Optic for a HD/SD Carbine?

knitepoetknitepoet Senior MemberPosts: 18,964 Senior Member
Not a fan of something the requires turning on before it's usable. I figure if the SHTF I may not have time for that.

That got me to looking at Primary Arms' SLx2.5 Compact 2.5x32 Prism Scope - ACSS-CQB-M1 Reticle

While it has an illuminated reticle, it's etched, so even without turning it on, the reticle is visible.

Anyone used one of PA's prism scopes?

Thoughts? Alternatives?




Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


Replies

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,080 Senior Member
    edited February 7 #2
    Strangely, these sights are all still on their first set of batteries, and haven't broken a reticle or come out of adjustment yet:







    Maybe you have a REALLY big house, but just how bitchin' does it need to be to shoot across a dining room?  Mount a light and call it good.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,809 Senior Member
    edited February 7 #3
    Bigslug said:



    I wanna say that is a Webley, but I'd probably be wrong... What is it? I kinda like it.
    EDIT: I was able to enlarge the picture - I actually guessed correctly! Still chambered in .455 or has it been converted to .45?
    I get one right once in a while...

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,964 Senior Member
    edited February 7 #4
    Notice I said HD/PD carbine???

    There's a reason why I specified for a carbine, that I'd rather not publicize on a public forum.


    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,425 Senior Member
    edited February 7 #5
    For genuine duty and HD use, it seems that there's Aimpoint, and then everyone else. Battery operated, yes, but so what? My Comp M4s has been in the ON position, at mid level intensity, for going on 3 years and still works just fine. I'm about to change the battery out of matter of principle. Additionally, you can find used Comp M2's on eBay for $275-$350 and you're ready to rock.

    I have no first hand experience w/ truly abusing an Aimpoint, but I know people that have. From getting blown up in an IED to getting launched out of patrol cars going 70 MPH and colliding with the blacktop, Aimpoints work and survive abuse. Granted, while you know me, you have no idea who the people I'm referring to are.

    If the rifle is for duty level use, get a duty level optic.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • das68das68 Posts: 662 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    Strangely, these sights are all still on their first set of batteries, and haven't broken a reticle or come out of adjustment yet:







    Maybe you have a REALLY big house, but just how bitchin' does it need to be to shoot across a dining room?  Mount a light and call it good.
    :D :D :D :D :D :D

  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 965 Senior Member
    Would a scout scope mount be an option?
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,964 Senior Member
    no
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,080 Senior Member
    edited February 7 #9
    knitepoet said:
    Notice I said HD/PD carbine???

    There's a reason why I specified for a carbine, that I'd rather not publicize on a public forum.


    I give my same answer.

    Madison Avenue is all about convincing us that we "need" things, and that whiz-bang equipment is somehow going to solve all our problems.

    On the plus side, these electric red dot sights can give you better contrast in iffy light, and they aren't as sensitive to having your eyeball in perfect alignment if you have to shoot from a really goofy expedient position.  For an AR, it'd do an Aimpoint for reasons of killler battery life and Marine-resistant (not "Marine-proof") durability.  Do a true co-witness mount (none of this lower 1/3 nonsense) and leave the irons flipped up at all times.

    On the down side, you have batteries, power switches, comparative fragility, and fogging or water droplet issues - especially if you subject them to the cool air-conditioned-house, humid-Midwest-outdoors phenomenon.  Also, if you have that dot's brightness adjusted down for best contrast in low light, and then hit your target with a 600 lumen flashlight to identify what you're shooting at, that cute red dot will VANISH before your eyes.  Meanwhile, your iron sights (if you haven't blocked them with your Game Boy sight) will stand out and say "HOWDY!"

    All these things do is give you three things to line up (eyeball, dot, and target) instead of four (eyeball, rear sight, front sight, target), and the target is in this case large and close.  IMO, the K.I.S.S. principle applies.

    (And yes Zorba, it's a Webley, and it's still .455)
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,080 Senior Member
    And if you're looking for a real scope with lenses, I'd go with a low power variable.  I run 1.5-5's and 2.5-8's on a couple of different rifles.  At 1.5x, you can pretty much come up and deal with room-clearing distances about as easily as you can with irons - maybe easier as the target is now in the same focal plane as the sight/crosshair.  At 2.5x, you kinda have to fudge things, and I don't regard it as highly if you plan to play indoors.

    A lot of military-turned-cop guys like to use 3.5 or 4x Trijicon ACOGs on their patrol rifles.  Great scopes, and they work, but more optimized for a military setting where two rifles off the same rack might get deployed to the streets of Ramadi or the hills of Afghanistan on the same day.  Not really the prime choice for a dedicated urban setup.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,700 Senior Member
    I have a 1-4x Leupold shotgun scope on mine. It's easy to use up close ( to maybe 15 yards) on 1x, and good enough for 100 yards at 4x. I was most interested in MOA accuracy at ranges on either side of 50 yards, so it is great for that (if set between 2x and 4x). The cross hairs are too thick for tiny targets at longer distances, but I'm not concerned about that. I leave it set on 1x, when not shooting at small, blurry targets.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,178 Senior Member
    edited February 7 #12
    knitepoet said:
    Not a fan of something the requires turning on before it's usable. I figure if the SHTF I may not have time for that.

    That got me to looking at Primary Arms' SLx2.5 Compact 2.5x32 Prism Scope - ACSS-CQB-M1 Reticle

    While it has an illuminated reticle, it's etched, so even without turning it on, the reticle is visible.

    Anyone used one of PA's prism scopes?

    Thoughts? Alternatives?




    What's the max range you imagine using the rifle for? 

    I'm thinking about a 1-4x for my "HD" AR, but that's more for plinking at 100 yds. than for the HD use.  For HD I'd probably be sticking with some sort of long-life red dot.  My issue: astigmatism.  Mine doesn't interface well with most small-dot red dot sights.  That's why the current red dot is a "dot in a circle" option.  That can be picked up with my eyes.  Only problem is the current red dot is a dog for battery life.  I've heard of some other good options, but don't have any personal experience so I won't make a recommendation.

    Edited to add:  Yes, I know about iron sights.  Even have them on the rifle, not blocked by the optic, and readily usable.  And I have a light.  But if I can add something that gives me more of an edge, why not? 
    Overkill is underrated.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,178 Senior Member
    edited February 7 #13
    Just to clarify, while I think a 1-4x would be a good varied use scope, and either it or a 2-7x are probably my first choices for "all around" use, it wouldn't serve my uses for an HD/SD scope, as the confrontations where I could see me using the AR would all be well within 100 yds., probably even 25 yds. and anything over 1x would be unneeded.  The variable would undoubtedly give you more flexibility, but for pure HD/SD use I don't see the need. 

    Since my HD/SD rifle also serves as a plinker, the 1-4x variable makes more sense, for me.  Your mileage may vary.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,743 Senior Member
    Put me in the 1-4x / 1-6x variable scope crowd. 

    I like Aimpoints for dedicated up close stuff. 
    I like ACOGs for dedicated field work. 

    I like 1-?x scopes for melding both worlds. 

    I have a 1-6x Vortex and love it. I have a 1.25-4x Leupold. I can tell a difference in just that .25x and really think Leupold should have worked to take it out. 

    The closer to 0 power you can get the better. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,313 Senior Member
    Must be a long range HD.  You can't focus a scope at 30 feet.  My HD short-range is a pistol, and longer range to the extent of my property is a Miin-14.  Neither has any optics.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 207 Member
    My 1-4s focus at 2 feet.  I have not tried less than that.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,313 Senior Member
    Accipiter said:
    My 1-4s focus at 2 feet.  I have not tried less than that.
    You need a scope for two feet?
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 207 Member
    Gene L said:
    Accipiter said:
    My 1-4s focus at 2 feet.  I have not tried less than that.
    You need a scope for two feet?
    I was not addressing a need.  I was addressing functionality.  You seem to be confused about the capability of a modern scope, especially one designed for the purpose desired by the op.  I just did not want misinformation being passed around.

  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,700 Senior Member
    My 1-4x will focus fine, up close (at 1x). I just don't know if I would be comfortable with it at less than 15 yards in a stressful situation. Never really tried it, other than to make sure it would be possible (typical of my sleazy training 'regimen').
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,596 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    Accipiter said:
    My 1-4s focus at 2 feet.  I have not tried less than that.
    You need a scope for two feet?
    The purpose of the 1x is to look thru the scope with both eyes open...... like a red dot. So the closer, the more betterer.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,596 Senior Member
    Zee said:


    I have a 1-6x Vortex and love it. I have a 1.25-4x Leupold. I can tell a difference in just that .25x and really think Leupold should have worked to take it out. 

    The closer to 0 power you can get the better. 
    Maybe it's my eyes or the Leatherwood CMR scope I had was off on the dial, but with both eyes open 1.5x made both eyes see the same thing.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,596 Senior Member
    ...... and I walked all thru my house with that scope and could see just fine from 6' to ∞
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,964 Senior Member
    Bream, I'll answer you first, in the HD roll, across the room to MAYBE (doubtful) 25-30 yards

    In the PD roll, possibly to 200-250yds or so (That's about the range the SOB lobbed one at me from the last time)
    It will also be wearing a streamlight #88089 1,000 lumen light/laser combo with a pressure switch mounted under my normal grip position, once they actually hit the street. I already have one pre-ordered
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,425 Senior Member
    knitepoet said:
    Bream, I'll answer you first, in the HD roll, across the room to MAYBE (doubtful) 25-30 yards

    In the PD roll, possibly to 200-250yds or so (That's about the range the SOB lobbed one at me from the last time)
    It will also be wearing a streamlight #88089 1,000 lumen light/laser combo with a pressure switch mounted under my normal grip position, once they actually hit the street. I already have one pre-ordered
    This makes more sense now, and I do believe you've described this problem to me in the past. 

    Put me in the 1-4 or 1-6 variable crowd for your uses. My recommended model will be dictated by your budget. 
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,178 Senior Member
    knitepoet said:
    Bream, I'll answer you first, in the HD roll, across the room to MAYBE (doubtful) 25-30 yards

    In the PD roll, possibly to 200-250yds or so (That's about the range the SOB lobbed one at me from the last time)
    It will also be wearing a streamlight #88089 1,000 lumen light/laser combo with a pressure switch mounted under my normal grip position, once they actually hit the street. I already have one pre-ordered
    Well then, 1-4x or 1-6X variable would be my choice.  Like SS3 said, budget would dictate the model and maker.

    This one looks really nice at its "Add to Cart for Price" pricing.  Of course you'll have to get rings or a mount....

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/173684/vortex-optics-strike-eagle-rifle-scope-30mm-1-6x24mm-1-2-moa-adjustment-illuminated-ar-bdc-reticle

    Overkill is underrated.
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 207 Member
    knitepoet said:
    Bream, I'll answer you first, in the HD roll, across the room to MAYBE (doubtful) 25-30 yards

    In the PD roll, possibly to 200-250yds or so (That's about the range the SOB lobbed one at me from the last time)
    It will also be wearing a streamlight #88089 1,000 lumen light/laser combo with a pressure switch mounted under my normal grip position, once they actually hit the street. I already have one pre-ordered
    Well then, 1-4x or 1-6X variable would be my choice.  Like SS3 said, budget would dictate the model and maker.

    This one looks really nice at its "Add to Cart for Price" pricing.  Of course you'll have to get rings or a mount....

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/173684/vortex-optics-strike-eagle-rifle-scope-30mm-1-6x24mm-1-2-moa-adjustment-illuminated-ar-bdc-reticle

    I put one of those on a friend’s AR last year.  It was in his budget.  I liked it.  Not as nice as the PSTs or the Burris xtrII I have, but nice and clear none the less.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 2,308 Senior Member
    Currently, $237.45
     :) 
    Beware of false knowledge -- it is often more dangerous than ignorance.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,763 Senior Member
    edited February 8 #28
    Another ‘plus to the 1-4 or 1-6x optic is that, unlike the red dot, if you are nearsighted and wear glasses the 1x option will be crisp and clear looking through it without glasses/ contacts.  With a red-dot, it will be just as blurry as your uncorrected vision.

    Something I realized a while ago with my Millet 1-4x
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
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