Im all done hunting in Colorado.

earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,601 Senior Member
The bureaucratic red tape is no longer worth it. I can no longer simply apply for the license lottery. All applicants must first purchase a qualifying liscense to be either spring turkey, annual small game, annual combination small game/fishing or veterans lifetime resident blah blah blah.

If the additional fees would have just been added out right to the desired license I'd consider paying. But this is slight of hand ridiculous nonsense.

I want to hunt not jump through hoops. Im going to replace hunting with just plain camping. Maybe photography in the future.

Replies

  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 140 Member
    What is the reason for the hoops.  Colorado seems like it would be a hunters paradise.  I am just spitting in the wind here, but are they making it hard on residents in order to sell more to rich out of state hunters?  
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,553 Senior Member

    I lived and hunted in Colorado for nearly 30 years.  I thought I had moved to a hunting paradise when I first got there, but quickly learned that is not the case.  I had some success, as evidenced by my avatar, but I also had a lot of hunts during which I didn't "make meat".  There was some good, and some bad, but I probably will never go back to hunt there again.  

    I also lived in Utah in the mid 80s, and found that hunting there was not all that great.  Like Colorado and other western states, access to hunting land was plentiful, but competition from other hunters was high.

    My one and only deer hunt in Montana last year was a real eye opener in terms of number of deer.  I made a lot of Colorado hunts during which I never even saw a legal game animal, much less had the opportunity to take one.  During the 3 days I hunted Montana, there wasn't a single day that I could not have taken a legal deer, or antelope if I had a tag. 

    But, Montana also has the  requirement for out of state hunters that they must first buy a non-resident small game and fishing combination license before applying for a big game tag.  That increases the price of a license considerably.  I probably won't hunt Montana again, but it's more because I spent more time driving than hunting.  Texas is a long ways from Montana.

    Try hunting Texas.  I can't even find a lease or a place to hunt that I can afford.  It's cheaper for me to hunt out of state in places such as Montana than to hunt here.  There is a lot of high fenced property for which one can purchase a 3-5 day hunt, and pay a trophy fee based on the B&C score of the animal taken. 

    The point I'm trying to make is that good, quality, inexpensive hunting is becoming more and more rare just about everywhere.   I can't fault state game departments and land owners for wanting to maximize their profits,  In Colorado, it's probably more about covering their costs as the CDOW has to fund all outdoor related activities with revenues generated by license sales.  

    I fear there will come a day when no one hunts because they can't afford to. or were raised in a family that no longer hunted due to rising costs.  That will be a sad day indeed, and make it that much easier for state and national legislatures to pass restrictive gun laws.

    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,601 Senior Member
    edited February 16 #4
    I can only speculate without substance. It seems like they require a great deal more money to manage state resources, and in order to avoid sticker shock they implemented this scheme to accumulate a substantial fee increase. I likely would have threw a Jack Benny fit and then paid and continued to hunt if the fees had just been added up front to the desired license. I am not going through multiple purchases and carrying multiple documents and performing hoop jumps like a trained monkey for the privilege. 



  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,651 Senior Member
    Texas has more deer than ever, I think, but very little public land. Leases have become expensive and restrictive in what they will allow, because landowners can often make more dollars per acre from hunting than planting crops or raising cattle. The smart ones do both.

  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,729 Senior Member
    bisley said:
    Texas has more deer than ever, I think, but very little public land. 

    It’s my opinion that we have so many deer and such good hunting because it is all private land. 
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,651 Senior Member
    Yep. In my area, it's all private land that isn't being used for anything, that produces the best deer - low-lying areas that cattle are fenced off from. When I moved to east Texas in the early '70's, there was still a lot of truck farming going on. There is very little, now, comparatively, and the varmints have moved back in, in response to the lack of human pressure. It would be a great thing, if anyone would allow hunting, but hardly any will. I doubt if I would, either, these days.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,350 Senior Member
    edited February 18 #8

    ...In Colorado, it's probably more about covering their costs as the CDOW has to fund all outdoor related activities with revenues generated by license sales.  

    I fear there will come a day when no one hunts because they can't afford to. or were raised in a family that no longer hunted due to rising costs.  That will be a sad day indeed, and make it that much easier for state and national legislatures to pass restrictive gun laws.

    To any outsiders reading this thread, the bolded part of what Jerry said above in enormously important to understanding the bureaucratic nightmare that Colorado hunting has become.  MileHighShooter shed major light for me on how CPW evolved from CDOW - a lucrative, self-sustaining entity - into a socialized cash cow to cover for it's ultimately absorbed, perpetually in-the-red partner in the form of the Colorado Parks Department.   

    The notion that hunting license sales could take the burden of both game management and parks/recreation was doomed the minute the California Invasion started.  You now have a horde of granolas who will vote people out of office if they have to shell out one red cent to hike or bike a trail.  At the same time you have hunters funding it all, completely between a rock and a hard place: if they demand the granolas pay for some of the costs, those granolas now have a say in how the land is used.  If they stand put, they have to continue watching incessant increases and additional license costs. 

    In the meantime, Colorado is busy doling out outrageous (arguably unsustainable) tag numbers and instituting new fees seemingly every year these days.  They have no choice if they are to remain solvent.  They are even considering requiring a paid permit to shed hunt.   

    The non-bolded part of what Jerry typed?  Make no mistake: it is absolutely a large part of why I bit the bullet and simply bought my own land to hunt in Missouri.  I can get over-the-counter permits for big game/turkey and have the right to control nuisance animals/predators as required with no license.  

    Was it expensive in comparison to buying permits and hunting public land, or hoping for private access elsewhere for the rest of my living years?  Sure.  Is the security of knowing that me and my kids will have a little place to call our own worth the cost of ownership?  Absolutely.  It's sad that it has come to that, but the reality is that nobody is making anymore land, owning your own private land isn't getting any cheaper, and what's publicly available is getting thinner as the years go on. 
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,601 Senior Member
    For me its not the extra money nearly as much as the purchasing of un-used licenses, and added procedures. Living in a place like this continues to increase demands on people's time to the point of intermittent hardship. 

    I don't know why both Colorado and Montana didn't just add the extra fees to the cost of the one desired license. Maybe it saves administrative costs. I see it as a dishonest practice.

    I also agree that hunting is becoming an activity for those of privilege. I've seen it coming for some time. Once upon a time I -75 in Michigan displayed a parade in November of blue collar participants going north and then returning south with average old and rusty cars. Now I go to Meeker during the season here and out of staters are dressed in the latest catalog fashions driving rigs that cost more than three years pay. Eventually I'll likely even get crowded out of finding some quiet time in the woods. I just hope I can retire and relocate before that happens.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,350 Senior Member
    edited February 18 #10
    The thing with Montana is that they actually *do* include the cost of the small game privilege into the license.  It's only a non-resident thing that they require this added cost for the small game/upland/fishing privileges, and they call it a "deer combo" license.  The residents get a MUCH better deal that includes numerous big game animals for a very cheap cost.  

    On one hand, it sucks for us non-resident hunters because it makes the non-resident hunts outrageously expensive.  On the other hand, I use it as an excuse to use the other privileges as much as possible.  I have had good upland hunts and fishing trips out there dependent on what part of the state we've hit.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,558 Senior Member
    I always thought I would eventually get a little land south of here because it was the edge of Appalachia and cheap.......... the gas boom took care of that idea.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,350 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio said:
    I always thought I would eventually get a little land south of here because it was the edge of Appalachia and cheap.......... the gas boom took care of that idea.
    It just sucks that it went that way.  Worse is what you said about people having to lease their mineral and/or hunting rights just to break even on taxes.  

    In fact, that gas boom is part of what scared me into acting when I did.  Gas, real estate or some other unknown demand surge is always lurking right around an unknown corner.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,558 Senior Member
    I tried to get 25 acres in 1998. Was only $16,000..... Went out to find the property lines and someone had built a 30'x40' pole barn right in the middle of the right a way to the land locked property.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,327 Senior Member
    New Mexico has required a game hunting license of some sort as a pre requisite to draw tags since they started the lottery style drawing system.  It used to be you could buy your license and tags over the counter.  Now I have to buy a small game license and pay the wildlife management and public land access fees before I can even enter into a draw hunt.  And if you are unsuccessful in the draw, you are refunded most of the draw fee only, but no refund for the small game license and fees.  I buy the small game license anyway, since I hunt dove and quail.  Dove adds another fee to the license in the form of the migratory bird permit, which also requires me to report the number of dove I kill every year.  I also have to report on any tags I draw, whether or not I filled the tag. Not a huge deal. But mandatory or all future draw entries will be rejected.

    In my cart right now on the NM Fish and Fur website is my resident small game license with all mandatory permits and fees, $24.  Deer draw application fee, $41 (any legal arm, one fork antlered deer).  Elk draw application, $60 (any legal arm, one antlerless elk).  After the draw results, if I don't draw deer or elk, I get that $94 refunded ($101-$7 non refundable draw fee) and am left with the $24 small game to hunt dove and quail.  If I was to draw them both, $125 dollars total for everything. 

    Best I can tell, the same hunts for a non resident would cost $966.  Except that New Mexico doesn't give non resident antlerless elk tags.  It's $548 for mature bull or either sex tags. Deer is $283 for standard hunts, $368 for quality and high demand hunts.  I'm not sure what Colorado charges for hunts like this.  New Mexico might be a cheaper option with plenty of public land to hunt.  But, the public land will have a lot of hunters in them during hunting season. That is the down side to it.

  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,553 Senior Member

    cheap, good, accessible.

    Pick 2.

    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,327 Senior Member
    Pretty much.  My deer hunt is cheap and accessible, but not good hunting compared to other areas.  The other areas are good as far as deer population, but suck due to the number of hunters all trying to hunt the same area.  For deer these days, I'd rather hunt a low probability area and avoid the people..

    For elk, my usual unit is a great area.  So much so that outfitters show up a month ahead of time and block off the best areas to set up camp.  Then hunters start showing up days or even weeks before the season starts, packing the area full of campers.  Then, as soon as the season starts, they start driving around in trucks and on ATVs, "hunting."  It's a mess I just prefer to avoid any more....
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,350 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio said:
    I tried to get 25 acres in 1998. Was only $16,000..... Went out to find the property lines and someone had built a 30'x40' pole barn right in the middle of the right a way to the land locked property.
    That kind of crap is still alive and well out where I bought.  I looked at one 36 acre plot that had a bizarre traingle of land owned by someone else in a random section of that pretty mich assured they would have to tresspass to access it.  Sure enough, there was a treestand  in that chunk.

    When I looked up who owned it, it was the guy on the neighboring land with all sorts of “no trespassing” signs facing that land I was looking at, yet boot marka from his place headed right to the stand. Hard pass, a good thing in the end. That led me to look at the place I ended up buying.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,695 Senior Member
    Jay said:
    Pretty much.  My deer hunt is cheap and accessible, but not good hunting compared to other areas.  The other areas are good as far as deer population, but suck due to the number of hunters all trying to hunt the same area.  For deer these days, I'd rather hunt a low probability area and avoid the people..

    For elk, my usual unit is a great area.  So much so that outfitters show up a month ahead of time and block off the best areas to set up camp.  Then hunters start showing up days or even weeks before the season starts, packing the area full of campers.  Then, as soon as the season starts, they start driving around in trucks and on ATVs, "hunting."  It's a mess I just prefer to avoid any more....

    When I lived in Texas, (1986 to 1994) some friends of mine used to go to New Mexico and elk hunt on some indian reservation. They claimed that the tribe could make their own regs and they paid a set fee to hunt the reservation and it used to be pretty reasonable and there was no hassle about drawings. Does this situation still exist?
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,350 Senior Member
    Jay said:
    Pretty much.  My deer hunt is cheap and accessible, but not good hunting compared to other areas.  The other areas are good as far as deer population, but suck due to the number of hunters all trying to hunt the same area.  For deer these days, I'd rather hunt a low probability area and avoid the people..

    For elk, my usual unit is a great area.  So much so that outfitters show up a month ahead of time and block off the best areas to set up camp.  Then hunters start showing up days or even weeks before the season starts, packing the area full of campers.  Then, as soon as the season starts, they start driving around in trucks and on ATVs, "hunting."  It's a mess I just prefer to avoid any more....
    Yeah, these kinds of situations are hard to escape anymore.  Outfitters are paying outrageous money to lease out prime private land and/or simply showing to prime spots before anyone else reasonably can on public land.  They simply make their investment in time and money by charging a mint to use their services.

    And road hunting?  Don't get me started.  It's the new scourge of the west.  People seem to have forsaken and mistaken actual hunting ability for the comfort of simply driving the roads and only stepping out to blast something.  Some areas of Nevada were all but unhuntable during mule deer season because of the number of vehicle accessible roads and people willing to beat those roads to death in lieu of hiking in or glassing.  I have no issue with older hunters who can't get around well anymore doing what is necessary to stay in the game, but it peeves me to no end when an able-bodied adult goes on a gasoline safari.

    In fact, the Montana landowner who lets my regular hunting party hunt whitetails and turkey on his place in the Fall views road hunters as a half step above poachers.  He absolutely refuses to let people drive around on his land looking for an easy shot.  He made it abundantly clear that a big reason why he let us on his place is because he saw us on the neighboring public land and respected the fact that we were willing to hike in hard, glass the terrain and work for our kills.  Sadly, that mindset seems to be aging out.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,553 Senior Member
    Luis, road hunting in the west is not new.  I hunted Utah in the mid 80s, and there were lots of road hunters then.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,350 Senior Member
    Luis, road hunting in the west is not new.  I hunted Utah in the mid 80s, and there were lots of road hunters then.
    Oh, I know it's not new.  In fact, one of the guys in our hunting party (a retired Las Vegas cop in his mid-50s) said that he loves hunting with because, while he hunted with his dad growing up, his old man was strictly a road hunter and they practiced actual woodsmanship.  A few trips out with us, and he's proven to be an extremely fast learner, now more than capable of picking out a good spot to examine and harvest a deer. 

    I haven't been hunting long enough to accurately assess it, but based on anecdotes from older hunters, it seems that fewer able-bodied people these days are willing to even learn how to hunt before resorting to jumping in the truck with a rifle with zero intention of getting out until something is in range.  As it relates to your Utah example: while heading up there to fly fish, I've seen the road hunters there in their modern form and been stuck in a backup caused - more than once - cause by someone parking in the middle of a single land road trying to set up for a shot.  
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,424 Senior Member

    I've hunted the same 100 acres of Tennessee we bought in 1983 and haven't bought a big game license yet.  When I turned 65, my lifetime hunting/fishing license cost me a one-time fee of $4.00- - - -good anywhere in the state until I croak!  Just one more reason to live in the real America! 

    Jerry


    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,855 Senior Member
    edited February 23 #23
    Six-Gun said:
    Luis, road hunting in the west is not new.  I hunted Utah in the mid 80s, and there were lots of road hunters then.
    Oh, I know it's not new.  In fact, one of the guys in our hunting party (a retired Las Vegas cop in his mid-50s) said that he loves hunting with because, while he hunted with his dad growing up, his old man was strictly a road hunter and they practiced actual woodsmanship.  A few trips out with us, and he's proven to be an extremely fast learner, now more than capable of picking out a good spot to examine and harvest a deer. 

    I haven't been hunting long enough to accurately assess it, but based on anecdotes from older hunters, it seems that fewer able-bodied people these days are willing to even learn how to hunt before resorting to jumping in the truck with a rifle with zero intention of getting out until something is in range.  As it relates to your Utah example: while heading up there to fly fish, I've seen the road hunters there in their modern form and been stuck in a backup caused - more than once - cause by someone parking in the middle of a single land road trying to set up for a shot.  
    Road hunting in Texas is as old as automobiles. I live in the north part of Calhoun County. Seadrift is about 15 miles Southwest of us. Port O'Connor is about 18 miles South Southeast of us. There's a road between Port O'Connor and Seadrift and Port O'Connor is about 18 miles East of Seadrift. This 18 mile road is affectionately known by Seadrift's finest as "That Long Sendero." When you hear one say he killed this or that on that Long Sendero you know he's an outlaw. But the price of getting caught can be career ending nowadays.They will take all your stuff and your dreams too! This is a public road and not even with a special permit is shooting from the road permitted.

    Texas law prohibits hunting game animals from a vehicle even on a private road on private land. There are special handicap permits but if you're not handicapped and don't have a permit and you get caught shooting at a Game Animal from a car or truck or a four wheeler your soul may belong to God but your ass belongs to the Warden. They don't play.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,855 Senior Member
    snake284 said:
    Six-Gun said:
    Luis, road hunting in the west is not new.  I hunted Utah in the mid 80s, and there were lots of road hunters then.
    Oh, I know it's not new.  In fact, one of the guys in our hunting party (a retired Las Vegas cop in his mid-50s) said that he loves hunting with because, while he hunted with his dad growing up, his old man was strictly a road hunter and they practiced actual woodsmanship.  A few trips out with us, and he's proven to be an extremely fast learner, now more than capable of picking out a good spot to examine and harvest a deer. 

    I haven't been hunting long enough to accurately assess it, but based on anecdotes from older hunters, it seems that fewer able-bodied people these days are willing to even learn how to hunt before resorting to jumping in the truck with a rifle with zero intention of getting out until something is in range.  As it relates to your Utah example: while heading up there to fly fish, I've seen the road hunters there in their modern form and been stuck in a backup caused - more than once - cause by someone parking in the middle of a single land road trying to set up for a shot.  
    Road hunting in Texas is as old as automobiles. I live in the north of Calhoun County. Seadrift is about 15 miles Southwest of us. Port O'Connor is about 18 miles South Southeast of us. There's a road between Port O'Connor and Seadrift and PO is about 18 miles East of Seadrift. This 18 mile  road is affectionately known by Seadrift's finest as "That Long Sendero." When you hear one say he killed this or that on that Long Sendero you know he's an outlaw. But the price of getting caught can be career ending nowadays.They will take all your stuff and your dreams too!

    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,350 Senior Member
    Snake - 

    The issue in the mountain West is that shooting from a road is not necessarily illegal, particularly when you get into the public land stretches with 2-tracks that aren’t techincally roads.  These guys aren’t shooting from the vehicles (generally), rather ceaselessly driving the roads looking for a shot.  

    In Colorado and other states with higher hunter numbers, that many rigs driving through an area can push out seemingly every mature game animal and cause serious transit headaches for people simply trying to get to and from their camp.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,546 Senior Member
    I moved to Colorado 15 years ago, thinking I had moved to hunters Valhalla. Nope....Aside from the whims of the "draw", you are limited to a certain (small) area for one week (or less).

    Elevation and current weather conditions make a HUGE difference here. If you saw elk at 9000 feet ASL  yesterday, they may, upon a whim decide that 6000 suits them better by daylight the next. And......that's outside of your "area". Nothing like seeing a shootable elk at 200 yards that's 150 yards outside your area.

    And, the conjoining of the Dept of Wildlife  with Parks and Recreation  pretty much dooms any meaningful hunting in this state.

    Save your pennies and enjoy a hunt somewhere else. This state was once legendary for hunting opportunities. Not anymore.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,601 Senior Member
    Parks & Wildlife answered my email last night.

    Thankyou for your comments. We'll be sure to pass them on to the committee.😋
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 924 Senior Member
    Not a fan of the way they are doing this.  Its a way of getting almost $100 out of non resident hunters even if they dont draw a tag.  Maybe make it part of the application fee and people might be more accepting, but to have to buy a small game license first knowing that if I dont draw I will not be using it is a special level of stupid.
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