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Border Security Shut-down

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  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    A little background on why we are here right now if you want to read it. The senate passed a spending bill with the administration's implied blessings on 12/20, then hours after it was unanimously passed in the senate with Republicans putting themselves out there, the administration reversed itself from that position-- I think that is why McConnell has refrained from bringing anything else up for a vote. He is pissed off that he got burnt.


    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    edited January 2019 #334
    Diver43 said:
    Month?  **** are you thinking. There are people already wondering where milk and diapers are coming from. How many paychecks do you think people at the GS-6 WG-6 can miss? 
    They better fix this soon.
    We have my Military money and working DOD i am getting paid.  What about the people with one income not getting paid?
    Remember this next year.Specifically the last sentence...

    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    edited January 2019 #335
    "To physically secure our border, the plan includes $5.7 billion for a strategic deployment of physical barriers, or a wall. This is not a 2,000-mile concrete structure from sea to sea. These are steel barriers in high-priority locations."   --Donald Trump

    After 14 pages of this crap, he finally said this! About damn time. This is what I agree with. Why did it have to be this freaking difficult?
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,368 Senior Member
    If the Dems don't deal now, they're more interested in brinksmanship than governing.

    The above statement in no way condones the attempted brinksmanship of the POTUS.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,348 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Month?  **** are you thinking. There are people already wondering where milk and diapers are coming from. How many paychecks do you think people at the GS-6 WG-6 can miss? 
    They better fix this soon.
    We have my Military money and working DOD i am getting paid.  What about the people with one income not getting paid?
    Oh believe me I know. There's a reason I no longer work somewhere that is dependent upon federal budgets, but unlike feds, those of us who worked on the contractor side don't get back pay. I've probably lost a good $30k in income over the years between government shutdowns, furloughs because someone on one side or the other of a contract couldn't get their crap together etc. 
    Just how old are you, that you were effected by that many furlough days?
    There was no such thing before 1990

    Under Clinton there was 5 and 21 day shutdowns, then under Obama 16.
    Those include weekends, which few office people work. And your type say Trump inflates figures, jeez
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,996 Senior Member
    It's almost like the government workers are being exploited.

    My team exploits more righteously than yours??????
    The border wall mess mirrors the Kavagnaugh confirmation in that both are nothing more than the Dems doing anything they can to avoid handing Trump any kind of a "win".

    It's rather interesting psychology - making people go unpaid and hungry to get them to come over to your side.


    Anybody got a better suggestion than this?

    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,368 Senior Member
    Its actually significantly different than the SCOTUS confirmation in that the confirmation mess was minority obstructionism.

    The Democrats in the instance of the wall mess won a significant increase in voice last November. The constituency that put them there matter regardless of political bias. 

    This does not validate the shut down or the power struggle at the expense of the electorate. It does put greater onus on the top executive to lead. Failure to do so will find no favor with me.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,787 Senior Member
    Personally, I'm sorry for all the folks who are furloughed or are working without a paycheck, and I know how it is that even very objective people can become embittered by government foolishness that deprives them of the standard of living they are accustomed to.

    But, there was a time when Civil Service employees had to be concerned about the same sort of politicians closing military bases to balance the defense budget. My dad was pushing 50, a veteran of two wars and a first rate aircraft mechanic, when Robert McNamara and LBJ closed the air base he had been working at since he had returned from Korea, in 1952.

    You can say this is different, for sure, but you can't deny that it came down to fights over how to spend tax money. The two parties were fussing over whether the tax money should go for entitlement programs or military funding. We were at the height of military activity in Viet Nam, and in the middle of Ladybird's Great Society experiment. My dad had to hustle for odd jobs, in a local economy that had been devastated by the relocation of thousands of Air Force Personnel and the unemployment of hundreds of Civil Service workers, until the city bought the federal land for one dollar, and brought Bell Helicopter in. When I graduated HS, a couple years later, there were zero jobs, so I hit the road looking for greener pastures.

    I'm only saying that hard-working people have always been at the mercy of politicians, if they choose to take a job with the government.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    Said what exactly? The same thing he's been saying since day one? 
    Placing barriers in strategic locations. That means he changed his tune from a down payment on a continuous barrier along the entire border (which is stupid) to certain areas where our experts have determined they will be effective-- accompanied with manpower and technology (in other words, a system).


    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,348 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Diver43 said:
    Month?  **** are you thinking. There are people already wondering where milk and diapers are coming from. How many paychecks do you think people at the GS-6 WG-6 can miss? 
    They better fix this soon.
    We have my Military money and working DOD i am getting paid.  What about the people with one income not getting paid?
    Oh believe me I know. There's a reason I no longer work somewhere that is dependent upon federal budgets, but unlike feds, those of us who worked on the contractor side don't get back pay. I've probably lost a good $30k in income over the years between government shutdowns, furloughs because someone on one side or the other of a contract couldn't get their crap together etc. 
    Just how old are you, that you were effected by that many furlough days?
    There was no such thing before 1990

    Under Clinton there was 5 and 21 day shutdowns, then under Obama 16.
    Those include weekends, which few office people work. And your type say Trump inflates figures, jeez
    As a contractor it's not completely dependent upon congress screwing stuff up but yes I was furloughed for a couple weeks during one of the Obama shutdowns. I also had to take unpaid time off when someone in a finance office sent money we were owed for a project to the wrong lab. Most recently my whole team with the navy were furloughed unexpectedly for over 2 months because the COR decided to have a hissy fit and issue a stop work because he doesn't know how to read a contract that he wrote in the first place! More than likely my old company will sue and get paid, but I'm SOL and won't see a cent of it. Thus the major reason I left and am much happier not having my life jerked around by incompetent bureaucrats.
    Alpha your time off has nothing to do with a Gov. Shutdown.  UndernObama there was a total of 8 days
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,348 Senior Member
    Any official word on what Pelosi and Schumer say.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Any official word on what Pelosi and Schumer say.
    Their current narrative is that they will not negotiate until the government shutdown ends.

    McConnell will be taking up spending bills in the senate starting Tuesday (finally). I am sure something will happen to get this up and going next week.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 22,984 Senior Member
    I'd like to know who died and made Pelosi Queen of the Universe...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    Speaker of the House is a pretty powerful position. Just saying.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,348 Senior Member
    Yup. Not sure how she got re elected let alone remains speaker.  I would love to see an investigation on her.  As she get older and she is old, she is making mistakes that are not mentioned.  I am sure she has made many on both parties rich over the years, that's why nobody says much
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,105 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Yup. Not sure how she got re elected let alone remains speaker.  I would love to see an investigation on her.  As she get older and she is old, she is making mistakes that are not mentioned.  I am sure she has made many on both parties rich over the years, that's why nobody says much
    Since she entered the House way back when she's accumulated over $190,000,000 on a less that $200,000 Congressional Salary. Something like 32 years in Congress. NO WAY her salary accumulated that kind of money inthat time period from 1987 to now. Yeah, she and a LOT of both the House and Senate on BOTH sides of the aisle need to be investigated. MOST members that have been there for a few terms suddenly became millionaires.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,348 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    Diver43 said:
    Yup. Not sure how she got re elected let alone remains speaker.  I would love to see an investigation on her.  As she get older and she is old, she is making mistakes that are not mentioned.  I am sure she has made many on both parties rich over the years, that's why nobody says much
    Since she entered the House way back when she's accumulated over $190,000,000 on a less that $200,000 Congressional Salary. Something like 32 years in Congress. NO WAY her salary accumulated that kind of money inthat time period from 1987 to now. Yeah, she and a LOT of both the House and Senate on BOTH sides of the aisle need to be investigated. MOST members that have been there for a few terms suddenly became millionaires.
    A lot of Pelosi"s money came from all the money her husbands company has made from ludicrous contracts.  One can make a lot of money when you know what company is going to get which contract.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,564 Senior Member
    YOU WIN THE INTERNET!!!!!
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • rberglofrberglof Senior Member Posts: 2,619 Senior Member
    Isn't that the same way feinstein has become ultra rich?
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,348 Senior Member
    rberglof said:
    Isn't that the same way feinstein has become ultra rich?
    I bet zorba knows more detail, but I am pretty sure her deal was with husband and the fast train from SF to LA that shares the same speed limit tracks as freight for most of the trip, nearly 900mil if I remember right. And contracts to somehow fix USPS.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,787 Senior Member
    Politics are corrupt, by their nature, and many of the younger members who have not made their fortunes before getting into politics, get sucked into the sleazy deals, by increments. Their colleagues will set them up for it, if they don't stumble into it, by accident. Most of the ones who go in honest, and stay that way, get out voluntarily, or they get defeated after one or two terms. The ones who stay rationalize that they have to 'play the game' to get anything done. The worst offenders are usually the ones who accuse their colleagues the loudest.

    Term limits could help, but we aren't likely to ever know that, for sure. Only single-termers would ever vote it into law. Maybe, someday we will have a populist movement whose single issue is simply to serve one term for the sole purpose of instituting it. Even then, a lot of them would renege, once leadership got them by the throat.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 22,984 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    I bet zorba knows more detail, but I am pretty sure her deal was with husband and the fast train from SF to LA that shares the same speed limit tracks as freight for most of the trip, nearly 900mil if I remember right. And contracts to somehow fix USPS.
    Nope, I have no idea. Feinstein was apparently a pretty decent mayor of SF back in the day - at least my wife thinks so.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,105 Senior Member
    Feinstein has been making millions on deals with China. Maybe her Chinese driver, who was incidentally also a spy, got some goodies from the Defense Department through Feinstein, either by her idiocy or active participation.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • rberglofrberglof Senior Member Posts: 2,619 Senior Member

    Dianne Feinstein’s Husband Wins Near-Billion Dollar California ‘High Speed Rail’ Contract

    and a little farther back.

    URS Corp., a San Francisco planning and engineering firm partially owned by California Sen. Dianne Feinstein's husband, landed an Army contract Monday worth up to $600 million.

  • GilaGila Posts: 1,826 Senior Member
    Here's another reason for the wall (or barrier/fence if that floats your boat).  In areas where it does exist, it needs serious repair and upgrading.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/21/terrorism-suspect-caught-us-mexico-border-roils-im/
    No good deed goes unpunished...
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,105 Senior Member
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    If walls worked, we wouldn't have had that problem. That is what I have been trying to tell you guys.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,105 Senior Member
    If walls worked, we wouldn't have had that problem. That is what I have been trying to tell you guys.
    There you go with that 'the wall/steel slat barrier/fencing is all that is wanted and won't work". I already laid out the fact that foot traffic sensors are also needed, and they ALSO provide data that tunneling is in progress. WHAT PART OF WE NEED A MULTI PRONGED ATTACK ON THE PROBLEM THAT INCLUDES A BARRIER, SENSORS, AERIAL ASSETS, AND BP/ICE STAGED CLOSELY TOGETHER AND AT THE BORDER IS GOING OVER YOUR HEAD?

    I can't find my post on this, so ONE MORE TIME. READ for information and NOT JUST SCAN to reply with a witty rebuttal.

    The U.S-Mexico border is app. 1954 miles long. Place BP outposts every 15 miles along the border for a total of 130 outpost buildings. (1954/15=130.2 for the math challenged). Grade and maintain roads along the border for fast response from BP/ICE to border incursions. Build fencing and barriers along border where needed. PLACE NEWEST GENERATION SENSORS ALONG BORDER TO DETECT FOOT TRAFFIC AND TUNNELING ACTIVITY AND HAVE THAT DATA TRANSMITTED TO THE BP/ICE outpost buildings. These sensors were used back as long ago as the Vietnam war and they damn well worked. The new ones are WAAAAAY ahead in sensitivity and longevity. At only 15 miles between outposts, there could be at least three of the 4 man outposts that could respond immediately to any incursion.

    Personnel needed. 130 outposts multiplied by 16 men per outpost to cover 4 man rotating shifts would require 2,080 personnel. Did the math for ya again.

    Lightweight UAV's with infrared and ground radar can be used both day and night to detect any foot traffic heading towards the border. We've been using them for a long time now, and the unarmed ones are very light and have a very long time in the air before return to refuel is needed. These UAVs could give the outposts plenty of time to go to the indicated point the illegals are heading to and get them before they can cross and disappear.

    CAN YOU SEE IT YET? NOT JUST A WALL/FENCE/BARRIER. A MULTIFACETED APPROACH TO DETECT, INTERDICT, AND APPREHEND.

    You have griped a lot about the border wall/barriers/fence AND HAVE YET TO OFFER ANY SOLUTION. That's the same thing the Democrats have been using, and a LOT of them are from states that profit from the illegal labor and the child sex trafficking, and the massive drug trade that flows across the border. And a lot of that comes across the border at other than the ports of entry.

    I've laid it out so that anyone should be able to understand it. There are additions to what I laid out, including a revamped immigration set of laws and real punishment for illegal entry. READ IT and tell me again that I'm wrong and it wouldn't work.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 22,984 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    And the subtle PC newspeak - the title is "migrants", not any mention whatsoever of the illegality of it.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
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