Bird shot for home defense

tennmiketennmike Senior MemberPosts: 26,364 Senior Member
This video isn't just a discussion on bird shot for home defense; it's a shooting exercise using both paper targets and a pork shoulder and rack of ribs to show the effectiveness of birdshot at close range.


Kind of an ugly wound channel.

If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



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Replies

  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,447 Senior Member
    Inside of 10-15' it is DEVASTATING
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,052 Senior Member
    I have been saying so for years and have been po poed by most that
    cannot get their head out of the buck shot mode and there is no requirement to use 7.5
    shot, as well.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 4,249 Senior Member
    In my testing of different types of shot shells, bird shot penetrated nearly as much as buck shot with the difference appearing negligible to my amateur eyes. So I concluded that the only advantage to bird shot was less recoil and not less penetration for indoor use.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,262 Senior Member
    edited January 7 #5
    For my purposes, like buckshot, birdshot is too limited. Hell, I cringe at the thought of using buckshot!!  It sucks that bad.......outside it’s narrow window. 

    But, I load it in one gun for a specific reason. 

    So, if buckshot is unacceptably limited to me, birdshot is abhorrent. The window is too narrow for it to be a viable tool in my toolbox of defense. 

    Now, that don’t mean I wouldn’t go to town on someone with a case of 6 shot if that’s all I had in the gun. Intentionally load it in the gun if I had other options? Hell no!!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,262 Senior Member
    Guess I need to shoot a pig with some. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,950 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    For my purposes, like buckshot, birdshot is too limited. Hell, I cringe at the thought of using buckshot!!  It sucks that bad.......outside it’s narrow window. 

    But, I load it in one gun for a specific reason. 

    So, if buckshot is unacceptably limited to me, birdshot is abhorrent. The window is too narrow for it to be a viable tool in my toolbox of defense. 

    Now, that don’t mean I wouldn’t go to town on someone with a case of 6 shot if that’s all I had in the gun. Intentionally load it in the gun if I had other options? Hell no!!
    What would you recommend one load their defensive shotgun with then? Slugs? Or are you saying the conventional wisdom that a shotgun is a decent HD firearm is poor?

    Not denying that a well equipped AR with SD ammo like TAP is probably the ideal, but given that far more people have a shotgun in the house than an AR, that doesn't work for everyone. Although I guess given current prices maybe everyone should have an AR in the home.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,262 Senior Member
    edited January 7 #8
    I am by no means against a shotgun for HD. In fact, I have two of them for such use in two places of my house. 

    I do personally not choose to limit the tool with such a restrictive concept and load as to only be used/effective at “room distance”. 

    There is more to my house and curtilege than just room distance.   What if I step out of my room and have to shoot across my dwelling and down the hall 15-20yards to the back side of my kids room to get an assailant off my kid?  

    Bird shot?  No. 

    What if a man or beast gets in my yard and are attacking my kids while they are out playing?  The distance is too great to ever consider such a limiting load in any of my shotguns. 

    If you live in a box or have no reason to leave your room in event of a break in. Choosing to hold and wait, aiming in close proximity at your door.........bird shot will likely administer the “bad decision bug” to most would be evil doers. 

    I don’t have that option. 

    I have slugs in one where I am likely to grab and move and 00 Buck in another where I am likely stationary and not removing the gun sock from coverage. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,034 Senior Member
    edited January 7 #9
    If bird shot's all you got well use it, but I like a .357 Mag or something on that order better. If you got a simple shot to make and it's within 10-15 yards Bird Shot will shake the dogs off. But like zee pointed out, if he's trying to knock somebody off his kid he needs something more precise and powerful enough to get the attacker's attention or rather discourage him from further aggression (Knock 'em on his ass).
     Only problem, you don't have the luxury of knowing what situation you will be in until the caca hits the fan so you gotta be ready for the worst case scenario before hand. And bird shot isn't the answer to all situations.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,052 Senior Member
    I thought the whole point of this thread was that bird shot can be used for across the room and it will work-----not that any other shotshell loadings are wrong.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 21,262 Senior Member
    So, what’s your point?

    😎
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,767 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Guess I need to shoot a pig with some. 
    Yes.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,374 Senior Member
    I have seen plenty of wounds inflicted by a variety of bird shot....at across the room distances it certainly seems capable of stopping a bad guy from doing what they are doing...the wounds tend to be large and on the grisly side....

    That being said, Were I to purposefully load bird shot for home defense it would certainly be nothing smaller than BB....but in the real world I use #4 Buck in one shotgun and a combination of slugs and 00 in the other...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 4,249 Senior Member
    I wonder if anyone's used actual birds for home defense???🐦

    Might be more sanitary for use as yard defense???🐦
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,127 Senior Member
    Only real option I have for my shotgun is target loads.  For this reason I leave the full choke tube in it.  I have tried slugs in the past for deer season and gave up when I couldnt get the gun to shot very well with the commercially available modern stuff.  Kinda limited with a 20ga though.
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,493 Senior Member
    I use 2 #4 bird first and the other 6 00 buck.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,364 Senior Member
    Living out in the country I don't really have to worry about over penetration of slugs, and that is what my Mossberg 500 with the 18 1/4 inch cylinder bore barrel is loaded with. No place to hide from a high brass 1 oz. slug in a house.

    That said, I've shot some animals with #2 shot, mostly dogs, from 5 feet to about 10 yards and was never disappointed with the outcome. To explain that shooting dogs, a dog comes in my yard that I don't know and wants to chew on me, I go back in the house and get the Remington shotgun with modified choke that I keep loaded with #2 shotshells I've reloaded. The dog has the option of leaving or becoming compost.

    I've also used 00 Buck on dogs running cattle. It works well if the dogs are within 10 yards, and my cattle had to go through a pinch point from one field to another, so I had shots within 10 yards and closer. It works well at that distance. The field distances I've shot animals with #2 lead and 00 Buck say both would work in a home. Up to 30 feet, both leave a ground hamburger looking wound, especially the bird shot. Both will penetrate one or more walls, though, so that might be a concern if others are in the house.

    Use what you feel comfortable with in your shotgun for HD, and don't be shy about having a pistol on you just in case the shotgun isn't getting the job done.

    I only provided the link to show what is realistic about birdshot for HD, and in no way said it was the do all be all for HD. Only wanted to show some empirical evidence of penetration and shot dispersal at most home distances.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,294 Senior Member
    Some choose to be hand-wringinly paranoid about penetrating too much when you miss.

    I choose to be hand-wringingly paranoid about not penetrating enough when I hit.

    What fascinates me about this argument is that nobody seems to worry about barrier penetration from a .32 or .380 auto pocket pistol, yet they go into conniptions at the thought of defending the homestead with 00 buck.  Which I find really odd because the buckshot load is doing nothing more and nothing less than firing an entire magazine of .32 or .380 with one trigger press. . .from a platform that is much easier to shoot accurately.


    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,950 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    I am by no means against a shotgun for HD. In fact, I have two of them for such use in two places of my house. 

    I do personally not choose to limit the tool with such a restrictive concept and load as to only be used/effective at “room distance”. 

    There is more to my house and curtilege than just room distance.   What if I step out of my room and have to shoot across my dwelling and down the hall 15-20yards to the back side of my kids room to get an assailant off my kid?  

    Bird shot?  No. 

    What if a man or beast gets in my yard and are attacking my kids while they are out playing?  The distance is too great to ever consider such a limiting load in any of my shotguns. 

    If you live in a box or have no reason to leave your room in event of a break in. Choosing to hold and wait, aiming in close proximity at your door.........bird shot will likely administer the “bad decision bug” to most would be evil doers. 

    I don’t have that option. 

    I have slugs in one where I am likely to grab and move and 00 Buck in another where I am likely stationary and not removing the gun sock from coverage. 
    Thanks for the clarification, makes sense.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • das68das68 Posts: 662 Senior Member
    I wonder if anyone's used actual birds for home defense???🐦

    Might be more sanitary for use as yard defense???🐦

    we have comparatively tame swans on our stretch of canal, a few do not like strangers near the narrow boats

    some are big buggers








  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 2,684 Senior Member
    I have a tactical 410 Gauge pump double that's all powerful and it's all I will ever need.

    If I ever need a backup, I gots a 22.



    And lots of duck 🦆 tape.
    Beware of false knowledge -- it is often more dangerous than ignorance.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,374 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    I have a tactical 410 Gauge pump double that's all powerful and it's all I will ever need.

    If I ever need a backup, I gots a 22.



    And lots of duck 🦆 tape.
    But only with copper-washed shot...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 2,684 Senior Member
    🍿
    Beware of false knowledge -- it is often more dangerous than ignorance.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,605 Senior Member
    edited January 8 #24
    I think it's fine in my home, which the max range is measured in feet, not yards.  I live alone, have no kids, and don't worry about penetration.  Truth be told, I don't worry too much about bad guys.  I don't use it for my only pump gun, (a S&WI) el cheapo) I use low recoil 00 buck because....well, I don't have a good reason.  I depend on my cat for early warning...he's an attack cat.  If the bad guy gets past Chester, I figure on doing the job with whatever is at hand.  Right now, it's a .32 PPK.  Don't want to damage my hearing with a shotgun.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 2,684 Senior Member
    I have a lazy ass Russian Grey that patrols the outside, more of a throw-cat than anything else. I know he's on patrol because I have security cameras around the property. The inner perimeter is guarded by dogs and those boys are guarded by me. It's a happy arrangement.
     ;) 
    Beware of false knowledge -- it is often more dangerous than ignorance.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,955 Senior Member
    edited January 9 #26
    We have a lazy Norwegian Forest Cat that at any given moment is laying on my 9mm. Or the.357..or the.380. 

    I'm more afraid of attempting to grab a weapon than I am of a creak from downstairs.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,493 Senior Member
    We have a lazy Norwegian Forest Cat that at any given moment is laying on my 9mm. Or the.357..or the.380. 

    I'm more afraid of attempting to grab a weapon than I am of a creak from downstairs.

    Mike
      That made me laugh hysterically being a cat person!
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 1,057 Senior Member
    I have a plethora of guns to choose from, but I think our German Shepard would make quick work out of a bad guy if someone comes in the house. It would also buy me some time to grab either my AR, 20 gauge or XDs45. As for bird shot, I’ve seen it totally obliterate small game and wouldn’t hesitate to use it in a pinch.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,034 Senior Member
    Michakav said:
    I use 2 #4 bird first and the other 6 00 buck.
    This...
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,364 Senior Member
    We have a lazy Norwegian Forest Cat that at any given moment is laying on my 9mm. Or the.357..or the.380. 

    I'm more afraid of attempting to grab a weapon than I am of a creak from downstairs.

    Mike
    LOL! Reaching for the pistol and touching the cats belly would be/could be interesting. Trying to fend off an intruder while simultaneously having one hand sliced by a bunch of razor blades! It would be safer to just throw the cat in the intruder's face and watch the show!
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,127 Senior Member
    thats a big cat to throw.  Its against city ordinance where I live but a Serval would make for a good anti intruder device.
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