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‘96 Mauser - 6.5x55 Swede - Yes/No?

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Replies

  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,445 Senior Member
    I have never checked to see how far out I could seat 160gr in my rifles.  I always just seated to the cannelure  and called it good.  Now I am interested.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,024 Senior Member
    Appropriately named she is. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,445 Senior Member
    edited February 2019 #94
    Now I'm just hoping for a short winter so I can take mine back out to the range.

    Just waiting to be put to use...

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,024 Senior Member
    Load data?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,445 Senior Member
    edited February 2019 #96
    41.6gr of H4831, 2.970".   Per Hornady it should be going about 2265 fps.  It's what my M96 seemed to like.  I also have a 29" barrel and as such I expect your results to vary from mine.

    I suspect that I could push things further, but from what I recall this is close to the original 156gr velocity.  I may be off a little, but I dont think by a whole lot.  

    Your rifle should have sights set for the 140gr at what I seem to recall being about 2500 fps in a 24"barrel.  Mine still has the 156gr sights on it.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,024 Senior Member
    edited February 2019 #97
    I loaded rounds with H4831sc @ 2.780” BTO

    47.0
    47.5
    48.0

    As per the Hodgdon Manual. 



    May get to shoot them tomorrow. If I get lucky. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,445 Senior Member
    I stuck with Hornady since the loads were developed in a M96 with a 29" barrel.  I know my other load manuals list loads for the 6.5x55 that are not intended for M96 actions, and they state so in the print.  If I recall correctly I believe the original cartridge design ran between 45,000 and 50,000 PSI.  I dont know how that would compare to CUP as I do not know of a reliable conversion method.  
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,262 Senior Member
    Throat length. . .I don't KNOW, but I can guess. . .

    1.  There was a lot of WEIRD (by what we "know" to be right today) experimental stuff with bore dimensions and rifling going on in the early smokeless/jacketed era, and of course trying the same stuff that worked with black powder.  A long throat would give you room for fouling. . .that wouldn't exist with smokeless, but WTH, it worked before.

    2.  You've got a LOOOOONG bearing surface on your bullets.  Maybe the notion was that if the cartridge was not sitting perfectly square to the bore, having a lot of shank still in the neck when the bullet hit the lands would lead to the slug getting crammed down the bore off it's proper axis.  Could be they wanted the bullet to leave the neck the free-float to center up in the throat 

    Not sure, but you can't say it DOESN'T work.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,743 Senior Member
    mitdr774 said:
    I stuck with Hornady since the loads were developed in a M96 with a 29" barrel.  I know my other load manuals list loads for the 6.5x55 that are not intended for M96 actions, and they state so in the print.  If I recall correctly I believe the original cartridge design ran between 45,000 and 50,000 PSI.  I dont know how that would compare to CUP as I do not know of a reliable conversion method.  
    Here's an example, but it appears that you can only get close when it comes to conversion.


    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,953 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    I loaded rounds with H4831sc @ 2.780” BTO

    47.0
    47.5
    48.0

    As per the Hodgdon Manual. 



    May get to shoot them tomorrow. If I get lucky. 
    Look forward to the results.
    Hopefully you made enough to try 100 afterwards.

    Having freebore isn't the accuracy killer most think it is.
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,445 Senior Member
     "About 2/3 of the time, the formula will land you within 3,000 PSI, so exercise appropriate caution"

    That "study" just shows that there is no direct conversion.  Close yes, but not not a direct conversion.  Its not like *F to *C or *K which all have direct conversions from one to the other.  If I am reading the above quote correct, I take that to mean that the conversion method he used should give up to a 6000 PSI range for 2/3 of the conversions done.  How far off were the other 1/3?  To me "within 3000 PSI" would be a +/- range.  That is a huge range when working near maximum pressures.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,024 Senior Member
    edited February 2019 #103
    Hit the range today before work, was dying to see how the 160gr RN bullets shot. 
    Set up at 50 yards again to see how things panned out. 



    Well, the cold bore and first group didn’t look like much. Eeek!



    Shook it off and settled down for the next group of 47.5gr H4831sc. 



    That was more like it!!  

    .536” @ 2,544 fps

    And pretty well zeroed!  Bonus!!
    et the barrel cool and sent off the third group with a Book Max Load of 48.0gr H4831sc



    Day-um!!!

    .216” @ 2,566 fps

    Don’t understand the shift left with only a .5gr difference. Maybe it was how I perceived the target with the front sight and I shifted the PoA?  The lighting did change a bit with the sun peeking from behind the clouds for that group. Who knows. Either way, I flinched the same way 3 times in a row or something. 

    Recoil was a tad more but still minimal. No pressure signs. 

    Only concern is is that my ejector doesn’t seem to be working properly. It will extract the cartridge and try to eject, but they end up in the action on top of the follower. Thoughts?

    I had a few rounds left (one from each of the last two loads as I load 4 each in case I have a called flyer in testing) so I shot at the steel at 300 yards. 



    First round, I adjusted the ladder sight to the “3” and held center. But, missed the steel. 

    Second round I returned it to the base of the ladder and just held at the top of the steel plate. Hearing a resounding “clang” on impact. That was nice. 

    I think I’ll try the second load again. May not be as fast and accurate as the last load. But, I like the PoI. 

    Will try the A-Max and Round Nose final loads at 100yrds next. 

    I’m happy. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 7,827 Senior Member
    Sometimes the bolt has to be operated with authority for the ejector to work properly, since it's not spring loaded like a 700, etc. Or you may have to add a little metal to the front of the ejector, to make it a little longer.

    Nice shootin'!!
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,445 Senior Member
    Great shooting.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,024 Senior Member
    Big Al1 said:
    Sometimes the bolt has to be operated with authority for the ejector to work properly, since it's not spring loaded like a 700, etc. Or you may have to add a little metal to the front of the ejector, to make it a little longer.

    Nice shootin'!!
    I’ll try that. I’ve been working the bolt slower as I’m trying to retain the brass. I’ll run it like a man and see what happens. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,499 Senior Member
    Excellent shooter you have there!
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ojrojr Senior Member Posts: 1,092 Senior Member
    I'd be happy too.
    Are you going to settle on one load or have 2 weights marking your different POI and adjusting to suit.
    I'd really like to see one of your Pig shoot dissections using the 160gr Rn i've shot enough of them here with the 140Amax, though travelling traveling a little faster, to know about that but the 160 would be interesting for sure.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,024 Senior Member
    I’m glad I have the A-Max load, but I will likely stick with the 160gr for this rifle.......pending terminal performance results. 

    I have other guns guns better suited for the A-Max bullet. This one, I’d like to keep as “original” as possible and that includes a sim lance of the vintage load. 

    It seems to shoot them well and if they have acceptable terminal performance, I think we have a winner. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,024 Senior Member
    Just got home to a package from mitdr774



    Not only did he send me a box of Unobtanium 160gr RN bullets for my Mauser.........he sent me a hand full of .35cal eye candy to fuel my .350 Legend fire. 

    Some folks on this forum can be pretty amazing. Even ones you’ve never met or heard their voice. 

    Thats pretty cool. 

    Grateful. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,024 Senior Member
    That settles it.......I have enough heavy bullets to feed this gal for awhile. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,262 Senior Member
    cpj said:
    You’re questioning performance of 160 grains of cup and core bullet? 
    Pffft. 
    Unless millions of dead animals are wrong, I’m guessing it’ll be fine. 
    Shush, you!  He's gonna post HD autopsy pics, which, given the caliber and quality of his past work, is probably going to be WAY more credible than the Warren Commission.  :p
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    It will be really interesting to see the terminal  performance of the 160 gr round nose at 2400 - 2500 fps.  I am guessing a through and through.  Zee has proven the AMAX is an effective hunting bullet, and 1/2 inch at 50 yards is more than accurate.  Now Zee needs to find his prey in day light.  Need more popcorn!
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    edited February 2019 #114
    Weatherby said:
    Zee said:
    I loaded rounds with H4831sc @ 2.780” BTO

    47.0
    47.5
    48.0

    As per the Hodgdon Manual. 



    May get to shoot them tomorrow. If I get lucky. 
    Look forward to the results.
    Hopefully you made enough to try 100 afterwards.

    Having freebore isn't the accuracy killer most think it is.
      It isn't if you take advantage of that freebore. If you fill that freebore with bullet it doens't hurt a thing at all. Freebore only hurts accuracy if you use a lighter bullet and seat it down where the extra throat area is empty on a closed bolt before firing. Freebore hurts when a bullet is allowed to jump a big gap allowing the bullet to chatter in the bore before reaching the lands. My little .250 Savage has freebore but I can seat bullets out to magazine length and get another grain or so powder in it. It's one of the more accurate guns in my safe. It's on a Howa 1500 action and for a short acton it has a relatively long magazine.

    When I told everyone I was getting a lot of Velocity out of it they all jumped on me accusing me of making pipe bombs. But this freebore and a 26" Barrel plus the powder I use allows me to get that velocity without over pressure. It will outgun almost any plain vanilla .257 Bob if the Bob isn't so throated and has a shorter barrel. Also, RL-17 is not your dads version of 4350. But that's all I'll say about that.
    Just know that a little extra freebore can be your friend.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,445 Senior Member
    Based on my results with my M96 based rifle using a surplus military barrel (with its military chamber and throat) the 6.5x55 isnt really all to sensitive to bullet jump with some bullets.  My rifle will shoot 160gr RN and 129gr SST to the same group size at 100 yards.  140gr SP or SST open up to almost double the size group.  This is all seated to the overall length specified by Hornady for the bullet used.  If jump was that critical then the 129 should have been all over the place compared to the 160, yet the 140 seems to group the worst in my rifle.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,024 Senior Member
    I think I’m in love!



    .780” for three shots at 100 yards. 

    Ready for hunting!!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,445 Senior Member
    Thats some fantastic shooting.  I need the weather to warm back up up here so I can go back to the range again.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,024 Senior Member
    edited February 2019 #118
    It’s a brisk (for Texas) 38 deg right now. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,670 Senior Member
    Wow. 3/4-ish MOA!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,024 Senior Member
    At least once. 😁
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,445 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    It’s a brisk (for Texas) 38 deg right now. 
    We are having a heat wave today.  When I left work it was 25* out.  38* and I would be debating the range with the little .458 and my M96 today.
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