This Panic to Terminate a Presidency...

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Replies

  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,590 Senior Member
    Early, it's always about money. Unless it's about power, and even that is usually about money at some level.

    Well sometimes it's about sex.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,267 Senior Member
    Yep.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,552 Senior Member
    edited March 7 #124
    Blah, blah, blah.

    I'm supposed to take your bait, and start defending Donald Trump from this worn out Democrat material? Well, I don't want to. It is a useless exercise in futility, to try to make a hardcore lefty  toss his cheat-sheet (talking points) and actually deal with reality.

    All of this Trump-hate is just political noise to distract from the fact that Democrats do not give a damn about any of the things that they promise, or pretend to advocate.

    However, if they don't get their cats herded, soon, they won't be able to fool enough voters to keep the power that they do wield, so poorly. Their Speaker of the House is getting her head handed to her by a handful of freshman martyrs that she dares not behead, and the Jewish Senate Majority Leader is AWOL while the most virulent of the bigots in his own party denounce Israel, and Jews in general.


  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,590 Senior Member
    Pointing out that a foreign power operates one of the most powerful and influential lobbying operations in Washington is not anti-Semitic and the swiftness and the broadness of the backlash is actually proof of the power and influence that those foreign agents wield in the halls of our government. 

    Israel is a sovereign nation and an ally, but no more special than any other ally. Criticizing the actions of Israel is no more discriminatory than criticizing the actions of say Japan or the UK. 
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,552 Senior Member
    Fine - just apply the same standards that you demand from everybody else to your own bigots. And don't answer every challenge to your ideology by saying "everybody does it."

    Bait and switch rhetoric has been around, forever, and everybody does it, these days. Small children invented it to avoid punishment, and it only worked once or twice, unless their parents were morons.

    But when it is your whole strategy, it simply exposes immaturity.
  • Billy_BuddBilly_Budd Posts: 575 Senior Member
    bisley said:

    All of this Trump-hate is just political noise to distract from the fact that Democrats do not give a damn about any of the things that they promise, or pretend to advocate.

    However, if they don't get their cats herded, soon, they won't be able to fool enough voters to keep the power that they do wield, so poorly. Their Speaker of the House is getting her head handed to her by a handful of freshman martyrs that she dares not behead, and the Jewish Senate Majority Leader is AWOL while the most virulent of the bigots in his own party denounce Israel, and Jews in general.


    My guess is that Cow Fart Cortez will personally hand Trump the Presidency in 2020. 
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,109 Senior Member
    edited March 7 #128
    Israel is a sovereign nation and an ally, but no more special than any other ally. Criticizing the actions of Israel is no more discriminatory than criticizing the actions of say Japan or the UK. 
    I don't pretend to have the answers regarding Israel, but the above is correct. I'm not convinced that the Israelis had the right to invade Palestine in '48, etc, etc, etc. The whole "no criticism allowed else you're a Nazi sympathizer anti-Semite" thing gets old.
    The real angst on this subject is religiously driven by the Christian super majority in this country. As I'm not involved with Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any other monotheism - Abrahamic or otherwise - I don't have a dog in this fight. I do have to admire the Israelis fortitude of not "putting up with any slop" which is completely unlike the US.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,801 Senior Member
    Pointing out that a foreign power operates one of the most powerful and influential lobbying operations in Washington is not anti-Semitic and the swiftness and the broadness of the backlash is actually proof of the power and influence that those foreign agents wield in the halls of our government. 

    Israel is a sovereign nation and an ally, but no more special than any other ally. Criticizing the actions of Israel is no more discriminatory than criticizing the actions of say Japan or the UK. 
    Well, I know SOMEONE that hasn't been keeping up with worldwide events. Antisemitism is on the rise worldwide in a big way. Most recently in Belgium. And Europe in general; shades of pre-WWII on the rise, again. AOC and her Muslim cohorts in the House, Reps. Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib, are virulently antisemitic. So that has started here now. But you won't call them out on that; they are on your side of the fence, politically.

    Anyway, Israel is the ONLY fully reliable ally we have in the M.E. That fact alone is enough to closely collaborate with them. And their and our defense systems do a lot of cross pollinating; they learn from us and we learn from them, and weapons technology advances faster than either effort alone.

    They are constantly under attack by the 'poor defenseless Palestinians' on a daily basis from rocket attacks and from the new balloon borne fire bombs that are dropped from the balloons and explode into a big fire starter on impact.  The fact that they haven't depopulated the Gaza Strip speaks much to their long suffering of the constant attacks.

    And Japan and the UK are not under constant daily attack by an aggressor that wants to wipe them off the face of the Earth, so that last statement of yours is either made from abject ignorance, or maybe something less savory.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,590 Senior Member
    edited March 7 #130
    zorba said:
    Israel is a sovereign nation and an ally, but no more special than any other ally. Criticizing the actions of Israel is no more discriminatory than criticizing the actions of say Japan or the UK. 
    I don't pretend to have the answers regarding Israel, but the above is correct. I'm not convinced that the Israelis had the right to invade Palestine in '48, etc, etc, etc. The whole "no criticism allowed else you're a Nazi sympathizer anti-Semite" thing gets old.
    The real angst on this subject is religiously driven by the Christian super majority in this country. As I'm not involved with Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any other monotheism - Abrahamic or otherwise - I don't have a dog in this fight. I do have to admire the Israelis fortitude of not "putting up with any slop" which is completely unlike the US.
    Ironically a not insignificant portion of that pro-Israel Christian support is in many ways the most anti-Semitic of all since their underlying reasons for supporting Israel are biblical prophecies and a desire to fulfill them and usher in Armageddon which requires essentially starting a war centered in Israel. 
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,109 Senior Member
    Ironically a not insignificant portion of that pro-Israel Christian support is in many ways the most anti-Semitic of all since their underlying reasons for supporting Israel are biblical prophecies and a desire to fulfill them and usher in Armageddon which requires essentially starting a war centered in Israel. 
    I know there are some like that for sure. Then there are Christians who truly are anti-Semitic as "The Jews killed Jesus", blah, blah. Whatever - I leave the Abrahamic Monotheistic angst to the Abrahamic Monotheists. I will say that of the 3 major branches of same, I'll take Judaism over the other two. *shrug*
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,552 Senior Member
    .
    Ironically a not insignificant portion of that pro-Israel Christian support is in many ways the most anti-Semitic of all since their underlying reasons for supporting Israel are biblical prophecies and a desire to fulfill them and usher in Armageddon which requires essentially starting a war centered in Israel. 
    Are you saying that it is OK for Democrats to coddle their own bigots, because Christians are bigots?

    That is how social justice works, isn't it? Since white supremacists usually claim to be Christians, and everybody (more or less) agrees that they are bigots, and that bigotry is bad, it is therefore OK to assume the conclusion that Christians are bigots. So, if Christians are bigots, that makes it only fair to say that Christians are Islamophobes, and mysoginists, and....well, you get the drift.

    So, that means that since the 'young lions' in the Democrat Party are bigots, Democrats are bigots. Is that the way this logic works?

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,267 Senior Member
    I've read Omar's comments this morning. I see the reaction to them as clear and absolute over reaction. 

    However.
    In the context of the current atmosphere of policy debate, over reaction is the caculated norm of influence.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,801 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    Ironically a not insignificant portion of that pro-Israel Christian support is in many ways the most anti-Semitic of all since their underlying reasons for supporting Israel are biblical prophecies and a desire to fulfill them and usher in Armageddon which requires essentially starting a war centered in Israel. 
    I know there are some like that for sure. Then there are Christians who truly are anti-Semitic as "The Jews killed Jesus", blah, blah. Whatever - I leave the Abrahamic Monotheistic angst to the Abrahamic Monotheists. I will say that of the 3 major branches of same, I'll take Judaism over the other two. *shrug*
    I have no idea where either of you are getting that information to come to that HIGHLY erroneous conclusion. Suffice it to say that both of you are way off base out in left field in the high weeds, and I'll leave it at that.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,109 Senior Member
    edited March 8 #135
    Mike - I'm not suggesting ALL Christians are that way, or even most. But they're out there. I've run into a couple of them in my time - NOT nice people.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,590 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    zorba said:
    Ironically a not insignificant portion of that pro-Israel Christian support is in many ways the most anti-Semitic of all since their underlying reasons for supporting Israel are biblical prophecies and a desire to fulfill them and usher in Armageddon which requires essentially starting a war centered in Israel. 
    I know there are some like that for sure. Then there are Christians who truly are anti-Semitic as "The Jews killed Jesus", blah, blah. Whatever - I leave the Abrahamic Monotheistic angst to the Abrahamic Monotheists. I will say that of the 3 major branches of same, I'll take Judaism over the other two. *shrug*
    I have no idea where either of you are getting that information to come to that HIGHLY erroneous conclusion. Suffice it to say that both of you are way off base out in left field in the high weeds, and I'll leave it at that.
    Mike, google Dispensationalism. 

    Here's a primer, but feel free to do your own research:
    "They make up about one-third of America's 40 or 50 million evangelical Christians and believe that the nation of Israel will play a central role in the unfolding of end-times events. In the last part of the 20th century, dispensationalist evangelicals become Israel's best friends-an alliance that has made a serious geopolitical difference.

    Read more at https://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/christianity/end-times/on-the-road-to-armageddon.aspx#T5hrCc2bujVvphUk.99"
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,109 Senior Member
    T
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,801 Senior Member
    Mike, google Dispensationalism. 

    Here's a primer, but feel free to do your own research:
    "They make up about one-third of America's 40 or 50 million evangelical Christians and believe that the nation of Israel will play a central role in the unfolding of end-times events. In the last part of the 20th century, dispensationalist evangelicals become Israel's best friends-an alliance that has made a serious geopolitical difference.

    Read more at https://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/christianity/end-times/on-the-road-to-armageddon.aspx#T5hrCc2bujVvphUk.99"
    Time-CNN polling? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
    Who did they poll, Westboro Baptist Church? :D :D :D :D :D :D
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,801 Senior Member
    Religion is a touchy subject and isn't really looked on as a subject of discussion here. But here's my take on what you're talking about.

    Al, Zorba, you're both missing a BIG point that should be self-evident. And the point is this: It is NOT POSSIBLE to be both of the Christian faith and anti-Semetic. Why, you ask? That, too, is self-evident. Jesus was a Jew, and he preached and worshiped at the Jewish synagogues. To be anti-semitic is to hate the Jews, and Jesus was a Jew. Christians are followers of Christ, a Jew. The Christian religion came later. Explain your stand, if you can. What  i have stated above is fact.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,109 Senior Member
    I'm not at all disagreeing with you Mike, quite the contrary. But there are certainly Christians out there who are anti-Semitic. Most Christians are very pro-Israel/Jew for both the reasons you state as well as for Biblical prophecy reasons. Unfortunately, there are the "others", and some of them are pretty LOUD. That's all I'm trying to say...

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,801 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    I'm not at all disagreeing with you Mike, quite the contrary. But there are certainly Christians out there who are anti-Semitic. Most Christians are very pro-Israel/Jew for both the reasons you state as well as for Biblical prophecy reasons. Unfortunately, there are the "others", and some of them are pretty LOUD. That's all I'm trying to say...

    Zorba, you're cracking me up. Those folk are messed up, and definitely not followers of Christ. They can't be for the reasons I laid out. Just because someone calls themselves a woodpecker don't make them one. See how that works?
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,109 Senior Member
    edited March 9 #142
    tennmike said:
    Zorba, you're cracking me up. Those folk are messed up, and definitely not followers of Christ. They can't be for the reasons I laid out. Just because someone calls themselves a woodpecker don't make them one. See how that works?
    I understand what you're saying, but from the outside who can tell? These types disgust me as much as they disgust you, but I'm not going to judge as to whether or not they're "Real Christians (tm)" or not - I leave such arguments to Christians. I see all kinds of finger pointing among the various types/sects of Christians as to who is, or is not, a "Real Christian (tm)". Some say Mormons are, others say they are not. There's a pile of crap about whether or not Catholics are. Whatever.
    From my perspective - as an outsider - its all the same to me. Heck, maybe they *are* Christians and it is you who is not - I say that just to point out the semantic silliness of the argument. I know you personally are a good person, and that's good enough for me, whether or not you're a Christian doesn't matter. Dunno if this bad example is making sense...
    In other words, as a non-Christian, it isn't my place to determine who is a "Real" Christian or not. Since you are Christian yourself, I'm inclined to go along with your determination as we both agree these types are abhorrent!
    This is all said not to offend or piss you or anybody else off - just an explanation of how I view the subject as well as an attempt to learn.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,267 Senior Member
    We could maybe just bar congressional use of twitter. Might save us a bunch of typing.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,801 Senior Member

    In other words, as a non-Christian, it isn't my place to determine who is a "Real" Christian or not. Since you are Christian yourself, I'm inclined to go along with your determination as we both agree these types are abhorrent!
    This is all said not to offend or piss you or anybody else off - just an explanation of how I view the subject as well as an attempt to learn.
    My 'measuring stick' for who is or isn't is so simple a cave man could do it. Observation. People say a lot of things, but I've always been more visual and aural; I watch what is said and done on days other than Sunday. What is required to be a Christian is laid out in the New Testament. And it applies to all days of the week.

    As to offending me or pissing me off, LOLOLOLOL! Not gonna happen. I can either agree or disagree without being disagreeable.....................except when I want to stir the pot and turn the tables and light someone off. I'm good at that, and try not to do it, but it happens. Differences of opinion is what makes interesting conversation, and horse races.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,109 Senior Member
    That's fine - if you're a Christian. For those of us "outside", it isn't as clear - esp. with Christians themselves squabbling over who is, and isn't. Very confusing!
    But yes, I enjoy meaningful discussion with other viewpoints.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,801 Senior Member
    Confusing. Yes it is. If you come to the Shoot, assuming the Shoot happens, then I'll be glad to sit down and give you an old redneck's view of the subject. If you've read the great philosophers, then you already have a grip on most of the basics that are in the Christian faith.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,109 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    ...If you've read the great philosophers, then you already have a grip on most of the basics that are in the Christian faith.
    And in most of the world's religions/belief systems/whatever.
    Sure, we can yak, it'd be fun! At this point in time, I intend to be there.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • terminator012terminator012 Senior Member Posts: 3,868 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    tennmike said:
    ...If you've read the great philosophers, then you already have a grip on most of the basics that are in the Christian faith.
    And in most of the world's religions/belief systems/whatever.
    Sure, we can yak, it'd be fun! At this point in time, I intend to be there.
    I would love to hear this conversation.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,552 Senior Member
    People believe what they want to believe, and label themselves, and others, as they want to be seen, or want to see others. There are so many religions out there that anybody can shop for anything that suits the way they intend to live their lives. We mostly do not adapt to a particular religion - we adapt the religion to what we want, if we can't find one that is 'tailor-made.'

    Most of the well known religions exist for the purpose of excluding people that an individual or group wants to be distinguished from. The only way that new converts can be found for a religion is to convert them while they are young, or confused enough to suspend disbelief of illogical ideas. Atheism, liberalism, socialism, capitalism, Christian, Krishna, Islam, Judaism, whatever, are 'belief systems' that cannot withstand pure scientific logic on every subject that comes up. They supply rules to live by, that work for most folks, if they choose the right one and if the changes to the way they want to live their life are slight. But, they still do not decisively settle the 'meaning of life' questions.

    There will always be fear of the unknown that will drive people to embrace or create religion, but 'the unknown' is here to stay, at least in this short 'earthly' life. Hope comes from believing that the unknown will be revealed to us, when we depart it.


  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,109 Senior Member
    bisley said:

    Most of the well known religions exist for the purpose of excluding people that an individual or group wants to be distinguished from.
    A very thought provoking sentence from an excellent post. I never thought of it this way before.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,109 Senior Member
    bisley said:
    ....that cannot withstand pure scientific logic on every subject that comes up...
    That is because of dogma - something I (try to) reject. My religion/belief system/world view/whatever changes every day, because the world changes, I change, and my understanding of things changes.
    Most especially in this world of illusion where nothing is truly "real".
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
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