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New Green Deal

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  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    Its a valid point. I don't drink, and hadn't considered alcohol use and its after effects.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Well Alpha, I doubt that anyone on this forum has too much voice in DC so you're arguing with the wrong people. Being that you work and live in DC, wouldn't your time be better spent pestering lawmakers to agree with you rather than people on this forum?
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,667 Senior Member
    Outlaw neckties and encourage skirts for men!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,445 Senior Member
    Show up drunk and you will be placed in a chair till you are sober enough to be removed from the job.  Then you will have to find a new job since safety and the customer along with the contractor will no longer allow you to work there.  Alcohol is out of your system quicker than pot.  We could argue semantics all day, but if its in your system it could potentially impare your ability to perform your job in a safe and correct manner.  
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,638 Senior Member
    People who work all of the jobs cited drink all the time. Alcohol impairs you way more than pot IMHO with lots of experience with both pot heads and drunks in my lifetime. Two things need to change.

    1) Rescheduling and decriminalization at the federal level, let states decide beyond that
    2) Need to develop tests that actually are tied to impairment and not past history of use. The applies both for job sites and for drivers. 

    Being high or drunk on the job is a big no-no, no one is arguing that. But someone deciding to eat a brownie or take a few puffs on Friday or Saturday night instead of pounding a 6 pack of beers shouldn't be disqualifying for a job. Both individuals are capable of showing up fully sober on Monday morning. Only one is penalized for how they chose to spend their own time. 
    From a professional standpoint, I see a lot more high functioning alcoholics from all walks of life, not very many high functioning stoners
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member

    Here's where the commiecraps got their economic policies:

    Who knew they were country music fans?  LOL!

  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    First, with pot...

    A habitual user can have ACTIVE thc in his bloodstream for up to two weeks and is impaired. That is NOT the by product held in the urine or fat, it is ACTIVE. If you want to argue that, then you are wrong, go do the research. The time becomes less as the usage goes down but for the most part, even a casual user that does pot midweek will be impaired the next day.

    Alcohol is metabolized at the rate of 1 oz./hr no matter how often you drink.

    So you can get falling down drunk on Sat, be sober on Mon, drink a six pack after work every night and be sober in the morning.

    Legal or not, no company that is industrial or at home customer facing can afford the insurance to hire people who are impaired on the job. That includes those liquid lunch types and pot smokers.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say that well the argument of our grandfathers/fathers income versus cost comparison of todays income versus cost was very effective at generating inflammatory debate, it was a poor tactic to influence personal perspective. 

    😋
    Then team redistribution shouldnt have brought it up. It is a fair argument, but you have to compare apples to apples, not apples to grandmas apple crumb pie.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    People who work all of the jobs cited drink all the time. Alcohol impairs you way more than pot IMHO with lots of experience with both pot heads and drunks in my lifetime. Two things need to change.

    1) Rescheduling and decriminalization at the federal level, let states decide beyond that
    2) Need to develop tests that actually are tied to impairment and not past history of use. The applies both for job sites and for drivers. 

    Being high or drunk on the job is a big no-no, no one is arguing that. But someone deciding to eat a brownie or take a few puffs on Friday or Saturday night instead of pounding a 6 pack of beers shouldn't be disqualifying for a job. Both individuals are capable of showing up fully sober on Monday morning. Only one is penalized for how they chose to spend their own time. 
    From a professional standpoint, I see a lot more high functioning alcoholics from all walks of life, not very many high functioning stoners
    This is because you don't know about the pot habit. The casual user generally doesn't brag (for obvious reasons) and you don't smell them the next day. Many successful self employed people frequently smoke pot. I personally know a lawyer, an accountant, and a body shop owner who smoke pot. These people are in their late 40's early 50's and have smoked their entire adult lives. Of course, their clients have no idea. Nor should they. 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,638 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    People who work all of the jobs cited drink all the time. Alcohol impairs you way more than pot IMHO with lots of experience with both pot heads and drunks in my lifetime. Two things need to change.

    1) Rescheduling and decriminalization at the federal level, let states decide beyond that
    2) Need to develop tests that actually are tied to impairment and not past history of use. The applies both for job sites and for drivers. 

    Being high or drunk on the job is a big no-no, no one is arguing that. But someone deciding to eat a brownie or take a few puffs on Friday or Saturday night instead of pounding a 6 pack of beers shouldn't be disqualifying for a job. Both individuals are capable of showing up fully sober on Monday morning. Only one is penalized for how they chose to spend their own time. 
    From a professional standpoint, I see a lot more high functioning alcoholics from all walks of life, not very many high functioning stoners
    This is because you don't know about the pot habit. The casual user generally doesn't brag (for obvious reasons) and you don't smell them the next day. Many successful self employed people frequently smoke pot. I personally know a lawyer, an accountant, and a body shop owner who smoke pot. These people are in their late 40's early 50's and have smoked their entire adult lives. Of course, their clients have no idea. Nor should they. 
    I agree with you on this point, I am just going by the folks that smell like alcohol or weed when I encounter them, big difference with the habitual users IMHO. I will say I am not unfamiliar with the pot habit, been around it plenty in high school and college, pretty minimal exposure since then unless I encounter a patient that is a user. It is usually not an either or thing with patients either, the smokers tend to be drinkers too, not all the drinkers are smokers. 
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,667 Senior Member
    I can usually tell a pot smoker by the way they talk. Grandiose plans that go nowhere. What level it takes to get like that I have no idea, but I know it when I see it.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    CaliFFL said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    People who work all of the jobs cited drink all the time. Alcohol impairs you way more than pot IMHO with lots of experience with both pot heads and drunks in my lifetime. Two things need to change.

    1) Rescheduling and decriminalization at the federal level, let states decide beyond that
    2) Need to develop tests that actually are tied to impairment and not past history of use. The applies both for job sites and for drivers. 

    Being high or drunk on the job is a big no-no, no one is arguing that. But someone deciding to eat a brownie or take a few puffs on Friday or Saturday night instead of pounding a 6 pack of beers shouldn't be disqualifying for a job. Both individuals are capable of showing up fully sober on Monday morning. Only one is penalized for how they chose to spend their own time. 
    From a professional standpoint, I see a lot more high functioning alcoholics from all walks of life, not very many high functioning stoners
    This is because you don't know about the pot habit. The casual user generally doesn't brag (for obvious reasons) and you don't smell them the next day. Many successful self employed people frequently smoke pot. I personally know a lawyer, an accountant, and a body shop owner who smoke pot. These people are in their late 40's early 50's and have smoked their entire adult lives. Of course, their clients have no idea. Nor should they. 
    I agree with you on this point, I am just going by the folks that smell like alcohol or weed when I encounter them, big difference with the habitual users IMHO. I will say I am not unfamiliar with the pot habit, been around it plenty in high school and college, pretty minimal exposure since then unless I encounter a patient that is a user. It is usually not an either or thing with patients either, the smokers tend to be drinkers too, not all the drinkers are smokers. 
    Yeah, the habitual users of anything are the worst. All this talk about health care expenses and nobody mentions the cost of self abuse on the system. My libertarianism has a  difficult time reconciling this fact with people who are morbidly obese, chain smokers (whichever plant), alcoholics, and junkies. 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    I can usually tell a pot smoker by the way they talk. Grandiose plans that go nowhere. What level it takes to get like that I have no idea, but I know it when I see it.
    The people I mentioned, you'd never know. They aren't doing the wake-n-bake. They will smoke in the evenings and weekends. Since I work in aerospace I stay clear of the garage when I'm invited to BBQ's but their behavior is way more tolerable than the drunks. 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    Impairment can become a subjective thing. If someone pays for a service and recieves a satisfactory result, that equates to fulfilled expectation.

    If that service was a triple bypass, the expectation might be a bit more involved.

    Generally only an unsatisfactory result invites the spotlight of accountability. There does however exist a higher level of expectation and personal dedication to certain things. So much so, that some vocations involve the swearing of a oath.

    As legalization spreads the marajawana industry will have to take responsibility and establish potency standards as well R&D of standards of impairment. Obvious consequences will result if they remain negligent. 


  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,638 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    CaliFFL said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    People who work all of the jobs cited drink all the time. Alcohol impairs you way more than pot IMHO with lots of experience with both pot heads and drunks in my lifetime. Two things need to change.

    1) Rescheduling and decriminalization at the federal level, let states decide beyond that
    2) Need to develop tests that actually are tied to impairment and not past history of use. The applies both for job sites and for drivers. 

    Being high or drunk on the job is a big no-no, no one is arguing that. But someone deciding to eat a brownie or take a few puffs on Friday or Saturday night instead of pounding a 6 pack of beers shouldn't be disqualifying for a job. Both individuals are capable of showing up fully sober on Monday morning. Only one is penalized for how they chose to spend their own time. 
    From a professional standpoint, I see a lot more high functioning alcoholics from all walks of life, not very many high functioning stoners
    This is because you don't know about the pot habit. The casual user generally doesn't brag (for obvious reasons) and you don't smell them the next day. Many successful self employed people frequently smoke pot. I personally know a lawyer, an accountant, and a body shop owner who smoke pot. These people are in their late 40's early 50's and have smoked their entire adult lives. Of course, their clients have no idea. Nor should they. 
    I agree with you on this point, I am just going by the folks that smell like alcohol or weed when I encounter them, big difference with the habitual users IMHO. I will say I am not unfamiliar with the pot habit, been around it plenty in high school and college, pretty minimal exposure since then unless I encounter a patient that is a user. It is usually not an either or thing with patients either, the smokers tend to be drinkers too, not all the drinkers are smokers. 
    Yeah, the habitual users of anything are the worst. All this talk about health care expenses and nobody mentions the cost of self abuse on the system. My libertarianism has a  difficult time reconciling this fact with people who are morbidly obese, chain smokers (whichever plant), alcoholics, and junkies. 
    You can add having children out of wedlock to this list.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    edited March 2019 #167

    As legalization spreads the marajawana industry will have to take responsibility and establish potency standards as well R&D of standards of impairment. Obvious consequences will result if they remain negligent. 


    I can only speak for Washington, since I work in the state. There are pretty strict labeling requirements for potency. All smokable products must be percentage labeled and edibles are labeled by milligrams. I'm not sure how you'd measure impairment with current technology. But I know there are more than a few companies working on it. 

    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
     
    You can add having children out of wedlock to this list.
    I'd only revise this to say "having children without having the financial resources to support a kid."
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,667 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
     
    You can add having children out of wedlock to this list.
    I'd only revise this to say "having children without having the financial resources to support a kid."
    Yep. I don't care whether or not somebody said words over a couple, just that they have the love and resources to raise their child.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,638 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    CaliFFL said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
     
    You can add having children out of wedlock to this list.
    I'd only revise this to say "having children without having the financial resources to support a kid."
    Yep. I don't care whether or not somebody said words over a couple, just that they have the love and resources to raise their child.
    Not being married in MN makes you elligible for a full list of financial aid, lots of folks getting a free ride because they chose to not get married to maximize their welfare payout, the sperm donor gets to live in subsidized housing, get food stamps, and his kids get their insurance paid by the county, AND, he gets his tubes cleaned on a regular basis, B as in B, S as in S, not my job to raise your kids, you can't support them, don't get pregnant.   
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,667 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    zorba said:
    CaliFFL said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
     
    You can add having children out of wedlock to this list.
    I'd only revise this to say "having children without having the financial resources to support a kid."
    Yep. I don't care whether or not somebody said words over a couple, just that they have the love and resources to raise their child.
    Not being married in MN makes you eligible for a full list of financial aid, lots of folks getting a free ride because they chose to not get married to maximize their welfare payout, the sperm donor gets to live in subsidized housing, get food stamps, and his kids get their insurance paid by the county, AND, he gets his tubes cleaned on a regular basis, B as in B, S as in S, not my job to raise your kids, you can't support them, don't get pregnant.   
    I'll agree with that as far as it goes - MN needs to fix their laws.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    edited March 2019 #172
    CHIRO1989 said:

    Not being married in MN makes you elligible for a full list of financial aid, lots of folks getting a free ride because they chose to not get married to maximize their welfare payout, the sperm donor gets to live in subsidized housing, get food stamps, and his kids get their insurance paid by the county, AND, he gets his tubes cleaned on a regular basis, B as in B, S as in S, not my job to raise your kids, you can't support them, don't get pregnant.   
    Agree completely, but this is an example of another broken government system. This started to help the truly helpless and has turned into an avenue for abuse, especially by democrat pols. If the GOP decides to cut the funding, the dems shriek about the Right hurting poor people. The "poor" continue to vote for the givers of free S. As in S. 

    And this is why we are talking about AOC and her NGD. Just more free S. 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,398 Senior Member
    AOC's New Green Deal has that guaranteed income of around $40,000 for those born tired and not rested enough to work. Now any fool that has made even a casual study of human nature knows the end result of that. There will be a HUGE contingent sitting on their fists and leaning back on their thumbs waiting on that government handout, and the working people will be footing the bill. And the economy will collapse like a house of cards when the workers get tired of pulling the free stuff wagon and give up, too.

    TANSTAAFL. Government produces nothing but debt. They use a complicated tax and fee structure to pass out the goodies. When there are no businesses left in the U.S. to tax, and everyone is on the dole, it's game over.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member

    No, the laws don't need to be fixed- - - -the social parasite factories, male and female, are the ones that need "fixing".  I'll volunteer to handle the boars- - - -my Buck knife is shaving sharp.  A little more medical expertise might be required for their sows.


  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    After eight pages of the finest policy debate this side of the Potomac river styx. I'd venture a wild guess that there's more than few reservations???😋
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,167 Senior Member
    I will just say this. I worked for two companies that did immediate testing after a workplace accident. Even just minor damage with a forklift backing into a electrical panel........

    This  is a best estimate because my memory stinks and there have been a lot of accidents over the years........ 8 out of 10 tests were positive. At least 7 out of 10....

    There was just one this week with a forklift. The driver tried to act nonchalant and get out of the area but the ambulance was called. That is who does the testing. Ambulance service right at the plant then the employee gets sent home for 3-4 days until the results are back. Positive, they don't come back. Negative they come back and the missed days are paid..............
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,167 Senior Member
    When I worked for a chemical company I always joked that I was going to invent a new breathalyzer/time clock. Just like the drunks get on their car ignition. Don't blow clean you can't clock in...... one night a skinny little dude drank two whole bottles of NyQuil....... I couldn't kick him awake.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    People who work all of the jobs cited drink all the time. Alcohol impairs you way more than pot IMHO with lots of experience with both pot heads and drunks in my lifetime. Two things need to change.

    1) Rescheduling and decriminalization at the federal level, let states decide beyond that
    2) Need to develop tests that actually are tied to impairment and not past history of use. The applies both for job sites and for drivers. 

    Being high or drunk on the job is a big no-no, no one is arguing that. But someone deciding to eat a brownie or take a few puffs on Friday or Saturday night instead of pounding a 6 pack of beers shouldn't be disqualifying for a job. Both individuals are capable of showing up fully sober on Monday morning. Only one is penalized for how they chose to spend their own time. 
    This 'assumed conclusion' is how pot smokers have opened this argument, since forever, without regard for the factual details. How can anyone honestly debate any question whose opening statement begins with a false conclusion?

    When science develops a way to identify marijuana use with some sort of very obvious 'tattletales,' which alcohol use has always exhibited, it might be possible to make fair comparisons. A seasoned pot smoker can simply wear sunglasses and keep his mouth shut, and fool 90% of the public, but that does not mean that his motor skills and judgement are not severely impaired, especially with the 'supercharged' THC content of today's marijuana. It's like comparing 3.2 proof beer with shots of 190 proof Everclear, but without the very obvious indicators that alert anyone who has a normal sense of smell, or is somewhat attuned to noticing behavioral abnormalities.

    Most of the behavioral 'tattletales' of marijuana use don't differ greatly from a person who is locked in to his cell phone while driving or walking around. That is true of even the super 'mild' (by comparison) doses of THC that were being ingested 50 years ago. I have known vodka drinkers who were able to walk or drive around drunk for decades, before the cumulative effect of their years of alcohol abuse finally took enough of a toll on their ability to maintain to 'blow their cover.'

    If we are just going to cite consensus opinions as facts, and legislate accordingly, we are immediately in the realm of man-made climate change laws, which apolitical scientists are still trying to make sense of.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member

    One trait that I've observed pretty regularly about both drunks and stoners is their narcissistic self-absorption and their willingness to bend the conversation to assure they become the "victim" of others' efforts to present actual facts and figures.  They're always playing the victim card to rationalize their behavior.  Tobacco users have been playing that same card for years, but with steadily diminishing returns.  In another few decades after a database of factual evidence on the effects of pot are recorder, it's very likely that the mantra of "It's not as harmful as alcohol" will also be debunked. 

     

    LOL!   

  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    When the IT crew comes back from their milk and cookies break, or maybe their mid-day nap, could somebody who is allegedly in charge of this zoo ask them to figure out why the "edit" feature hasn't worked for a couple of days, please?  I can't even correct a typo! 
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,667 Senior Member
    Try clearing your browser and re-logging in. I've had no problems myself...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
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