EDC With a Slide Mounted MRDS - Conceal-ability

shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior MemberPosts: 5,468 Senior Member
A few months ago I inquired here about using a slide mounted MRDS on an EDC rig. Many people here, for numerous good reasons, were opposed to the idea. Nonetheless, I'm stubborn, and may have been seeking some confirmation bias. Anyway, I ponied up for a second slide for my Glock 19 that had been milled for a RMR, and mounted an RM06. Since then, as discussed in the General Shooting section, I also threw some other upgrades into my EDC.

This thread, however, is not about that. Something that has been brought up numerous times about the MRDS on an EDC is the added bulk. I will say unequivocally, in my situation, it is a non issue. I will demonstrate below:

Gun: Glock 19, with and without RMR
Holster: Raven Concealment Eidelon
Carry Method: AIWB (1 o'clock, roughly) under a semi-fitted t shirt as a cover garment.

Example 1, carry without the RMR is on the left, and with the RMR is on the right:



There's a slight bulge created by the butt of the gun and the rearward portion of the slide, but not much. I'd venture to guess that 95% of casual observers wouldn't notice it, and those that could figure out what it is wouldn't care. My point, however, is that the RMR adds NOTHING to the printing of the gun. I could see this changing if I was using a closed emitter optic such as the new Aimpoint ACRO, but the typical MRDS design presents no issues here.

Example 2, space on the belt part 1 (go ahead and make fun of my belly fat):



As you can see, the RMR occupies space left vacant by a gap between the belt, body, and holster.

Example 2, space occupied by RMR (yes that's Wal Mart underwear):



Again, it fills a space that was previously empty anyway.

Just food for thought. In my mind there are obvious advantages and disadvantages to the MRDS (cost being a large one). Critics on both sides make valid points. However, for typical IWB or AIWB with a Glock 19 sized handgun, I don't think there are any issues whatsoever with conceal-ability. Your mileage may vary, especially if you tend to carry smaller handguns where the MRDS would add a significant more percentage to the space filled.
- I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
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Replies

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 4,230 Senior Member
    As long as the unit is durable enough to sustain trauma without damage.

    Optical sights have more than proven their worth as well as their reliability.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    What kind of confrontation are you equipping yourself for? Self-defense means shooting a mugger who's right in your face, a home invader across a room, or at most, a carjacker no further away than the length of your car. For this you need a red dot sight? 

    You shoot a bad guy that the local assistant district attorney thinks wasn't close enough to be an immediate threat and you'll end up in the deepest, darkest dungeon he can find.   
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,468 Senior Member
    cpj said:
    horselips said:
    What kind of confrontation are you equipping yourself for? Self-defense means shooting a mugger who's right in your face, a home invader across a room, or at most, a carjacker no further away than the length of your car. For this you need a red dot sight? 

    You shoot a bad guy that the local assistant district attorney thinks wasn't close enough to be an immediate threat and you'll end up in the deepest, darkest dungeon he can find.   
    Bull ****. 

    “I installed this optic because I am a responsible gun owner, and want to ensure only people trying to do me harm are the ones who would get hit. I am doing all I can to protect innocent bystanders. “


    See Pee Jay beat me to it. 

    I'm sure the next thing you're going to do is claim that the pistol courses I've taken are a waste because someone in court will try to use them against me. In the unlikely and unfortunate event that I have to use my pistol in self defense, bring it on. Theoretically spending some more court time explaining the training courses I've taken and the (more and more widely in use) sighting system that I use is a fair trade for controlling every variable I possibly can to not end up taking out multiple bystanders like the NYPD did that one time. 
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,251 Senior Member
    Consider the source. 😒
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • 41magnut41magnut Senior Member Posts: 1,165 Senior Member
    horselips said:
    What kind of confrontation are you equipping yourself for? Self-defense means shooting a mugger who's right in your face, a home invader across a room, or at most, a carjacker no further away than the length of your car. For this you need a red dot sight? 

    You shoot a bad guy that the local assistant district attorney thinks wasn't close enough to be an immediate threat and you'll end up in the deepest, darkest dungeon he can find.   
    So, by your logic one should never practice with your carry piece as this would prove intent?
    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen :iwo:
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,251 Senior Member
    Your first mistake is assuming their is “logic” in anything he posts. The second is considering it. 

    😁
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    edited October 2018 #8
    I was not speaking of possession, practice or intent. I was speaking of engaging  someone carrying out a felonious attack on you with lethal force. A lot of prosecutors in a lot of jurisdictions will look for any excuse to charge the victim - you - if the circumstances of your action aren't perfect. 


    A red dot sight is for improved accuracy over iron sights. Accuracy should not be an issue at distances from point blank to under 20 feet.

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,372 Senior Member
    It's also hard to mount an RDS on a .22 mini revolver, let alone pocket carry it...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,550 Senior Member
    If the DA or other authorities are the type to attempt to convict somebody who defended against an attack, those authorities aren't going to give a rat's backside whether or not your means of defense had an optic sight mounted.  IOW, they're coming after you, regardless.  So long as you aren't splitting bullets with a heated knife blade and putting garlic in HP cavities, it'll merely be a witch hunt.  They'll mention the sight - and the training - AND the fact that you have an "arsenal" at your "compound"... but they're going to do that anyway.  
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,434 Senior Member
    What CGG said :sunglasses:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,550 Senior Member
    edited November 2018 #12
    Now, as far as the OP goes, that sight obviously doesn't take up much space that was already taken up by something else, so, if it does it's job, it's a handy thing to have.  Looks like a good piece of kit. 
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • dlddld Member Posts: 383 Member
    It's also hard to mount an RDS on a .22 mini revolver, let alone pocket carry it...



  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,286 Senior Member
    Good to see that spatially at least, it works for that application

    So here's my challenge for you SS3:

    Treat that thing not like a serious shooter evaluating gear that you are, but rather like the incidental carry permit holder who is looking for a crutch to prop up poor shooting technique.  You know. . . the guy who doesn't understand that guns sometimes need to be cleaned even if they haven't been shot, and more often than not, won't clean them even if they have been.

    See how much shirt lint you get on that sight's window in a two week period of concealed carry.  See what sweat does to it.  See if it fogs up on a humid day coming out of an air-conditioned house or car - just like my glasses do.  See what greasy fingerprints do for your sight picture. Spray some water droplets on it to simulate rain.  See if you aren't constantly checking on it due to concerns about the power supply.

    I'm trying REALLY HARD not to be "that old guy" with regards to new tech, but I can't escape the logic that:

    1.  It doesn't need to be all that bitchin' to connect with what is in all likelihood less than a five yard shot.

    2.  My WWI and WWII handguns are all still working on their first set of sight batteries and some have probably been exposed to conditions that would turn a Trijicon engineer's hair white.

    I ask this of you because you get it.  Give that whizzbang a fair shake and see if it actually does anything for you to make it worth dealing with the above.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    horselips said:

    A red dot sight is for improved accuracy over iron sights. Accuracy should not be an issue at distances from point blank to under 20 feet.

    I can NOT believe I just read that, even after the third time I read it to make sure you wrote exactly what I read...

    Ooooooooooh, I just got it.  You used to write training manuals for the NYC police dept right?

    -----------------------------------

    Read it a 4th time then. As for NYPD, somebody had to teach those guys to shoot targets an arm's length away. 

    The only point I was awkwardly trying to make is that in a 'civilian' self-defense shooting, the bad guy had better be close enough to pose an immediate threat to life or limb or your local Assistant District Attorney will eat your lunch. If you can't hit a human sized target that close, and probably moving towards you - getting even closer - without a MRDS.....
    As mere citizens, we don't get to play "SWAT" and engage bad guys at distance. Even police shootings are coming under severe Monday-morning quarterbacking review nowadays - much more so than just a few years ago. We've seen D.A.s in some big cities turning on their own officers - imagine how they'll treat a citizen who shoots someone 50 feet away. The bad guy a civilian shoots had better be just about on top of him, or there had better be a busload of witnesses willing to come forward and justify his use of lethal force.    

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,251 Senior Member
    So, what is a CCW individual to do in an active shooter scenario at any number of public places when the shooter is beyond 50 feet?

    ”Oops!  Out of legal range. Guess I’ll run away. Can’t play SWAT. You piss ants without a weapon are on your own. I got mine!  Sucks to be you!  Bye!”
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,121 Senior Member
    edited November 2018 #17
    Zee said:
    So, what is a CCW individual to do in an active shooter scenario at any number of public places when the shooter is beyond 50 feet?

    ”Oops!  Out of legal range. Guess I’ll run away. Can’t play SWAT. You piss ants without a weapon are on your own. I got mine!  Sucks to be you!  Bye!”
    This.  You need to be equipped to handle whatever may happen.  You don't get to choose.  The better or more varied my skillset, the better off I am and those who I am protecting.  I have always encouraged shooters and hunters to practice beyond what they think is their max distance.  I also encourage them to practice from a variety of positions.  Think and practice outside the box.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,251 Senior Member
    edited November 2018 #18
    Zee said:
    So, what is a CCW individual to do in an active shooter scenario at any number of public places when the shooter is beyond 50 feet?

    ”Oops!  Out of legal range. Guess I’ll run away. Can’t play SWAT. You piss ants without a weapon are on your own. I got mine!  Sucks to be you!  Bye!”
    This.  You need to be equipped to handle whatever may happen.
    Well, I don’t know that I can walk around and be prepared for WHATEVER may happen. 

    I mean, had I been walking the street during the California bank robbery back in the 90s, my normal CCW would not have been the best tool for the job. But, it would have been    better than nothing. 

    I prefer to look at things in two perspectives. 

    1) What is the most likely course of action.
    (what is the most realistic encounter)

    2) What is the most dangerous course of action.  (what is the most dangerous encounter)

    Both have to be realistic. And folks, an active shooter is becoming more and more realistic. 

    So, when I walk out my door, I try to be prepared for both. 

    Outside of the most likely and most dangerous REALISTIC encounters I expect to come up against, I should be relatively prepared and practiced. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,121 Senior Member
     Thank you for correcting  my statement, I should’ve chosen better words 
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,251 Senior Member
    It wasn’t a correction. More of a refinement. 

    👍🏻
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,468 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    Good to see that spatially at least, it works for that application

    So here's my challenge for you SS3:

    Treat that thing not like a serious shooter evaluating gear that you are, but rather like the incidental carry permit holder who is looking for a crutch to prop up poor shooting technique. ... (etc et all)

    I ask this of you because you get it.  Give that whizzbang a fair shake and see if it actually does anything for you to make it worth dealing with the above.
    Will do, and working on it. I haven't deliberately torture tested the unit but I'm not babying it either.

    Truth be told, I still haven't nailed down picking up the dot on initial presentation so I'm still a little hesitant to EDC it.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    cpj said:
    Guys. Again. 
    Horselips is the guy who believes an NAA mini revolver is a fine ccw piece. 




    It is! For a lot of reasons, under the right circumstances, depending on season, destination, wardrobe requirements, and so forth, sometimes it's exactly the right gun. There are no absolutes, especially in CCW, except one - "have a gun." Never, ever, leave home without … one or the other.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,251 Senior Member
    horselips said:
    cpj said:
    Guys. Again. 
    Horselips is the guy who believes an NAA mini revolver is a fine ccw piece. 




    It is! For a lot of reasons, under the right circumstances, depending on season, destination, wardrobe requirements, and so forth, sometimes it's exactly the right gun. 
    Ok. Maybe. 


    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,121 Senior Member
    Zee said:

    Both have to be realistic. And folks, an active shooter is becoming more and more realistic. 

    So, when I walk out my door, I try to be prepared for both. 

    Outside of the most likely and most dangerous REALISTIC encounters I expect to come up against, I should be relatively prepared and practiced. 
    Add to that the fact that the most realistic places this will happen are places such as church, hospitals, malls, schools and such.  All of them places where a relatively long shot is a rather distinct possibility
    Wambli,
    It is a realistic possibility in my situation.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Add to that the fact that the most realistic places this will happen are places such as church, hospitals, malls, schools and such.  All of them places where a relatively long shot is a rather distinct possibility.
    Which is why I'm an advocate of carrying a gun that you're capable with, and medical on your person. If you're in the center of the mall when something goes down, the trope of "I'll run out to my vehicle and..." probably isn't going to take place.

    Anything that you're going to need in that situation, you're going to need it RFN.
  • DavidPDouglassDavidPDouglass Posts: 2 New Member
    A gun is a tool and nothing more. As age becomes a factor in 'tool-usage success' that tool must be updated-enhanced or....replaced if improvements are impossible. 

    Enter the red dot pistol optic to be considered as a real solution for validating the basic tool, transforming it into a viable tool for the job at hand. 

    When my eyes no longer could determine proper sight alignment within 1/10th of a second, I installed day-night fiber optic tritium sights. And when those sights became a greater challenge than they were on day one of their usage, I added the last possible option available on the market, to see where the bullet will strike when fired--a Vortex Viper red dot optic. 

    Where the red dot optic really works better than any other form or method of obtaining a accurate sight picture, is when the target is moving unpredictably--which is how target--lethal threats, always act. 

    A red dot optic is easily used with both eyes open, and is therefore the perfect addition to the tool for completing a legal self-defense shooting in accordance with the law, case law, and jury instructions for my particular local jurisdiction. 

    A tool which is set-up for 'two-eyes acquisition' of a moving lethal threat, is the best tool for the challenge at hand. Lethal threat moves fast, both eyes move with it, and the sight-picture follows automatically to achieve a 'leading red dot zone' upon which the threat enters ...as the trigger is squeezed in proper timing.

    Exactly the method which long distance shooters use when leading a moving target---let the target enter the optic's kill zone.  

    A red or green dot optic pistol is the best tool for real life lethal threats up close and personal. Also great for racking the slide one handed if need be, as you fend off the threat with the off-hand in order to employ the perfect tool for the job at hand with the strong hand. 
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,781 Senior Member
    edited December 2018 #27
    A gun is a tool and nothing more. As age becomes a factor in 'tool-usage success' that tool must be updated-enhanced or....replaced if improvements are impossible. 

    Enter the red dot pistol optic to be considered as a real solution for validating the basic tool, transforming it into a viable tool for the job at hand. 

    When my eyes no longer could determine proper sight alignment within 1/10th of a second, I installed day-night fiber optic tritium sights. And when those sights became a greater challenge than they were on day one of their usage, I added the last possible option available on the market, to see where the bullet will strike when fired--a Vortex Viper red dot optic. 

    Where the red dot optic really works better than any other form or method of obtaining a accurate sight picture, is when the target is moving unpredictably--which is how target--lethal threats, always act. 

    A red dot optic is easily used with both eyes open, and is therefore the perfect addition to the tool for completing a legal self-defense shooting in accordance with the law, case law, and jury instructions for my particular local jurisdiction. 

    A tool which is set-up for 'two-eyes acquisition' of a moving lethal threat, is the best tool for the challenge at hand. Lethal threat moves fast, both eyes move with it, and the sight-picture follows automatically to achieve a 'leading red dot zone' upon which the threat enters ...as the trigger is squeezed in proper timing.

    Exactly the method which long distance shooters use when leading a moving target---let the target enter the optic's kill zone.  

    A red or green dot optic pistol is the best tool for real life lethal threats up close and personal. Also great for racking the slide one handed if need be, as you fend off the threat with the off-hand in order to employ the perfect tool for the job at hand with the strong hand. 
    Everything you list as a good reason for having a red dot optic applies to a good quality laser, which has even more advantages, easy concealment being one of them.

    I like red dots, and own a couple, but I don't want one on a carry pistol, for all of the reasons listed in previous posts. I do have lasers mounted on a pocket pistol, a snub-nosed revolver, and a subcompact 9mm pistol that I occasionally carry, and I feel very confident that they will work, if needed.  I don't have to have my eyeglasses, or even look down the top of the barrel to hit a small target at short range. But, I can shoot well enough without them if they don't work.

    Bottom line, for me, is add any device to your carry gun that makes you feel better about whatever scenario you imagine to be most likely - but don't assume that it will work, if it is ever needed.

  • DavidPDouglassDavidPDouglass Posts: 2 New Member
    Here is the business end of my main 'life-saving carry-tool' note the co-witness suppressor height Trijicon night sights for when and if I forget to change the battery in my Viper optic, and a 800 lumen light and laser, all on a custom XDM 9mm, w/24 rounds in extended mag of lehigh defense xtreme defense ammo. Trigger is a top of the line Powder River Precision trigger which has a 3.5 lb. pull minimal take up and reset. Hitting moving targets has never been easier.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 11,294 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    horselips said:
    cpj said:
    Guys. Again. 
    Horselips is the guy who believes an NAA mini revolver is a fine ccw piece. 




    It is! For a lot of reasons, under the right circumstances, depending on season, destination, wardrobe requirements, and so forth, sometimes it's exactly the right gun. 
    Ok. Maybe. 


    I gave DeanC one of these for his 40th Bday, it actually has a pocket in it and his Chartrer Arms .44 spl Pug fit in it quite nicely
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,251 Senior Member
    😳
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 2,680 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    horselips said:
    cpj said:
    Guys. Again. 
    Horselips is the guy who believes an NAA mini revolver is a fine ccw piece. 




    It is! For a lot of reasons, under the right circumstances, depending on season, destination, wardrobe requirements, and so forth, sometimes it's exactly the right gun. 
    Ok. Maybe. 



    Talk about pullin' a gun out of yer ass! :#
    Beware of false knowledge -- it is often more dangerous than ignorance.
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