Kicking around an idea.

FFLshooterFFLshooter MemberPosts: 937 Senior Member
Been thinking lately about building something cool/different for myself since I rarely use my skill and profession for my own benefit and the other thread about what new guns do you want got me thinking about it. I have a bunch of different rifles that I could use the action from, including a Remington 700 long action but I have a crazier idea. I have an old bag of **** Mosin Nagant 91/30 with a shot out barrel that I’m contemplating rebarreling for 500S&W magnum, just because. I’m no hunter but I think it would be pretty neat and won’t really require too much effort on my part. Those old actions are definitely strong enough and the bolt face should work as is because the rim is only .011 smaller than the 7.62-54r. I may have to rework the extractor but that’s no big deal either. I’m thinking 1:19 twist 20” stainless bbl from a blank as I usually contour them. Thoughts?
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Replies

  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,272 Senior Member
    I'd love to see it done. I've even got a donor action just in case you want to build two :#

    Sako
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,662 Senior Member
    Sounds like a fun project. Will be quite the blaster
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,726 Senior Member
    Put a scout scope on it!
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 937 Senior Member
    sakodude said:
    I'd love to see it done. I've even got a donor action just in case you want to build two :#

    Order a bbl blank and send it to me with the action and I’ll build it for you free of charge. I figure it’s a good way to showcase what I do.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,554 Senior Member
    Put a scout scope on it!
    I was thinking that caliber isn't going to be target rifle. Better as a Scout.......


    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    You may end up with the same problem I did with the two I built in .44 Mag. The case and bullet have to pass over an overly long gap where the bolt lugs and protruding bolt nose fit. The bullet tips down and jams against the barrel breech and won't enter the chamber reliably. If you ram it in like you're mad at it, the cartridge will enter most of the time. Sneaking a cartridge into the chamber ain't happening. They feed just fine from the magazine and no extractor work was needed.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 937 Senior Member
    With round nose ammo?
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,272 Senior Member
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 10,925 Senior Member
    edited January 24 #10
    sakodude said:
    Yah, you should be intrigued with that offer, get thee to the UPS shipping site. $110 for a barrel! Do it!
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 937 Senior Member
  • Old RonOld Ron Senior Member Posts: 3,799 Senior Member
    Ever make a octagon barrel FFL ?
    I have that Hepburn that I have been looking for a barrel for .

  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,741 Senior Member
    I love the idea! Make it happen!
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,272 Senior Member
    This would be the donor. A 1937 dated action. Any reason this wouldn’t work?
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 937 Senior Member
    That should work just fine.
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 937 Senior Member
    Old Ron said:
    Ever make a octagon barrel FFL ?
    I have that Hepburn that I have been looking for a barrel for .

    No, but green mountain sells octagon bbl blanks too.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    With round nose ammo?

    Round nose, truncated nose, hollow point round nose; no difference. The bullet nose tips down enough in that bolt lug/bolt nose gap to hang on the barrel chamber area, even when the chamber face is aggressively chamfered. I DID find a sort of stopgap fix that works most of the time, though. It consists of nothing more than a floating ring that fits in that gap and is made to fit the shape of the bolt nose and recoil lugs. The bolt nose and front of the lugs fit inside that floating ring wen the bolt is closed and gives the bullet nose less chance to tilt, and guides the bullet into the chamber.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 937 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    With round nose ammo?

    Round nose, truncated nose, hollow point round nose; no difference. The bullet nose tips down enough in that bolt lug/bolt nose gap to hang on the barrel chamber area, even when the chamber face is aggressively chamfered. I DID find a sort of stopgap fix that works most of the time, though. It consists of nothing more than a floating ring that fits in that gap and is made to fit the shape of the bolt nose and recoil lugs. The bolt nose and front of the lugs fit inside that floating ring wen the bolt is closed and gives the bullet nose less chance to tilt, and guides the bullet into the chamber.
    I got to looking at it today. Won’t be able to determine too much until I modify the receiver and feed ramp a little, but if I have an issue like you’re saying, I’m envisioning a spring loaded ramp in between the chamber and feed ramp that’ll help transition the round into the chamber and the bolt will still ride over it, pushing it down.
  • Old RonOld Ron Senior Member Posts: 3,799 Senior Member
    Old Ron said:
    Ever make a octagon barrel FFL ?
    I have that Hepburn that I have been looking for a barrel for .

    No, but green mountain sells octagon bbl blanks too.
    May have to look & see what they have that would be good for that rifle . A used one may be more problems than it would be worth . Thinking on 38- 40 or 40 - 50 . 45 - 70 is getting a little big for my old shoulder to play with .
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    edited January 25 #20
    I got to looking at it today. Won’t be able to determine too much until I modify the receiver and feed ramp a little, but if I have an issue like you’re saying, I’m envisioning a spring loaded ramp in between the chamber and feed ramp that’ll help transition the round into the chamber and the bolt will still ride over it, pushing it down.
    Unless I'm missing something, when the bolt lug rotates into position on the bottom recoil lug that spring is going to be running heavy interference with the bolt lug. If ya come up with something please share!
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 937 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    I got to looking at it today. Won’t be able to determine too much until I modify the receiver and feed ramp a little, but if I have an issue like you’re saying, I’m envisioning a spring loaded ramp in between the chamber and feed ramp that’ll help transition the round into the chamber and the bolt will still ride over it, pushing it down.
    Unless I'm missing something, when the bolt lug rotates into position on the bottom recoil lug that spring is going to be running heavy interference with the bolt lug. If ya come up with something please share!
    I’ll have to take another look at it when I get some time available. I left it at the shop so it’ll have to be tomorrow that I can see if my idea is feasible or not.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    I have an idea for another type insert that would replace the floating one I made. If you're interested in it, I can try sketching one up for you. It would completely bridge the gap, and not interfere with the bolt opening and closing. Since you mentioned this, I've been thinking all day and 'designing in my head' off and on, and came up with a possible solution. If it's feasible, I could make one  from nylon rod and send it to you to copy in steel.

    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    what about chambering it in the Beowulf? The cartridge would be a little longer and it would span the gap.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    snake284 said:
    what about chambering it in the Beowulf? The cartridge would be a little longer and it would span the gap.
    The Beowulf uses a rebated rim case with the case head size of a .223/5.56x45 round. The 7.62 x54 case is rimmed and a lot larger in diameter than the Beowulf case head and is not really readily adaptable to the Mosin bolt head and extractor.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 937 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    I have an idea for another type insert that would replace the floating one I made. If you're interested in it, I can try sketching one up for you. It would completely bridge the gap, and not interfere with the bolt opening and closing. Since you mentioned this, I've been thinking all day and 'designing in my head' off and on, and came up with a possible solution. If it's feasible, I could make one  from nylon rod and send it to you to copy in steel.

    I appreciate that but I believe my idea might just work. It’s more difficult to describe but will be easily understood with a picture once I get around to messing with it. I am curious to what you have thought up though because it sounds like what I’m thinking of too lol.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    I'll see if I can knock out a sketch and maybe gnaw on some Nylon rod tomorrow. Making it out of nylon rod should go quick.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,844 Senior Member
    edited January 27 #27
    Just a slight correction....
    The 50 Beowulf actually uses a 7.62x39 rim size
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    edited January 27 #28
    I intended to do one in nylon rod  but company came. Maybe this quick sketch will do.





    knitepoet said:
    Just a slight correction....
    The 50 Beowulf actually uses a 7.62x39 rim size
    Yup. Sho 'nuff is. There's one cartridge that uses that .223 case head as a rebated rim round, I think, but I forget what it is.
    Anyway, that size case head rim diameter would rattle around like a BB in a boxcar on the face of that Mosin Nagant bolt head, and the extractor would be screaming, "I'm feelin' for ya but I can't reach ya!!!" :D :D :D

    And FFLshooter, you may want to thread that thing to barrel shank thread dimension and then fit it to the correct length for the bolt to close with the barrel threaded in place. Any extra clearance will affect the way the 'bushing'  accepts the bolt.

    And chamfering the front of that inner ring on the outer face so the bolt can align properly is also a good idea, too. Like I said, quick sketch to show the basic idea. I'm gonna make one for my .44 Mag. Mosin when it warms up above freezing my giblets off in the shop temperature. Still haven't got the heater hauled up there; ground is too squishy.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    And a glaring error on the sketch. The bolt lugs are much thinner than the bolt nose diameter, so there would be a 'trough' for the bullet/cartridge to ride straight into the chamber. Second mistake I've made in two days, both because I got on a hurry doing something.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,412 Senior Member
    How about putting a cone breech on the barrel like an 03 Springfield?
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
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  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    Teach said:
    How about putting a cone breech on the barrel like an 03 Springfield?
    The extractor rotates with the bolt head and has a angled ramp to accommodate the extractor rotation; looks the same as most single shot .22 rifles with that reverse cone angel for the extractor rotation. Coning the breach would expose a fairly large portion of the case sidewall at the extractor angle cut. The Mosin is a pain to work with.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



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