust may be excused." I assume this meant if you kept quiet, made the jury, and argued in the jury room that the law was unjust, you were setting yourself up for a contempt charge. This instruction (in my opinion) destroys nullification. 
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
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