8x57 Mauser - Any experience?

13

Replies

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,620 Senior Member
    I think they are one of the coolest looking guns out there. That, and the history, have made them a serious WANT since I was a kid. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,429 Senior Member

    I'm going to need to look at the bolt locking setup on the Enfield I've got and see if maybe there's a way to weld up the back of the bolt with  air-hardening drill rod or something similar and then use a tool post grinder on a lathe to adjust the headspace without changing the bolt nose.  When the right parts are scarce or unobtainable, sometimes it's a good idea to think outside the box.  I do that a lot on the antique Chevrolet engines I build.

      

    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,248 Senior Member
    Teach said:
    True commercial Mausers, (not converted military receivers) have a couple of identifying characteristics that those in the know look for- - - -A couple of things that will be missing are the semi-circular cutout in the left side of the receiver, and the stripper clip slot in the front of the rear bridge.  Since hunters rarely, if ever needed to fire volleys, a means of quick reloading was not really a concern.  The military proof marks (waffenampts) will also be missing.  There is a huge number of sporterized military, and extremely few real commercial rifles on the market, most of them at astronomical prices.   

    My 98 which I dated to 1912 according to the markings on the receiver has the cutout and I think the clip.  The markings on the breech couldn't have been added, but its no a Mauser-Mauser.  Since it predates ww 1, I figure the builder got a action for a military rifle.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,429 Senior Member
    edited March 1 #65

    The K98's and other Mausers with a full-length magazine will accommodate a .30-06 length cartridge.  A Yugo or CZ, with the 1/4" shorter action screw spacing and a shorter magazine box makes for a somewhat tight fit.  If the magazine length is suitable, a chamber reaming job to 8MM-06 can make for an interesting wildcat conversion.  No barrel swap, bolt, magazine, or other alterations are necessary, and the extra powder capacity of the -06 case will make .323 bullets come to life.  Lots of the WW II bringback rifles got that conversion because the Berdan-primed brass 8MM that was available at the time was a PITA to reload and plenty of milsurp -06 brass was available, dirt cheap. 

      

    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 937 Senior Member
    Teach said:

    I'm going to need to look at the bolt locking setup on the Enfield I've got and see if maybe there's a way to weld up the back of the bolt with  air-hardening drill rod or something similar and then use a tool post grinder on a lathe to adjust the headspace without changing the bolt nose.  When the right parts are scarce or unobtainable, sometimes it's a good idea to think outside the box.  I do that a lot on the antique Chevrolet engines I build.

      

    Why not remove the barrel and move the shoulder forward a bit?
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,248 Senior Member
    Is it possible to put a very thin washer behind the bolt head? 
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,606 Senior Member
    BigDanS said:
    Please tell me where I need to go to drink the kool aid that will help me like the Enfield?  Ugliest piece of wood and steel.....
    I read a book that contained an entire collection of diary and memoir excerpts from members of the BEF.. Ive never seen a more understated communication of extreme hardship and dramatic danger in my life. That and some tid bits I've read about the SMLE manufacture have given me a great deal of respect for the variations of that rifle. 
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 937 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    Is it possible to put a very thin washer behind the bolt head? 
    It would have to go in between the lugs and the receiver which would inturn interfere with the lugs, so no.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,429 Senior Member
    edited March 2 #70
    Have you ever tried to get a barrel off an Enfield?  They're TIGHT!  If I could get it off without destroying it, it would need to be machined, and turned in one full thread, then rechambered.  Simply moving the shoulder forward a few thousandths would make the sights misalign with the receiver.  Gene, look at the bolt head on your rifle- - - -since it threads into the bolt, a thin washer would prevent the squared-off portion from lining up with the rest of the bolt body, so it couldn't be put back into the receiver once the washer was installed.    
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 937 Senior Member
    I can honestly say I haven’t had to remove the bbl from an Enfield but it can’t be worse than a Mosin. Those things are on there good! I usually bore an aluminum slug to fit the bbl taper and clamp it down in a fixture I made in my hydraulic press. A little rosin powder ensures it won’t spin.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,248 Senior Member
    BigDanS said:
    Please tell me where I need to go to drink the kool aid that will help me like the Enfield?  Ugliest piece of wood and steel.....
    I disagree.  Mine looks pretty good...I guess it's been refinished, but whoever did it, really did well.  No
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,248 Senior Member
    edited March 2 #73
    Not sure why the picture and the text didn't attach.  I'll try it again.  It's got no military markings on it, probably polished off, and a really nice blue and a decent stock.  Only got the SN, not on the stock band or the nocks form.



    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,620 Senior Member
    Man Gene!  That’s another nice one!!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,248 Senior Member
    edited March 2 #75
    And it was cheap.  I bought it off Gunbroker for
    $225 IIRC...no one wants a No 4 any more, with all the magnums out there, and especially one that's been sporterized.  But there it is.  The Lee Enfields rifles if in original condition are more likely to move over a sporterized one.. Someone put a LOT of work into this rifle. It has a scope mount to go with it, but I don't use it.  No 1 bolt head.  I think I bought a No 2 for insurance, but I don't know where it is at the moment. Although I gave the seller my gunsmith number for the transfer, the owner, who I think had little experience sent it to my paypal address, my home address.  So I got it by Fed Ex on a Saturday.  I'm totally impressed with the gun.  It could be slimmed down and checkered and be a very excellent heirloom.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,620 Senior Member
    I will probably scope the No.4 after I get it. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,248 Senior Member
    I've quit scoping rifles. I used to, big expensive scopes, which I probably should sell in the classifieds..  Now that I don't hunt and only target shoot to the limit of my limitations,  I've got more scoped rifles....well, no I don't. amymore.  I used to go with bughole groups and  powerful scopes but have came to the realization that I'm not a game shooter and simply like to do the best with what I have.  Two inches at 100 yards with open or aperture sights do my thing.  It's a different challenge.

    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,043 Senior Member
    There are a number of places out there selling faux No.4 MKI (T) sniper kits out there, with and without replica scopes.  IIRC you have to drill a hole or two, so I'd think twice about that if you end up with a super clean original gem.  Aside from lacking windage adjustment beyond drifting the front sight, the iron sights are superb for a military rifle, so it may not be a road you feel a need to go down.

    At any rate, approach any sporter treatment with some caution.  The bedding system on the No.4 floats the barrel to within about 2" of the muzzle, at which point the forend come into contact with the barrel providing about 3-5 pounds worth of upward pressure.  Conventional wisdom among Enfield geeks suggests getting rid of that for a full free float usually turns a 2 MOA rifle into a 5-10 MOA rifle.  One of the target shooter tweaks was to move the contact point back to the middle of the barrel (like a 700 sporter).  I don't know if that's what they did on the early Lee-Speed sporters (WANT!  REALLY BAD!), but it should help. 

    In the current vein of where this thread seems to be going, how about Enfields that are ALSO Mausers?



    My M1917 sporter still on the rack from when I scored it 3-4 years ago.  A little big on headspace, so it gets it's own brass and neck-sizing, but a remarkable honest 1-2" gun - seemingly with whatever semi-decent stuff I feed it.  Has an old Redfield rear sight that keeps the clip slot clear, so the speedy reloads are still an option.  I can't bring myself to alter one, but have no qualms about bringing home ones that have already been tweaked - it's a GREAT action!



    Then my unmolested Eddystone P14 .303 with a group from yesterday confirming that my cast bullet load cooked up for the No.4 MkI holds up across multiple rifles.  Going to segregate brass, but the bullet and powder charge seem to work.  Got a line on an unmodified M1917 that I hope comes through this week. Best stock sights on a military bolt action. I LOVE THE U.S.-MADE Enfields! 



    The WWI Brit seems to like it too. I'm cheating on this one - I installed a pre-1916 rear sight leaf that still has the 1-MOA clicks windage knob, so that nice little knot at 10:00 will henceforth migrate. :)



    Some of the earlier work with the No.4.  Lighting was a major factor on the fliers for this one.

    Agree with Gene that bughole grouping (esp. with optics) has lost some of it's charm.  Yes, I strive for it in the load workups, and always cackle like a mad scientist when I get it, but I enjoy shooting from field positions and blowing up water bottles more.  A good milsurp usually shoots as well as I can under those conditions, and the mechanisms are wonderfully non-finicky.

    Hee!  Pouring gas on OTHER people's fire is FUN!  :D
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,620 Senior Member
    edited March 2 #79
    S&K Industries makes a “no D/T” scope base for the Enfield No.4 Mk1. 



    Consequently, they make one for the Yugo 23/47 as well. 😎


    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,730 Senior Member
    Do they make that no D&T for the Ishapore Enfield?
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 7,052 Senior Member
    I always thought the Enfield was about one of the ugliest rifle ever built, until I bought one just for giggles. I was impressed by the smoothness of the action, but it really shined at the range. More accurate than I expected, and a lot of fun to shoot. The other milsurp that impressed me was the 7.7 ****. Basically a rimless .303 Brit and also very accurate. Both great rifles for their time!!
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,043 Senior Member
    Do they make that no D&T for the Ishapore Enfield?
    SHOULD be samey-same as their No1. MK3 mount as the only change Ishapore made (AFAIK) was improved steel to deal with 7.62 pressures. 

    I'm kinda intrigued by these mounts.  Part of my historical nerdiness concerns knowledge of what the guns were capable of in their stock format, but properly evaluating them in that context requires the eyes of a 20-year-old draftee, which I no longer have.  Certainly makes hunting with an unaltered milsurp more palatable.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,620 Senior Member
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 924 Senior Member
    Now I'm curious as to who manufactured this mount.



  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,429 Senior Member
    edited March 2 #85

    What they neglect to tell you is that on the "no D&T" Mauser mounts, it's sometimes necessary to do a little wood butchering on the stock.  It might be a good idea to pick up a cheap takeoff stock from Gun Parts Co. if you choose to go that route, and keep the original one unmolested in case you decide to go back to original  "no scope" configuration.  The Enfield mount looks like it attaches to the rear bridge, so stock modifications probably won't be required.  "No D&T" mounts also have a tendency to shoot loose on occasion, so pay attention to the tightness of the attaching hardware.

    I looked at the bolt on the #1 MK III Enfield that I've got, and in case of excessive headspace it would be a fairly simple procedure to build up the back of the locking lugs with a TIG welder and air-hardening drill rod, and then adjust the headspace by precision grinding the locking lugs.  It might be a way to turn an unsafe wallhanger back into a shooter.

       

    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,620 Senior Member
    edited March 2 #86
    mitdr774 said:
    Now I'm curious as to who manufactured this mount.



    Weaver
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,620 Senior Member
    Teach said:

    What they neglect to tell you is that on the "no D&T" Mauser mounts, it's sometimes necessary to do a little wood butchering on the stock.  It might be a good idea to pick up a cheap takeoff stock from Gun Parts Co. if you choose to go that route, and keep the original one unmolested in case you decide to go back to original  "no scope" configuration.  The Enfield mount looks like it attaches to the rear bridge, so stock modifications probably won't be required.  "No D&T" mounts also have a tendency to shoot loose on occasion, so pay attention to the tightness of the attaching hardware.


       

    The Weaver was/is known for that. The S&K has less of an issue from what I’ve researched. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    BigDanS said:
    Please tell me where I need to go to drink the kool aid that will help me like the Enfield?  Ugliest piece of wood and steel.....
    Your ugly my elegant. I think they are beautiful rifles. My MK IV sniper is sweet.

    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,429 Senior Member
    Think about all the money you'll save on ammo with a SMLE- - - - -Don't shoot, just ugly 'em to death!
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    One thing the Enfield actions have that make them fast to shoot is the cock on closing vs. the Mauser cock on opening. There's no resistance really when opening the Enfield bolt after firing, and the closing and locking stroke uses the arm muscles more efficiently to speed up the ejection and loading.
    I have 2 jungle carbines, 2 'Smellys', and a couple of #4s.
    And regarding the removal of barrels, the only way I've ever found to remove them from an Enfield without risking damage to the action is to take a VERY CAREFUL cut with a cutoff tool really close to the front of the action ring to relieve the torque some hippopotamus using a 10 foot cheater bar to torque it into place. Never had a problem removing a Mosin Nagant barrel, though. They're tight, but not Enfield tight!
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,043 Senior Member
    Big Al1 said:
    I always thought the Enfield was about one of the ugliest rifle ever built, until I bought one just for giggles. I was impressed by the smoothness of the action, but it really shined at the range. More accurate than I expected, and a lot of fun to shoot. The other milsurp that impressed me was the 7.7 ****. Basically a rimless .303 Brit and also very accurate. Both great rifles for their time!!
    We've all probably heard the old saw that the Germans made the hunting rifle (accurate enough, but slow), the U.S. made the target rifle (accurate, but with sights that are invisible in bad light), and the Brits made the battle rifle.  Having played with them all, I tend to agree - lots of handguard coverage for bayoneting, fast cock-on-close, less bolt lift that doesn't cover your sights, a shorter bolt throw that doesn't bop you in the face, and twice the ammo of almost everyone else in the game.  Not so much for aesthetics, but a beautiful rifle for the purpose of conducting ugly business.

    Finding my matching Vickers is likely to be. . .problematic.  :'(
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.