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250 Savage AI - whaddya know?

MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior MemberPosts: 4,801 Senior Member
edited November 2018 in General Firearms #1
Some may recall earlier this year i was having a heckuva time with my M70 243. I have tried many loads and nothing is really shooting. I figured if I can't get it to shoot,  I may rebore to 358 or rebarrel to something else. 

Then I bought the 6mm Creedmoor,  and it shoots great. I also aquired a 35 Whelen, and still have a 35 Whelen bbl for a 1903 (which im going to do @20-21" now). 

This week I finally put my EABCO 1:8 243 heavy sporter/ light varmint barrel on my Encore,  threw a scope on and bought a cheap box of 243 ammo (didn't have time to reload and I hate zeroing with reloads until ive got a load worked up). It shoots great!! 

So, now ive got 2 6mm's, and i'll have a long and short 35 cal. I no longer need another 6mm or 35. 

Im thinking a 250 AI would be just the ticket in this little M70. 

I know someone here has one,  and in guessing at least a few have dabbled with the 250 in regular form or AI. What are your results? Loads? Expectations? 

This will be a 22" featherweight,  100 grains and up. A nice light little deer gun. Ive got hundreds of 257 bullets,  and Ive found sub-moa loads for the 257 AI and 25-06. I need a something else for all these bullets.  

May also consider the 22 Creedmoor,  which is bound to be a factory option soon. It would still be a deer sized game gun,  where legal (MT, WY, KS are all 22 centerfire legal,  for example)
Wambli Ska wrote: »
Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
«1

Replies

  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,931 Senior Member
    i have no experience with the 250, I assume your talking about the 257 Roberts, I have built a few AI rifles. at present i only have 2, a 7x57 AI and a 280 AI, since i dont have any load or velocity figures on hand, depending on the cartridge and barrel length you can expect velocity increase's of between 150 and 300 fps. All of my rifles have 26" barrels, in personal opinion, and talking to others any barrel length 22" or less, you wont get enough increase to justify the cost, unless your doing real small capacity cases. 

    Sierra shows a 257R a max of 40.3gr.of RE-15 - 100gr SBT for 3000fps in a 22" bbl. and for the 257AI 44.1gr RE-15 - 100grSBT for 3200fps with a 26" bbl.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Yes the 250-300/250 Savage. 

    My dad has a 257 AI, I found a 1/2" load for it finally, I'm done playing around with it. Going to load up all the cases/115gr partitions I have for it and call it good. 

    I however, need myself another 25, or the fast 22. 
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Some may recall earlier this year i was having a heckuva time with my M70 243. I have tried many loads and nothing is really shooting. I figured if I can't get it to shoot,  I may rebore to 358 or rebarrel to something else. 

    Then I bought the 6mm Creedmoor,  and it shoots great. I also aquired a 35 Whelen, and still have a 35 Whelen bbl for a 1903 (which im going to do @20-21" now). 

    This week I finally put my EABCO 1:8 243 heavy sporter/ light varmint barrel on my Encore,  threw a scope on and bought a cheap box of 243 ammo (didn't have time to reload and I hate zeroing with reloads until ive got a load worked up). It shoots great!! 

    So, now ive got 2 6mm's, and i'll have a long and short 35 cal. I no longer need another 6mm or 35. 

    Im thinking a 250 AI would be just the ticket in this little M70. 

    I know someone here has one,  and in guessing at least a few have dabbled with the 250 in regular form or AI. What are your results? Loads? Expectations? 

    This will be a 22" featherweight,  100 grains and up. A nice light little deer gun. Ive got hundreds of 257 bullets,  and Ive found sub-moa loads for the 257 AI and 25-06. I need a something else for all these bullets.  

    May also consider the 22 Creedmoor,  which is bound to be a factory option soon. It would still be a deer sized game gun,  where legal (MT, WY, KS are all 22 centerfire legal,  for example)5
    The .250 Savage is the sweetest shooting rifle I own. I've killed hogs and Fe killed deer with mine. It kills with aplomb whatever aplomb is. Out to 200-300 yards it's a good killer of hogs and deer size game. And recoil is minimal.

    You might want to try the regular .250-3000 or .250 Savage, whatever you want to call it it's the same thing, first. You might be pleasantly surprised with its performance. If not you can have it chambered out to the AI easily enough. I love my one AI as it shoots good and is a killer, but it's not without its down sides. You may experience feeding or ejection problems. It's one of those things you gotta get just right for it to function well.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    What bullets are you running Snake? I thought about the regular 250-3000, but I'm really sticking to the 100+ grain bullets, I think the added capacity will help
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    edited November 2018 #7
    I've had best results with 115 grain Combined Technologies Ballistic Silvertips. I've also used Hornady and SGK 117 Grains. But the Ballistic Silvertips have done well in my experience. I've also considered trying a 110 grain of some sort, but they're hard to find and I can't remember who makes 'em.


    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    edited November 2018 #8
    Also, my chamber neck is on the long side. This is something I need to have done to my .257 AI. I seat my bullets in the 250 very long as to give me more powder capacity. It helped keep velocities with heavier bullets up there with the heavier bullets. Then again mine has a 26 inch barrel. My .257 AI has a short throat which limits powder capacity.

    However, the .250 is not something you would want to lug up a mountain. Maybe the improved will be better for you if you want to run with a shorter barrel and thus lighter rifle. Mine is used mainly out of a deer blind on flat land so weight isn't a big deal.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Hornady and Nosler make bonded 110's, is that what your thinking about?

    Its a tough one,  the 250 AI vs a fast 22. Case prep and 2 sets of dies vs a *at the moment* wildcat that's legal in my surrounding states for deer. 

    The 22CM would be a simple neck down from 6mm Creedmoor,  which I have.  250 AI would most likely be a multi stage process of necking up 22-250 brass, fire forming, then resizing just to get to a starting point. 
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,629 Senior Member
    I've never had an AI rifle.  I realize the shoulder extension gives more capacity, but I''m not sure why one needs an improvement over a tried and true original.  What's an extra 50 fps going to get you, except a decreased trade-in.  I'd love to have a 250-3000 Savage 99 and wouldn't dare touch it, but I'm old school.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    250 AI is more like 200 fps, not 50
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,748 Senior Member
    Some of the modern propellants deliver more energy than the older ones used during development.

    The excerpted content of my previous post cites improved head space and case life.

    Maybe not significant differences, but the cost of a reamer and/or rechambering should be the same either way. Seems like there's no down side to the AI.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    edited November 2018 #13
    Hornady and Nosler make bonded 110's, is that what your thinking about?

    Its a tough one,  the 250 AI vs a fast 22. Case prep and 2 sets of dies vs a *at the moment* wildcat that's legal in my surrounding states for deer. 

    The 22CM would be a simple neck down from 6mm Creedmoor,  which I have.  250 AI would most likely be a multi stage process of necking up 22-250 brass, fire forming, then resizing just to get to a starting point. 
    Well, on the good side of that, .250 brass is readily . I have a .22-250 and plenty of brass but I have never necked any up. I just use new .250 brass, and it's not prohibitively expensive. That gets me to the starting point but since I don't have the AI I don't worry about after that point. However, I do have an AI in .257 Roberts and I just fireform and be done. No big deal and with 100 grain bullets it's pretty accurate in the process so you can hunt with it when you fire form.

    Case prep is a mute point for me, I do it anyway. There's no extra prep needed though, just check case length after resizing. If it's long trim it. Once it's fire formed from then on it's just like loading any round.




    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    edited November 2018 #14

    250 AI is more like 200 fps, not 50
    Depends on the chamber dimensions of the individual rifle. Some rifles get as high as 300 FPS more than a standard chamber. Some don't even get 50. At least that's what I've read and been told. My .257 AI gets as much as 300 FPS
    What bullets are you running Snake? I thought about the regular 250-3000, but I'm really sticking to the 100+ grain bullets, I think the added capacity will help
    Do you ned an AI if all you are running is a 22" tube?  I'd run some numbers on a computer before you go through with the experiment.  The extra capacity might just end up as a fireball out the muzzle.

    above standard chambers and and as little as 150 on some depending on bullet weight. Most loads I've chronied in it are around or just above 200 FPS so it was a valid effort doing the improvement.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 1,738 Senior Member
    I have always been intrigued by AI and read a lot about it. IIRC there are two cartridges that benefit most from AI, The 257 Roberts and the 280 Rem.
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    edited November 2018 #16
    IFreezer said:
    I have always been intrigued by AI and read a lot about it. IIRC there are two cartridges that benefit most from AI, The 257 Roberts and the 280 Rem.
    The 250 is one of the biggest,  even Ackley states so in his book, and he honestly say if a cat is not worth doing.  Totally forgot I had both volumes of the Ackkey book lol
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    What bullets are you running Snake? I thought about the regular 250-3000, but I'm really sticking to the 100+ grain bullets, I think the added capacity will help
    Do you ned an AI if all you are running is a 22" tube?  I'd run some numbers on a computer before you go through with the experiment.  The extra capacity might just end up as a fireball out the muzzle.
    The 257 AI has a 22" tube on it.

    AI'ing the 250 basically turns it into a 257 Roberts, velocity wise, but in a true short action instead of being mauser length (dads 257 is a LA). I MAY have a spare M70 LA to play with after my 270 Wby conversion is done, but then I have this cute lil short action that needs to become something else as well.  
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    snake284 said:
    Hornady and Nosler make bonded 110's, is that what your thinking about?

    Its a tough one,  the 250 AI vs a fast 22. Case prep and 2 sets of dies vs a *at the moment* wildcat that's legal in my surrounding states for deer. 

    The 22CM would be a simple neck down from 6mm Creedmoor,  which I have.  250 AI would most likely be a multi stage process of necking up 22-250 brass, fire forming, then resizing just to get to a starting point. 
    Well, on the good side of that, .250 brass is readily . I have a .22-250 and plenty of brass but I have never necked any up. I just use new .250 brass, and it's not prohibitively expensive. That gets me to the starting point but since I don't have the AI I don't worry about after that point. However, I do have an AI in .257 Roberts and I just fireform and be done. No big deal and with 100 grain bullets it's pretty accurate in the process so you can hunt with it when you fire form.

    Case prep is a mute point for me, I do it anyway. There's no extra prep needed though, just check case length after resizing. If it's long trim it. Once it's fire formed from then on it's just like loading any round.




    Oh ok, i misunderstood Snake! I thought you had both a 250-300 AND 250 AI, but you've got a regular 250 and a 257 AI. 

    I'm still thinking if I go 250 AI, I'm going to neck up 22-250 brass. Much better quality brass available.  I want good quality brass that hopefully lasts a good while (like Lapua). Only real option for 250 brass is hornady (haven't had luck forming those, fine for loading just not the extra fireforming work) and Rem. I just formed a bag of 7x57 into 257 into 257 AI, and mostly its pretty good,  but ive already had to toss a couple due to loose pockets.  If I have to go through multiple steps, I hope better brass lasts longer.  Plus Lapua comes annealed, I believe. 

    A 257 on the Creedmoor case has been done,  and would be really easy as well. I believe it would be pretty close to the 250AI, but the dies will be a lot more
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,549 Senior Member
    edited November 2018 #19
    What do I know?

    I know I like my .25-06 Remington rifle. 

    I know it has killed everything I’ve shot with it. 

    I know I will/would never build another .257cal cartridge if given the choice. 

    In that realm, it would be 6mm or 6.5cal. 

    End of story. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,549 Senior Member
    Given the chance to build that rifle again, it would be a 6.5-06 A-Square. 

    If I wanted a short action, it would have been a .260 Remington. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,549 Senior Member
    edited November 2018 #21
    Yes. 

    And BC. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    edited November 2018 #22
    I don't plan to shoot at animals in the next county with this build.

    And im *not* building any 6.5's of any kind.
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,549 Senior Member
    Your loss. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    edited November 2018 #24
    Im not adding any new calibers.  Ive got around 15-1800 or so 6mm bullets,  and several hundred various 257's. 
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,549 Senior Member
    Amateur. 

    😁
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Says the guy that gets the shakes thinking about adding a 4th powder to his loading bench lol
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,549 Senior Member
    edited November 2018 #27
    Hey, I can cover a multitude of cartridges with the handful of powders I stock. 

    It keeps me “focused”. 

    😎
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Funny,  same reason im not adding any 6.5, 338, 416 or 458's to not arsenal
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,549 Senior Member
    What’s the fun in that?!?

    😜
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • brians356brians356 Member Posts: 161 Member
    edited May 18 #30
    The 250 Ackley Improved is really just a "25 Creedmoor".  I can take a fired 6.5 Creedmoor case, run it through my Redding 250 Ackley Improved FL die, load and fire it in my 250 AI rifle. The neck is long (should be trimmed) but still fits in the 250 AI chamber. There ain't nothing new under the sun. The extractor groove looks ugly, but the internal ballistics are essentially identical.

    L to R: 6.5 Creedmoor; 6.5 CM after FL sizing "250 AI 40°"; 250-3000 AI 40° case
    -

    "If this is flag waving, can you think of a better flag to wave?"
    Irving Berlin
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,629 Senior Member
    I would love to own a 250-3000, a kind of grail gun in a 99 Savage.  I've never owned an AI in any caliber.  The idea just doesn't warm me up.  Sure, you can wring a few more FPS out of an AI, but you generally don't get into a new category of rifle.  You've basically got the same caliber/rifle with just a slight performance change. Plus, you have to get new dies.

    Chronograph fans probably get more advantage than shooters in the field.  
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
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