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250 Savage AI - whaddya know?

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  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    What bullets are you running Snake? I thought about the regular 250-3000, but I'm really sticking to the 100+ grain bullets, I think the added capacity will help
    Do you ned an AI if all you are running is a 22" tube?  I'd run some numbers on a computer before you go through with the experiment.  The extra capacity might just end up as a fireball out the muzzle.
    Good point, and like I mentioned in another post here, my .257 AI gets 150-300 FPS velocities above standard chambers depending on bullet weight. But my barrel is 26". I don't know what you plan on using it for but that's not something you want to lug up a mountain. Mine's heavy for
    Gene L said:
    I would love to own a 250-3000, a kind of grail gun in a 99 Savage.  I've never owned an AI in any caliber.  The idea just doesn't warm me up.  Sure, you can wring a few more FPS out of an AI, but you generally don't get into a new category of rifle.  You've basically got the same caliber/rifle with just a slight performance change. Plus, you have to get new dies.

    Chronograph fans probably get more advantage than shooters in the field.
    Some may recall earlier this year i was having a heckuva time with my M70 243. I have tried many loads and nothing is really shooting. I figured if I can't get it to shoot,  I may rebore to 358 or rebarrel to something else. 

    Then I bought the 6mm Creedmoor,  and it shoots great. I also aquired a 35 Whelen, and still have a 35 Whelen bbl for a 1903 (which im going to do @20-21" now). 

    This week I finally put my EABCO 1:8 243 heavy sporter/ light varmint barrel on my Encore,  threw a scope on and bought a cheap box of 243 ammo (didn't have time to reload and I hate zeroing with reloads until ive got a load worked up). It shoots great!! 

    So, now ive got 2 6mm's, and i'll have a long and short 35 cal. I no longer need another 6mm or 35. 

    Im thinking a 250 AI would be just the ticket in this little M70. 

    I know someone here has one,  and in guessing at least a few have dabbled with the 250 in regular form or AI. What are your results? Loads? Expectations? 

    This will be a 22" featherweight,  100 grains and up. A nice light little deer gun. Ive got hundreds of 257 bullets,  and Ive found sub-moa loads for the 257 AI and 25-06. I need a something else for all these bullets.  

    May also consider the 22 Creedmoor,  which is bound to be a factory option soon. It would still be a deer sized game gun,  where legal (MT, WY, KS are all 22 centerfire legal,  for example)

     

    the cartridge because of that barrel
    Gene L said:
    I would love to own a 250-3000, a kind of grail gun in a 99 Savage.  I've never owned an AI in any caliber.  The idea just doesn't warm me up.  Sure, you can wring a few more FPS out of an AI, but you generally don't get into a new category of rifle.  You've basically got the same caliber/rifle with just a slight performance change. Plus, you have to get new dies.

    Chronograph fans probably get more advantage than shooters in the field.  
    OK I just saw this because I haven't been around a lot lately and just drop in a couple times a week. As for the .257 AI, or the .250 AI, with a 22" barrel you won't get enough out of the Improvement to make it worthwhile. You can get plenty from a plain old .250 Savage, .250-3000, whatever you want to call it, same difference. One thing makes my .250 a different rifle is the powder and bullets I use. RL-17 is a double base powder and for that size case it really adds the zip to it. Also, I like the Combined Technology 115 grain Ballistic Tips.0 It's a great combo and hell on game. Of course my barrel adds a good bit but even so that combo will give you the best performance you can hope for with the little .250 case. With a 22" barrel I can see 2800 FPS out of it.

    As for the .257 Improved, I'm seeing a good solid 3000 FPS out of it, but then again that's also a 26" barrel. That's 200-300 FPS over the standard ,257 Roberts, which it's advertised to be. Of course, as we know, advertised velocity isn't always in the real world. But this one gets it and I'm pretty sure it's the barrel length.

    Now, I'm not a target shooter, I'm a hunter. I don't shoot at stuff in the next zip code, normally (However, never say never). The .257 AI puts me close to .25-06 territory. Not all the way but within 100-150 FPS of it. That's close enough for me. I use the same Combined Techlology 115 grain bullet in both. I'm thinking about trying the Combined Technology version of the Nosler Partition in them.

    I'm not a believer in the magic of 6.5 anything. If I build a 6.5 it will be the 6.5x57 or the 6.5-06. For what I do a good .25 will do more than I need.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    snake284 said:
    What bullets are you running Snake? I thought about the regular 250-3000, but I'm really sticking to the 100+ grain bullets, I think the added capacity will help
    Do you ned an AI if all you are running is a 22" tube?  I'd run some numbers on a computer before you go through with the experiment.  The extra capacity might just end up as a fireball out the muzzle.
    Good point, and like I mentioned in another post here, my .257 AI gets 150-300 FPS velocities above standard chambers depending on bullet weight. But my barrel is 26". I don't know what you plan on using it for but that's not something you want to lug up a mountain. Mine's heavy for
    Gene L said:
    I would love to own a 250-3000, a kind of grail gun in a 99 Savage.  I've never owned an AI in any caliber.  The idea just doesn't warm me up.  Sure, you can wring a few more FPS out of an AI, but you generally don't get into a new category of rifle.  You've basically got the same caliber/rifle with just a slight performance change. Plus, you have to get new dies.

    Chronograph fans probably get more advantage than shooters in the field.
    Some may recall earlier this year i was having a heckuva time with my M70 243. I have tried many loads and nothing is really shooting. I figured if I can't get it to shoot,  I may rebore to 358 or rebarrel to something else. 

    Then I bought the 6mm Creedmoor,  and it shoots great. I also aquired a 35 Whelen, and still have a 35 Whelen bbl for a 1903 (which im going to do @20-21" now). 

    This week I finally put my EABCO 1:8 243 heavy sporter/ light varmint barrel on my Encore,  threw a scope on and bought a cheap box of 243 ammo (didn't have time to reload and I hate zeroing with reloads until ive got a load worked up). It shoots great!! 

    So, now ive got 2 6mm's, and i'll have a long and short 35 cal. I no longer need another 6mm or 35. 

    Im thinking a 250 AI would be just the ticket in this little M70. 

    I know someone here has one,  and in guessing at least a few have dabbled with the 250 in regular form or AI. What are your results? Loads? Expectations? 

    This will be a 22" featherweight,  100 grains and up. A nice light little deer gun. Ive got hundreds of 257 bullets,  and Ive found sub-moa loads for the 257 AI and 25-06. I need a something else for all these bullets.  

    May also consider the 22 Creedmoor,  which is bound to be a factory option soon. It would still be a deer sized game gun,  where legal (MT, WY, KS are all 22 centerfire legal,  for example)

     

    the cartridge because of that barrel
    Gene L said:
    I would love to own a 250-3000, a kind of grail gun in a 99 Savage.  I've never owned an AI in any caliber.  The idea just doesn't warm me up.  Sure, you can wring a few more FPS out of an AI, but you generally don't get into a new category of rifle.  You've basically got the same caliber/rifle with just a slight performance change. Plus, you have to get new dies.

    Chronograph fans probably get more advantage than shooters in the field.  
    OK I just saw this because I haven't been around a lot lately and just drop in a couple times a week. As for the .257 AI, or the .250 AI, with a 22" barrel you won't get enough out of the Improvement to make it worthwhile. You can get plenty from a plain old .250 Savage, .250-3000, whatever you want to call it, same difference. One thing makes my .250 a different rifle is the powder and bullets I use. RL-17 is a double base powder and for that size case it really adds the zip to it. Also, I like the Combined Technology 115 grain Ballistic Tips.0 It's a great combo and hell on game. Of course my barrel adds a good bit but even so that combo will give you the best performance you can hope for with the little .250 case. With a 22" barrel I can see 2800 FPS out of it.

    As for the .257 Improved, I'm seeing a good solid 3000 FPS out of it, but then again that's also a 26" barrel. That's 200-300 FPS over the standard ,257 Roberts, which it's advertised to be. Of course, as we know, advertised velocity isn't always in the real world. But this one gets it and I'm pretty sure it's the barrel length.

    Now, I'm not a target shooter, I'm a hunter. I don't shoot at stuff in the next zip code, normally (However, never say never). The .257 AI puts me close to .25-06 territory. Not all the way but within 100-150 FPS of it. That's close enough for me. I use the same Combined Techlology 115 grain bullet in both. I'm thinking about trying the Combined Technology version of the Nosler Partition in them.

    I'm not a believer in the magic of 6.5 anything. In my opinion the 6.5s have an edge for long range shooting because the orignal military rifles came with tight twist barrels because they wanted it to stabilise the long 160 grain bullets of the day and it caught on. You can do the same with any diameter bullet if you can get a barrel with tight enough twist and long high BC bullets. But for shooting game out to 400 or even 500 yards you don't need that. If I build a 6.5 it will be the 6.5x57 or the 6.5-06. For what I do a good .25 will do more than I need.

    snake284 said:
    What bullets are you running Snake? I thought about the regular 250-3000, but I'm really sticking to the 100+ grain bullets, I think the added capacity will help
    Do you ned an AI if all you are running is a 22" tube?  I'd run some numbers on a computer before you go through with the experiment.  The extra capacity might just end up as a fireball out the muzzle.
    Good point, and like I mentioned in another post here, my .257 AI gets 150-300 FPS velocities above standard chambers depending on bullet weight. But my barrel is 26". I don't know what you plan on using it for but that's not something you want to lug up a mountain. Mine's heavy for
    Gene L said:
    I would love to own a 250-3000, a kind of grail gun in a 99 Savage.  I've never owned an AI in any caliber.  The idea just doesn't warm me up.  Sure, you can wring a few more FPS out of an AI, but you generally don't get into a new category of rifle.  You've basically got the same caliber/rifle with just a slight performance change. Plus, you have to get new dies.

    Chronograph fans probably get more advantage than shooters in the field.
    Some may recall earlier this year i was having a heckuva time with my M70 243. I have tried many loads and nothing is really shooting. I figured if I can't get it to shoot,  I may rebore to 358 or rebarrel to something else. 

    Then I bought the 6mm Creedmoor,  and it shoots great. I also aquired a 35 Whelen, and still have a 35 Whelen bbl for a 1903 (which im going to do @20-21" now). 

    This week I finally put my EABCO 1:8 243 heavy sporter/ light varmint barrel on my Encore,  threw a scope on and bought a cheap box of 243 ammo (didn't have time to reload and I hate zeroing with reloads until ive got a load worked up). It shoots great!! 

    So, now ive got 2 6mm's, and i'll have a long and short 35 cal. I no longer need another 6mm or 35. 

    Im thinking a 250 AI would be just the ticket in this little M70. 

    I know someone here has one,  and in guessing at least a few have dabbled with the 250 in regular form or AI. What are your results? Loads? Expectations? 

    This will be a 22" featherweight,  100 grains and up. A nice light little deer gun. Ive got hundreds of 257 bullets,  and Ive found sub-moa loads for the 257 AI and 25-06. I need a something else for all these bullets.  

    May also consider the 22 Creedmoor,  which is bound to be a factory option soon. It would still be a deer sized game gun,  where legal (MT, WY, KS are all 22 centerfire legal,  for example)

     

    the cartridge because of that barrel
    Gene L said:
    I would love to own a 250-3000, a kind of grail gun in a 99 Savage.  I've never owned an AI in any caliber.  The idea just doesn't warm me up.  Sure, you can wring a few more FPS out of an AI, but you generally don't get into a new category of rifle.  You've basically got the same caliber/rifle with just a slight performance change. Plus, you have to get new dies.

    Chronograph fans probably get more advantage than shooters in the field.  
    OK I just saw this because I haven't been around a lot lately and just drop in a couple times a week. As for the .257 AI, or the .250 AI, with a 22" barrel you won't get enough out of the Improvement to make it worthwhile. You can get plenty from a plain old .250 Savage, .250-3000, whatever you want to call it, same difference. One thing makes my .250 a different rifle is the powder and bullets I use. RL-17 is a double base powder and for that size case it really adds the zip to it. Also, I like the Combined Technology 115 grain Ballistic Tips.0 It's a great combo and hell on game. Of course my barrel adds a good bit but even so that combo will give you the best performance you can hope for with the little .250 case. With a 22" barrel I can see 2800 FPS out of it.

    As for the .257 Improved, I'm seeing a good solid 3000 FPS out of it, but then again that's also a 26" barrel. That's 200-300 FPS over the standard ,257 Roberts, which it's advertised to be. Of course, as we know, advertised velocity isn't always in the real world. But this one gets it and I'm pretty sure it's the barrel length.

    Now, I'm not a target shooter, I'm a hunter. I don't shoot at stuff in the next zip code, normally (However, never say never). The .257 AI puts me close to .25-06 territory. Not all the way but within 100-150 FPS of it. That's close enough for me. I use the same Combined Techlology 115 grain bullet in both. I'm thinking about trying the Combined Technology version of the Nosler Partition in them.

    I'm not a believer in the magic of 6.5 anything. If I build a 6.5 it will be the 6.5x57 or the 6.5-06. For what I do a good .25 will do more than I need.


    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Oh one more point. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't use the Ackly improvement. I found in one of my old reloading manuals another version, the RCBS. The .257 RCBS doesn't have such a sharp shoulder angle but it gets about as much gain in powder capacity. I had problems with feeding the AI version. I believe the RCBS version will feed better. It doesn't look as sexy but it might be the better option.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JustsomedudeJustsomedude Posts: 430 Member
    AI is nearly useless with today's plethora of powders with vast burn rates.
  • brians356brians356 Member Posts: 161 Member
    AI is nearly useless with today's plethora of powders with vast burn rates.
    The AI still gains capacity, and also benefits from the same plethora of great powders, so the AI steps out ahead of its parent cartridge regardless. Not sure how newer powders render AI useless. In fact, I'm sure they don't. You decide on the performance you need, and choose from available cartridges, standard or wildcats, of varying capacity and efficiency, to meet that requirement. In the case of 250 AI and 257 AI, they are both very efficient and reasonably compact. But if you can meet your requirement with a particular powder in the standard 250 Savage or whatever, there it is!
    "If this is flag waving, can you think of a better flag to wave?"
    Irving Berlin
  • brians356brians356 Member Posts: 161 Member
    snake284 said:
    Oh one more point. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't use the Ackly improvement. I found in one of my old reloading manuals another version, the RCBS. The .257 RCBS doesn't have such a sharp shoulder angle but it gets about as much gain in powder capacity. I had problems with feeding the AI version. I believe the RCBS version will feed better. It doesn't look as sexy but it might be the better option.
    The RCBS version of 250 AI and 257 AI have 30° shoulders. Most of Ackley's were 40°, but the RCBS is commonly referred to as "Ackley Improved 30°".
    "If this is flag waving, can you think of a better flag to wave?"
    Irving Berlin
  • tinytanktinytank Posts: 8 New Member
    Weird! I own a couple of AI rifles but not that 250 one. From your description and all the other comments though I'm intrigued to buy one and test it! 
  • brians356brians356 Member Posts: 161 Member
    tinytank said:
    Weird! I own a couple of AI rifles but not that 250 one. From your description and all the other comments though I'm intrigued to buy one and test it! 
    Honestly, today I would probably just build a 25 Creedmoor for the same performance, and a plethora of fine brass available, needing only neck prep.

    "If this is flag waving, can you think of a better flag to wave?"
    Irving Berlin
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    Well....Are you going to build a 250AI?
    I have a 25 Creed, which is either a simple neck up or neck down.
    I like it.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
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