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Tipping Point?

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  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    I remember those military Chevy Blazers with the adapted 350 small blocks to diesel. That plant is literally a mile from my house. Back in those days, both the unions and management thought their poop didn't stink. We weren't really engaged in a world economy yet and the USA was basically the last one standing in the rubble of WWII... it took decades for Europe and Asia to get up to speed, but when they did, they done smoked past us, leaving our own fat happy asses eating their dust.

    That said, it wasn't the UAW's fault that management decided to turn a small block gasoline Chevy into a diesel... they just build the damn things, they didn't design them or authorize that design. The stockholders got fat and happy on that as well. And that is the sin of publicly held corporations... short term profits seem to be the only real consideration. They run 90 day sprints-- quarter to quarter, not looking at the long term or seeing the big picture. 90 days doesn't mean crap in the long haul, yet that is how they orient themselves.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    Seems to me all of this mental masturbation should take place after the Marxist are dealt
    with. Marxism cannot co exist in a Capitalist Republic. Marxist eventually kill their political    
    enemy's, they don't negotiate. Our most urgent issue is the " Deep State" and the Democrats attempting to overthrow the President of the United States,everything else at this point is just noise. Crony Capitalism and many other issues can be dealt with after the pitch forks are back in the barn. JMO,FWIW.

    The tree of liberty needs refreshed. 
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 12,197 Senior Member
    I remember those military Chevy Blazers with the adapted 350 small blocks to diesel. That plant is literally a mile from my house. Back in those days, both the unions and management thought their poop didn't stink. We weren't really engaged in a world economy yet and the USA was basically the last one standing in the rubble of WWII... it took decades for Europe and Asia to get up to speed, but when they did, they done smoked past us, leaving our own fat happy asses eating their dust.

    That said, it wasn't the UAW's fault that management decided to turn a small block gasoline Chevy into a diesel... they just build the damn things, they didn't design them or authorize that design. The stockholders got fat and happy on that as well. And that is the sin of publicly held corporations... short term profits seem to be the only real consideration. They run 90 day sprints-- quarter to quarter, not looking at the long term or seeing the big picture. 90 days doesn't mean crap in the long haul, yet that is how they orient themselves.
    Those CUV-Vs were fun to drive. There was 3 or 4 configurations the P/U and Blazer being most common. Top speed was 60 or 65 MPH
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I drove one of those Blazers from Camp New York Kuwait to Baghdad and back 03. Ran like a bat outta hell once it got rolling...........I dunno about the top speed, but I had to put the pedal to the metal a few times to get outta/through some places and it never let me down.

    Only issue was an inline fuse blowing and for some funny reason it never happened to me, only when I loaned it another DOD Civilian.


    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    Not that I'd advocate for it, but even Fascism beats Socialism. And that's pretty bad!

    I fail to see appreciable differences in them.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    tennmike said:
    Anyone remember the GM fiasco when they tried to use the GM 350 c.i.d. gas engine as a platform for a diesel engine? Anyone? That came back and bit GM big time.
    I most certainly do.
    GM set back diesels in North America by decades with that mess. When the engine wasn't blowing head gaskets or breaking connecting rods, it was actually a pretty darn good motor - I have an acquaintance who had one and really liked it. Until it blew its gasket, that is.
    GM didn't do diesels any favors with their 1st couple of attempts at pickup truck engines either, and the occasional poorly engineered car diesel from time-to-time. Ford partnered with Navistar, Dodge partnered with Cummins, if GM had partnered with Cat, they would have had something.
    Its my understanding that they finally got it right with the new Duramax like Jerm has. Its too darn quiet for my taste, but who cares?
    But every time diesel cars start making headway here, somebody screws it up. GM several times, and now VW. So we're stuck with inefficient gasoline engines while the rest of the world runs on diesel. 2010 was supposed to be "the year of the Japanese diesel" - but that never happened. Honda, the only Japanese company that did NOT have a presence in the worldwide diesel market, had been quietly buying up diesel technology - and if there's any company on the planet that knows emissions, it's Honda.
    But that never happened either, and I'm not sure why.

    My much older Brother (I was born on his 23rd birthday) purchased a new 1980 Oldsmobile V8 diesel. One new engine and two transmissions later it was parked in a lot and mercifully squished by an errant tractor trailer. Did GM have not one engineer familiar with diesels? I am a long time "car guy" and actually bent wrenches and skinned knuckles at a GM dealership. You cannot simply convert a four stroke ignition cycle gasoline engine to a diesel ignition cycle and expect anything approaching durability. Gasoline engines ignite the fuel/air mixture with a spark plug and burn it to create enough pressure to push the piston down. Diesel engines ignite the fuel/air mixture with extreme compression generating enough heat to cause an explosion pushing the piston down which is the source of the rattling sound. Compare this with a normally loaded 45/70 cartridge or one filled with Bullseye pistol powder and 405 grain bullet in your "Trapdoor Springfield" rifle. Diesel engines are purpose designed and by necessity very heavy duty. I suspect the automatic transmissions were the gasoline standard and could not hold up to the diesel engines increased "low end" torque.  
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Connecting a diesel engine to a gasoline engine auto transmission makes about as much sense as hooking up a 426 Hemi engine to something like a subcompact auto trans. It ain't gonna last. I always wondered about the lack of thinking that went into that Chevy diesel engine/transmission combo, aside from the idiocy of the engine itself. And diesel engines being lower top RPM they had to do some real shade tree finagling with the gear box in that auto transmission.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    bisley said:

    I'm 100% in favor of a society that rescues physically or mentally handicapped people from living a miserable existence, but even they need incentives to do whatever they are capable of, to feel like a productive citizen.
    You brought up a good point Bisley. One good thing about a universal basic income is that for the disabled, they don't have to lose their dignity. They have a base income just like everyone else, and can choose to live off that (barely, but humanely with some dignity) or they can enter the work force in some capacity.

    I used to have a neighbor on disability. He was a total wreck physically but he enjoyed woodworking. He had a nice shop set up in his garage and when he was having good days, would work out there when he could. He did beautiful work and was a true craftsman. When he had not so good days/weeks, he didn't work out in the shop and did what he could to get by. There was no way in hell this guy could hold a job and was genuinely disabled-- he wasn't cheating the system in that aspect. He was a very kind man, a good Christian active in his church, and would help you out any way he could (when he could).

    His biggest issue was being caught working in his shop. If he was caught working out there, he was afraid that he would lose his disability payments. Any work he did for pay had to be cash and on the sly. So we had an otherwise good man that could be considered a "cheat" working in the underground economy for a few extra bucks here and there to make his life better. UBI would eliminate that.

    He was robbed the dignity of his work.

    You are making my point for me.

    Everybody, conservatives most of all, have decried that state of affairs. The things you are complaining about are the same things I was complaining about when all of the entitlements were being 'upgraded,' decades ago. We had a basic system that mostly worked, but it needed regular tweaks to correct the things that either never worked, or had become obsolete due to economic, socialogical, or technological changes. There were moderate conservatives in both parties that could occasionally agree on obvious necessities. Instead, we completely revamped things that simply needed maintenance.

    Liberals were pushing them, and conservatives were trying to amend them to prevent the very things you blame on the whole crew (Congress, that is). The exact same thing happened with conservation (now known as 'saving the planet'), welfare, educational grants, and civil rights, among other things. Republicans bowed to the 'optics' being played up by the media, giving up on all of their efforts to keep the reforms from suffering the unexpected consequences that accompany every 'new idea.'

    Where we are now is the result of opportunism, incompetence, and cowardice in the leadership of both parties, and an electorate that has either thrown up its hands in disgust, or just quit watching the depressing farce that goes on every day, in Washington.

    You have to stop the bleeding before you can begin the cure, and our federal government has been gushing the life's blood out of our economy for thirty years.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Bisley-- Scope out the new farm bill they just passed with huge bipartisan support. Socialism and chrony capitalism all rolled into one-- something for everyone!


    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    You continue to point out what is wrong, but ignore how we got there. You can argue, with perfect legitimacy, about what is happening in the government, today. But without understanding the history, you can't find a solution for it that does not include the same tactics that allowed it all to happen in the first place. No solution can be found by educating yourself in political science teachings from the same universities that have been training journalists and media functionaries for at least seven decades. They have become the establishment that they were pretending to oppose, for decades.

    The ANSWER is not to be found in the 'canned' political arguments that are the essence of 'bait and switch,' and have progressed from being a large part of the curriculum of the major universities (since the Army-McCarthy hearings), to the status quo. The universities that have historically been revered as the overseers of our political conscience are actually the perpetrators of all the efforts to neutralize the Constitution that set America apart from every country that ever existed. They have been the driving force behind all of the efforts to replace the American form of capitalism with a mish-mash of Utopian systems that represent the public face of every authoritarian elitest government that has ever taken hold, anywhere.

    This is your cue to start ridiculing my words as 'tin foil hat' conspiracy theory. There are ample canned arguments available, for just that purpose, and I can't defeat them. All I can do is appeal to your honesty to prove me wrong, by making historical arguments, from legitimate sources of your own choosing...if any can still be found. My sources came from another era, while it was happening in tiny increments that were easily 'pooh-poohed' by media and entertainment professionals.

    Yes...those of us who grew up during the Cold War just don't get it, as Alf said. Well, we actually do 'get it,' because we were raised by realists, who saw what lies beneath the Utopian regimes, on battlefields all over the world. We may lack the debating skills to convince university trained debating tricksters, but we aren't stupid.


  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    I have pretty good notions how we got to where we are, specifically the farm bill.

    You may know better than I do Bisley. Is there a conservative alternative???
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    I have pretty good notions how we got to where we are, specifically the farm bill.

    You may know better than I do Bisley. Is there a conservative alternative???
    early,

    You are probably much more able to critique it than I am. I simply haven't studied it enough to know. The fact that zero Democrats found nothing wrong with it, and only eight Republicans did, I'm inclined to guess that it is simply another piece of feel-good legislation, passed for political gain. But, I'll defer further comment until I have looked closely at it.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Bipartisan. Here is how they voted in the senate...

    Here is how they voted in the house...


    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member

    Bisley insists there's some vast socialist conspiracy driven by leftists who control the universities etc. The truth is our system is driven by those...blah, blah
    Right on cue. Thank you.

    As for what the truth is, you are not the arbiter for what that is. There are 'elements' of truth contained within any good lie. I don't deny that corporations and multi-billionaires heavily influence most of our current federal government. But, I also believe that the very people who accuse their opponents so prominently are some of the worst offenders, when anyone bothers to analyze how we got to where we are. I also believe that populist movements often defeat the establishment set-ups.

    Anyway, my previous posts indicate how my opinions fall, with regard to the elitest theory you are pushing, at present. And, as usual, you don't answer anything that isn't covered in your talking points or think tank graphs and charts.


  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    Bisley-- Scope out the new farm bill they just passed with huge bipartisan support. Socialism and chrony capitalism all rolled into one-- something for everyone!


    Just from reading your article, which is the first look I've taken at the farm bill, I would say that Republicans are taking serious heat over the trade tariffs, and that the bill is targeted at a large section of Trump supporters who are getting squeezed as a result of them.

    Tariffs are not a Republican solution, normally. But Trump got huge support for his promise to American industry to level the playing field, by using them. Frankly, there have been no decent alternative plans to do that, so I' am on the wait and see bandwagon. Tariffs are a big gamble, politically, because there is pain involved for American consumers.

    Right or wrong, or effectiveness over the long term...I don't know. What I do know is that nothing can be accomplished that will benefit the working classes, over the long term, unless the President can survive the politics of it.

    In the current environment, I'm waiting to see the effects of Trump's presidency over a long enough term to come to valid conclusions about the overall effect. All of the old 'rules' are completely 'out of whack,' so I have taken my poison in voting for Trump. and now I have to wait and see if the poison kills us, or the disease that is attacking us.



  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    It's my understanding/misunderstanding that those subsidies originated under the FDR administration. Suit case farmers, land scams, volatile crop prices, and the dust bowl being a driving influence.

    Over time as with all legislation its been hijacked by legislatures to sneek in pork barrel special interest funding. Some maybe good, some maybe not so good. Each year it gets held hostage to manipulate whatever policies pop up from our illustrious law makers.

    Maybe my thinking is wrong but inspite of the monster this bill has become, a lack of some form of regulatory direction for agriculture is frightening to me having read about farming in the first part of the twentieth century.

    This is why I asked about a conservative alternative. As Alpha pointed out there may be a bipartisan pie hocking soup that defies an answer?
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,296 Senior Member
    bisley said:
    Bisley-- Scope out the new farm bill they just passed with huge bipartisan support. Socialism and chrony capitalism all rolled into one-- something for everyone!


    Just from reading your article, which is the first look I've taken at the farm bill, I would say that Republicans are taking serious heat over the trade tariffs, and that the bill is targeted at a large section of Trump supporters who are getting squeezed as a result of them.




    This, we had excellent harvest yields in MN in my area, not records, but more than adequate, I am seeing another round of dairy farmers selling their herds, their kids are not wanting to deal with the uncertainty and they see how beat up their parents are from the lifestyle. Alph's comments on farmer income should be taken with a grain of salt, there is a lot of wiggle room on the P&L sheet on a farm to make it look anyway you want, lots of kids qualify for free lunch/breakfast at school, subsidized insurance, and financial aid and they don't dress or drive like they are hurting that bad
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    Two generations of my family were in the midst of all that during FDR's 4 terms. They called it the soil bank program, and although they generally liked FDR, they didn't especially like being limited to 40 acres for each different crop - usually, peanuts, wheat, oats, etc. because it ignored so many factors involved in succeeding with a particular crop.

    Many times, they would want to double up on a particular crop, due to weather and availability of labor situations, but had to adapt to the program and grow a lower yielding crop. Basically, they appreciated the 'good intentions,' when they were farming smaller farms, with mules, but wanted the government out of their hair, after upgrading to 9N Ford tractors, and larger farms.

    The government was always behind the curve, when trying to control agriculture, which they understood very little about.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    That farm bill smells like an uncleaned hog feedlot.

    Anyway, seems like EVERYBODY AND THEIR BROTHER bitches about the farmers getting some help to survive. And they usually do that griping and whining while sitting at a table and stuffing their faces with food. Since most of all y'all don't follow farm stuff, here's a wakeup call. Chapter 12 farm bankruptcies on the rise. And if you weren't around/not old enough to remember the massive farm bankruptcies in the early 1980s, then you might want to Google that and see the aftermath.

    https://thehill.com/policy/finance/418263-farm-bankruptcies-on-the-rise-according-to-new-fed-report

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/farm-bankruptcies-in-the-upper-midwest-have-jumped-in-one-chart-2018-11-27

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2018/11/29/heres-why-more-american-farms-are-going-bankrupt/#3a23fbfe65a7

    Now why would you care about that? Well, a lot of those bankruptcies will end with the farms being sold off to satisfy the debt. And they will be sold off in small 5+ acre "baby farms" for the city folk to enjoy 'country living', and bitch about the animal smells and their little snowflake children having to observe animals having sex in front of God and everybody! OMG!!!!! Seeing animals makin' Whoopee right out in public! The snowflake children will all have to have therapy for their animal sex watching induced PTSD!

    Seriously, once farmland is sold and broken up into these small lots, it will never be put into food production again, be it crops or livestock. That translates to X% less food in the pipeline. That ends up, over time, making prices for food go up dramatically.

    Most of the pecan crop in the U.S. is grown in South GA. In case you weren't paying attention, hurricane Michael went through South GA like a dose of Epsom salts through your alimentary canal and destroyed at least 30% of the crop, maybe more. And that's the surface; many, MANY pecan trees were destroyed and others damaged beyond saving. Pecan trees planted now won't produce for years, so I don't want to hear any griping about your holiday pecan pies costing more now and a few years ahead. If ya got the kale to buy a $70,000 half ton pickup then you can afford the price increase on your freakin' pecan pie.

    And pecans aren't the ONLY CROP that hurricane Michael destroyed. Lots of other crops in FL and GA and further North got hammered. But it's only farmers that got hurt so that doesn't count in the big scheme of things, I guess. You don't know desperation and fear until you've seen your entire years income evaporate before your eyes, and having bills coming due for that crop. And crop insurance won't come near paying you out of the hole. Crop insurance is another Federal subsidy program that probably needs canceling so we have more $$$$$$$ to help those that wouldn't work as taste testers in a pie factory.

    And, BTW, dairy farmers are going out of business from bankruptcy at a prodigious rate this year. I also don't want to hear any griping and complaining about milk price rises in the near future because of that, either.

      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    These three above replies are exactly why I asked, and also illustrate my fears of not having any regulatory direction.

    I think my fears are shared by alot of people who can see the connection between life and agriculture.

    This is why this bill has been hijacked and manipulated like it has. Alot of content in Jerm's article covers things seemingly unrelated to agriculture.

    Im sure many of the policies originally intended to help were object failures. Looking from then to now, one must wonder how much of what's current is intended to help, and help who? I don't pretend to know, but I for sure am interested in finding out.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    In specific response to Bisley scoffing at my "elitist theory", here's a useful annecdote from my new job.
    In specific response..? Don't make me laugh.

    Nice anecdote piling on with more of what is wrong, but hardly responsive to anybody asking for a solution to it, or how it got that way.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    bisley said:
    You continue to point out what is wrong, but ignore how we got there. You can argue, with perfect legitimacy, about what is happening in the government, today. But without understanding the history, you can't find a solution for it that does not include the same tactics that allowed it all to happen in the first place. No solution can be found by educating yourself in political science teachings from the same universities that have been training journalists and media functionaries for at least seven decades. They have become the establishment that they were pretending to oppose, for decades.

    The ANSWER is not to be found in the 'canned' political arguments that are the essence of 'bait and switch,' and have progressed from being a large part of the curriculum of the major universities (since the Army-McCarthy hearings), to the status quo. The universities that have historically been revered as the overseers of our political conscience are actually the perpetrators of all the efforts to neutralize the Constitution that set America apart from every country that ever existed. They have been the driving force behind all of the efforts to replace the American form of capitalism with a mish-mash of Utopian systems that represent the public face of every authoritarian elitest government that has ever taken hold, anywhere.

    This is your cue to start ridiculing my words as 'tin foil hat' conspiracy theory. There are ample canned arguments available, for just that purpose, and I can't defeat them. All I can do is appeal to your honesty to prove me wrong, by making historical arguments, from legitimate sources of your own choosing...if any can still be found. My sources came from another era, while it was happening in tiny increments that were easily 'pooh-poohed' by media and entertainment professionals.

    Yes...those of us who grew up during the Cold War just don't get it, as Alf said. Well, we actually do 'get it,' because we were raised by realists, who saw what lies beneath the Utopian regimes, on battlefields all over the world. We may lack the debating skills to convince university trained debating tricksters, but we aren't stupid.


    Let me see... I were to look beyond my completely obvious conclusion (one of those big brain college terms, "Occam's razor") that the rich and powerful in this country are influencing politics to enrich themselves at a cost to the middle, working, and lower classes...

    Being a child of the Cold War myself, I would speculate that the socialists infiltrated and took over both political parties because now we have Democrats and Republicans pushing the socialist agenda. In addition, they have indoctrinated not just our children, but all of us during the Cold War. Everyone was taught what to think, not how to think. They were pretty successful because most people believe that they really do have a choice when they are both the same damn thing and have them spewing out the dogma that they were force fed. They throw out little distractions like some jackass kneeling during a football game to make us think there are ideological differences. And the ones that slipped through the cracks and can still think for themselves, (people thinking for themselves is a very dangerous thing for those socialists) they started a campaign of anti-intellectualism in order to discredit people with minds of their own.

    That would go a long way to explain why we elected a socialist president with a socialist senate and socialist house.  
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    Also,
    I doubt anyone here is advocating a utopian solution. A reduction in the mass flood of wealth transfer would be acceptable. Whether that happens from UBI or simple restrictions on big money lobbying, as long as it happens.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member

    See everyone loves some brand of socialism or another! 

    Since climate change is a hoax and doesn't really exist I shouldn't mention how if it did exit it would make many of the things mentioned above way worse.
    I expected a snarky nonsense response, and right on cue you delivered.

    Your kind, loving, and benevolent Federal government has been screwing with agriculture and micromanaging it for WELL over 100 years, and screwing up everything in the process. Why don't you do some study on the sugar subsidy and how it came about. (Hint: Spanish American War) Or the government control on the growing of tobacco, wheat, corn, oats, and a lot of other crops. And why you can't grow and grind your own wheat for bread. YOUR loving government is responsible for that because they went outside their clearly defined areas of responsibility clearly defined in the Constitution and meddled where they shouldn't. Just like they have in  many other areas of PRIVATE ENTERPRISE. The government has broken the agricultural industry and it is their responsibility to fix what they broke. If enough farmers go bankrupt then you can boil your air Nikes for soup! :D
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    ...and they have been doing it with the rest of our industries Tennmike. And why do they do it? Because it lines the pockets of their moneyed interests. Most of the benefits you are going to see in this farm bill are going out to Big Ag-- not the mom and pop small business. Just like when they do this in other industries. It is designed to give their contributors an unfair advantage to the extent where the little guys can't compete. 
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    bisley said:
    In specific response to Bisley scoffing at my "elitist theory", here's a useful annecdote from my new job.
    In specific response..? Don't make me laugh.

    Nice anecdote piling on with more of what is wrong, but hardly responsive to anybody asking for a solution to it, or how it got that way.
    I've provided lots of suggested solutions. How many have you come up with? 
    The only one of yours I've seen was your Obamacare commercial. All of your solutions (and they are few) are the same old stuff I can find some wall-eyed leftist  on MSNBC or CNN spouting every day.

    The first part of my solution is to stop electing corrupt politicians - no small accomplishment, if it can even be done. Once that is done, any intelligent and experienced businessman, engineer, military man, or just a good manager of nearly anything, can start fixing it, one logical step at a time by finding the right people to get it done. First, stop the political chaos, and then do simple things that actually work, for a change.

    Voters have to solve (or at least improve) this problem at the voting booth, and it will take just as long to replace the low-lifes in politics as it took for them to gain power in the first place. Donald Trump has tried it for the past two years, and some of it is working. But the baggage he brought with him may be his undoing, and he doesn't have enough support from his own party. Reaching out to the opposition will be his undoing, if he tries it, because they viscerally hate him, and won't allow him to succeed if they can manage it. A man with his guts and the support of his party might succeed, if he is pure enough to be invulnerable to the character assassination games.

    In the final analysis, I guess we are all fools, making fool's arguments to other fools who don't read them, anyway. But it passes the time, and maybe someone will read them and do some research of their own, to see who is right. I post because I am old enough to know it doesn't have to be like this, but I don't have the answers. I just know (or at least believe) that our political process is very close to becoming worthless, without some serious trend reversals.


  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    See everyone loves some brand of socialism or another! 

    Since climate change is a hoax and doesn't really exist I shouldn't mention how if it did exit it would make many of the things mentioned above way worse.
    I was going to let that global warming/global cooling/climate thing lie there, but I can't. YOU believe everything they say about climate change, so explain this. 15 YEARS AGO AL GORE SAID THE ARCTIC ICE SHEET WOULD BE MELTED. HIS 'consensus of scientists' said so. It's 10 years since that ice was supposed to disappear, yet the ice has returned, thickened, and extended past where it was when Al made his lying, sniveling, money grubbing (carbon credits) prediction. He also pontificated on the Antarctic ice shelf and big hunks breaking off and studiously avoided mentioning the absolute FACT that there are active volcanic vents under the water where the ice broke off. And some very energetic volcanic activity under the MILES THICK ICE on the Antarctic interior ice sheet. His figures lie because he's a (lots of expletives deleted) liar that figures, and he figures to line his pockets with MORE carbon credits sales.

    And if the 'science is settled' and the climate model is perfect and infallible, then why do these three separate predictions of climate change due to the Solar Minimum vary so wildly in predicted result? Your 'climate scientists' are at odds with each other on the solar minimum effects. And if their modeling was/is so perfect then why didn't they see this possible extended solar minimum coming and warn us about it 10 years ago?




    If the science is 'settled' ten why wasn't this predicted and why the disparate opinions on the effects? Sounds like they don't know whether to poop or go wind their watches! :D
    The Sun said, "Stupid humans think THEY control the weather! Hold my beer and watch this!"

    Show me a climate model that will give the exact same results within 0.001% over 1,000 runs of the program and I might say that you're on to something. Otherwise your 'climate scientists' are just running after government grants and giving the govt's the results they want to redistribute wealth.

    Speaking of wealth redistribution, your high tech batteries you bloviate about use a lot of cobalt, and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) uses basically child slave labor to mine it. They don't get much $$ for mining it, though. Beaten regularly, and paid poorly. I guess not being directly involved in that is O.K. as long as the batteries get built? China owns a lot of those mines, along with a lot of rights to lots of strategic metals used in batteries and those bird killing wind generators.



      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    I have no idea why I bother to look up links to this stuff. Nobody reads them.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    That is one of those wedge/distraction issues Tennmike.

    "Never mind what I am sticking in your rear end...hey... look... a squirrel!"
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
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