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Judge strikes down Trump administration's plan to add a citizenship question to 2020 Census

tennmiketennmike Senior MemberPosts: 27,398 Senior Member
This is proof that the Democrats and liberal judges want to use illegal aliens as voters, and more insidiously, to use illegal aliens in the census count to apportion new seats in the U.S. House of Representatives. The Census is used to figure the population of a state and to apportion new seats to the House when the population reaches the level for new ones. If you don't think app. 20 million new Democrat voters can't skew an election then you're living in a world of rainbows and unicorn farts.

Here's part of it. Go to the website and read the full article.


WASHINGTON – A federal district judge Tuesday struck down the Trump administration’s plan to add a question on citizenship to the 2020 Census, ruling that Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross exceeded his authority under federal law. 

The much-awaited decision by Judge Jesse Furman is likely to wind up at the Supreme Court, which next month is scheduled to consider a portion of the case – whether Ross can be required to give a deposition about the reasons for his decision. But Furman’s ruling temporarily makes that question moot.

Ross announced the addition of the citizenship question last March, but it has been tied up by a half dozen lawsuits. The government has not asked about individuals' citizenship on the Census since 1950.

Opponents, including California, New York, the American Civil Liberties Union and immigration rights groups, contend fears of deportation among undocumented immigrants will cause them to be undercounted

In his 277-page ruling, Judge Furman discounted Ross's contention that he made his decision based on the Justice Department's request. Instead, Furman said, Ross opted for the citizenship question for other reasons and then tried to conceal his motives by getting the Justice Department to ask for it.



  I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
― Douglas Adams
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Replies

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,667 Senior Member
    Incredible. Just incredible.
    "California & New York". Uh-huh.

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,926 Senior Member
    What makes anyone think that an illegal would answer the question truthfully in the first place?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,398 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    What makes anyone think that an illegal would answer the question truthfully in the first place?
    Another reason for draconian laws on illegal immigration and fast track deportment.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    I didn't need any proof. Gerrymandering has become part of normal election process. Soliciting foreign intervention is on the fast track. Why not seed the polls??? It's not like there's no profit motive.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    Good.


    The govt has no right to ask ANY question on the census other than "how many people live here"


    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,921 Senior Member
    Good.


    The govt has no right to ask ANY question on the census other than "how many people live here"


    Not sure I agree with that.  Here in South Florida, we have people from everywhere it get cold come here for the winter. Right near me in Hollywood, Fl, condos sit empty until right around Thanksgiving and right around Easter are empty again.  Most of them are owned and or ;eased by Canadians not Americans.  A bit South in Miami Dade the percentage of illegals is astronomical, and those with green cards is even more.  They should not count in our census
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    edited January 2019 #8
    Too late. I filled mine out about eight weeks ago. They wanted to know a bunch about me. They found out what I decided was acceptable.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,398 Senior Member
    Good.


    The govt has no right to ask ANY question on the census other than "how many people live here"


    So you're O.K. with additional Congressional seats being apportioned to states by counting people that shouldn't be here because they sneaked in the back door? That is what you're saying.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    edited January 2019 #10
    It is what it is. See the 14th Amendment, Section 2 while you are at it.


    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    It's starting to look like the old commie strategy of using the Constitution to destroy the Constitution, is reaching maturity. All it took was mass media and a handful of chicken**** lawyers. Ah, well, there is always another civilization to take the place of the one that has imploded. I vote for city-states, this time around, since they seem to last the longest, and have the most interesting wars.

  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,398 Senior Member
    Only citizens are allowed to vote, supposedly; even if they've been dead for a decade. Democrats ensure that they don't lose their voting rights just because they're dead. And the Motor Voter law signed up no telling how many illegal aliens to vote.

    Here's an idea for all y'all that don't want controlled border entry and asylum seekers following immigration law. We just give up and throw the borders open to one and all. Take in all comers. There's only about 2 billion that would be hotfooting it into the U.S. and not have the skills to properly wipe their noses and go immediately  on the government dole. Sign 'em all up to vote, and get 'em on Welfare, WIC, getting gobs of money back on income tax returns in multiples of what they paid in, free housing, and all those other wonderful government freebies. We could be Venezuela before middle of the next decade! That's something to shoot for; full Socialist government in 7 years or less.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 1,057 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    What makes anyone think that an illegal would answer the question truthfully in the first place?
    Same thing that leads some to believe that folks will be honest on a 4473.
  • GilaGila Posts: 1,828 Senior Member
    One of the purposes of the census is to determine the number of representatives allotted to each state.  So, the citizenship question is not about illegal aliens, because legal aliens, resident and nonresident, are not entitled to vote either.  The ages of everyone in a household is also necessary information, as children are not entitled to vote, and therefore should not be used to determine Congressional seating.

    BTW, anyone who brings race into question here needs to relocate to Venezuela...
    No good deed goes unpunished...
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    edited January 2019 #15
    Congressional seating has never been determined by the number of voters, or those eligible to vote. I can see making an argument for legal residents, but not based on voters. Remember that our constitution was ratified on the premise that slaves were treated as 3/5 of a person. They couldn't vote, nor were they considered citizens. Many women couldn't vote either, yet they were citizens. Children can't vote, but the vast majority are citizens. Some people are legal immigrants. While they do not have a right to vote and are not citizens, their numbers should be accounted for.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    When I got mine, I think it came with a lengthy explanation of purpose. I didnt save it.

    It also had a threat or two about mandatory response.

    I guess if we draw any lines they separate civic responsibility and privacy.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,398 Senior Member
    As much as I hate Wikipedia, there is a good graph at the end of this link that shows what is happening due to the census over the decades. Look who lost and look who gained seats due to reapportionment.


      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    Gila said:
    One of the purposes of the census is to determine the number of representatives allotted to each state.  So, the citizenship question is not about illegal aliens, because legal aliens, resident and nonresident, are not entitled to vote either.  The ages of everyone in a household is also necessary information, as children are not entitled to vote, and therefore should not be used to determine Congressional seating.

    BTW, anyone who brings race into question here needs to relocate to Venezuela...
    Wrong.
    the ONLY purpose of the census is to determine the number of reps.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    Good.


    The govt has no right to ask ANY question on the census other than "how many people live here"


    So you're O.K. with additional Congressional seats being apportioned to states by counting people that shouldn't be here because they sneaked in the back door? That is what you're saying.
    Nope. I am saying that the census is for, and only for, the numeration of the populace, by law. The people that sneaked in the back door need to go, not be counted, again, by law.

    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    edited February 2019 #20
    When I got mine, I think it came with a lengthy explanation of purpose. I didnt save it.

    It also had a threat or two about mandatory response.

    I guess if we draw any lines they separate civic responsibility and privacy.
    Yes there is a threat of mandatory response. You know why it has NEVER been used? Because SCOTUS would do to all of those questions on the census exactly what they did to Trumps wanting to add a question to the census.

    They sure as {expletive deleted} have no need to know how many tv's are in my house or devices connected to the internet. If they need my income, there is a govt agency that has that info. Wonder why they dont just ask the IRS? Because they cant legally do that.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    last year I was sent some kind of survey that was part of the census and it was 48 pages of detailed personal questions. I kept throwing them away and they started sending threatening letters and some guy even came by the house and put one in my door. I taped it to the door so they would think I moved and one day I came home from work and this census guy actually parked in front of my house to wait for me. I told him that I moved to the ranch and was just remodeling the house in Fort Walton and he finally gave up. The survey had a long name and it just looked like data farming by the govt.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,921 Senior Member
    I received one of those questionnaires also.  Made it half way through page two and tossed it saying none of your business to most of the questions.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    I returned my last census questionnaire with only my name and the number of members in my household filled in. A few months later, a man who said he was an official 'census taker,' but showed no credentials, appeared in my front yard when I was outside and made a show of taking notes about my property, and a GPS position. I told him my name and how many people lived at my residence, and then went on about my business. He loitered about for a few minutes, then got back into his electric car and left. That was approximately 2011, and I haven't heard from him since.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member

    Wrong.
    the ONLY purpose of the census is to determine the number of reps.
    And you are WRONG. The census is also responsible for determining federal funding amounts, validating post office construction, road construction, public schools etc. If it was solely used to determine the number of reps then children and women (women who at one time could not vote) would have never been counted on the census in the first place.

    ETA Questions on an old census in my collection asks the following questions: employment occupation, relationships to household members, country of origin, immigration year etc; all of which have very little to do with determining no. of state reps.  
    Nope, you are incorrect.

    It may ask the questions, but you are under NO obligation to answer anything but how many people live at the residence.
    "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative;"

    Art 1 section 2

    That is it. Enumeration. Women and children were always counted.


    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    edited February 2019 #25
    So Varmintmist, you mean that your layman reading of the US Constitution would be better than BillyBud's crazy attempt to screw with it and find meaning where it doesn't exist?
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    This thread has at least assuaged any potential guilt I might have had about being careless with my census answers.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    How do the censuses from 1870 and 1900 prove it was being done on "day one"?
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Here are the questions from the 1800 census. It looks like they asked for age, sex, and freedom status...

    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • das68das68 Posts: 662 Senior Member
    bisley said:
      He loitered about for a few minutes, then got back into his electric car and left. That was approximately 2011, and I haven't heard from him since.
    he's not got back to his office yet



  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Here are the questions from the 1800 census. It looks like they asked for age, sex, and freedom status...

    I remembered the name of the one they sent me last year and it was called "The American Community Survey". They sent me several threatening letters for not filling it out and a census guy even parked in front of my house in Fort Walton waiting for me to get home. I don't know how long he was there because I had been at the ranch for several days. If you guys want something to debate about, go to the US census website and take a look at that survey and tell me that's not data farming.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
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