Which .22 LR round for self defense?

Shoemaker Seth

I know that the short answer to this question is .45 ACP, but sometimes circumstances dictate a less-than-ideal situation. My main/only CCW is in IA since I couldn't bring it home with me on the bus. I will be 4 weeks with a Ruger mark II as my only portable option, hence the question. I "think" it would be the 60 gr. Aguila SSS or the 40 gr. CCI Velocitor. What say you? It's got the Velocitors in it now.

bruchi

Back in the 70's Mosaad agents used 22lr Berettas model 70 and 71 in many instances including going against terrorist on planes with a great rate of success, seems they used "German made" ammo, no clue on what type to confuse forensics. In cases to eliminate the need of a silencer they would take the bullet off, lose some of the powder and replaced the bullet, this guns in some cases where modified to work with a lower charge.

As Wambli well said, the technique was to shoot very fast at center mass, either empty the magazine and do a quick reload or fire a number of very rapid rounds and run like hell.

[Deleted User]

It simply doesn't matter. Whatever is reliable. .22s typically won't expand from handguns, and you either trade velocity for bullet weight or bullet weight for velocity.

Shoemaker Seth

bruchi wrote: »

or fire a number of very rapid rounds and run like hell.

Maybe I should take to wearing running shoes as a part of my defensive plan. I'll look for a tactical pair or maybe spray paint my current ones black. In all seriousness, avoidance should be a prominent part of any plan to stay alive.

NCFUBAR

Shoemaker Seth wrote: »

I will be 4 weeks with a Ruger mark II as my only portable option, hence the question. I "think" it would be the 60 gr. Aguila SSS or the 40 gr. CCI Velocitor. What say you? It's got the Velocitors in it now.

As to the Aguila ... I would not expect them to cycle reliably being sub-sonic they are more toward bolt rifles.

As to the Velocitor ... They are hot and a little heavier than normal rounds so IF you can run enough of them thru the Mark II to make sure it will feed 'em I'd run those.

Now .22LR may be the bottom rung but it is better than a sharp stick. Just make sure you put a little extra work in training with it 'cause if you call on it you are going to have to be almost prefect on shot placement.

ETA: Dang you can't even carry a pocket knife on the Hound ...

Shoemaker Seth

I am very proficient and precise with the MK II. It was my first gun when I was 14. I've shot it a lot since then. I have shot a lot of Velocitors out of it as well and know they work fine. I will function check the SSS today.

I carried my Gerber EZ Out on the Hound, since if I had been caught with it they would have kept it for the trip and given it back at the end. I don't think that the LCR would have gotten the same treatment.

glockman0422

I think the Velocitors are a great choice. As far as the Aguila, i would recommend the interceptors. They are 40gr bullets that travel very fast and pack a pretty good punch for a 22lr. I bought a 500rnd brick and i dont remember having any malfunctions thru my 10/22 or my walther p-22. Obviously the 22lr is probably my last choice for self defense but if thats all you have at the moment i guess its better than nothing. Im sure someone being shot at is not going to worry about what caliber is being shot at him. they are going to run regardless. if they are charging you just keep shooting and step to the side. good luck.

bronx2snellville

I would go with the CCI "STINGER" rounds. They are made for self-defense as they have a slightly smaller, hollow point bullet and slightly more powder. They cycle just fine in my Ruger Mark II but I like them for my North American Arms 22LR mini-revolver. Given what you said about CCW limitations and the need for 22LR you can't beat the CCI "Stinger."

ericb

bronx2snellville wrote: »

I would go with the CCI "STINGER" rounds. They are made for self-defense as they have a slightly smaller, hollow point bullet and slightly more powder. They cycle just fine in my Ruger Mark II but I like them for my North American Arms 22LR mini-revolver. Given what you said about CCW limitations and the need for 22LR you can't beat the CCI "Stinger."

And this is written where?

I would buy a few different brands of premium ammo, especially round nose or truncated cone. See which one your Ruger prefers then buy a bunch of them and practice. I would not bother shooting Center of Mass....Definitely go for the head....this will take the fight out of most bad guys.

breamfisher

Whuzzat? The sheriff is near?

glockman0422

bronx2snellville wrote: »

I would go with the CCI "STINGER" rounds. They are made for self-defense as they have a slightly smaller, hollow point bullet and slightly more powder. They cycle just fine in my Ruger Mark II but I like them for my North American Arms 22LR mini-revolver. Given what you said about CCW limitations and the need for 22LR you can't beat the CCI "Stinger."

Yeah the stingers are pretty cool and are quite hotter than other 22lr. The bad thing about them is that they use a very light projectile (31gr) which rapidly looses speed and energy at any distance. they are great for hunting but for shooting anything else i think a heavier projectile that travels fast is the way to go. thats why the velocitor and the interceptors are my choice. they are 40gr bullets traveling very fast and they mantain speed and energy for greater distances. Just my 2 cents.

ericb

.223sniper wrote: »

neither are ethical for self defense in my opinion.

:uhm:

What is ethical about self defense? If I am in survival mode, I am gonna be the most unethical f'er you will ever meet.. Bite, kick, even do the **** twister if necessary. If all I have is a .22 I am shooting for the head and the nuts.

[Deleted User]

CCI Stingers won't expand from a handgun. That's a CCI Stinger bullet on the far right as fired into wet paper pulp from three feet. Plus, you give up way too much bullet weight, and that reduces penetration. Stingers are great for blowing up water bottles and such from a rifle, but would not even be on my list of choices in a personal defense rimfire pistol. Just choose a standard velocity 40-gr. roundnose that works reliably.

NN

Scott E. Mayer wrote: »

It simply doesn't matter. Whatever is reliable. .22s typically won't expand from handguns, and you either trade velocity for bullet weight or bullet weight for velocity.

:that::agree:
Besides, I never felt under gunned with a .22lr; but, but

---

but

---

I feel well gunned with a .327. :guns: well maybe 2
Then there is the issue of the 10mm backup.

NCFUBAR

ericb wrote: »

:uhm:

What is ethical about self defense? If I am in survival mode, I am gonna be the most unethical f'er you will ever meet.. Bite, kick, even do the **** twister if necessary. If all I have is a .22 I am shooting for the head and the nuts.

:agree: :that:

FAIR FIGHT ---- that's an oxymoron and I might be slow but I ain't no moron.

That said I still would NEVER admit I shot for the head to ANYONE (priest, wife, much less police)!!!

ericb

NCFUBAR wrote: »

:agree: :that:

FAIR FIGHT ---- that's an oxymoron and I might be slow but I ain't no moron.

That said I still would NEVER admit I shot for the head to ANYONE (priest, wife, much less police)!!!

Never admit you shot for anything.... " he attacked me, I don't know how he ran into a bullet"

Shoemaker Seth

The SSS keyhole half the time out of the MK II. The velocitors don't. I'm sticking with them. Thanks for the replies, it's been an interesting, and hopefully purely academic discussion. I had no idea that it took a longer barrel to get sufficient velocity to initiate expansion. It's a good thing that there are more smarter people than me on here.

If I'm in a fight, something I've thankfully avoided my whole adult life, then I will be as unethical as I possibly can. I am positive that I won't have started it, so feel justified in using whatever means necesary to prevail. Hollow points, hot beverages, wedgies, and anything else goes.

NCFUBAR

Shoemaker Seth wrote: »

The SSS keyhole half the time out of the MK II.

One question ... did the SSS's cycle correctly or did you manually have to cycle them?

Shoemaker Seth

The SSS functioned perfectly except for the keyholing. They seemed to stabilize fine out of the 10/22 and cycled just fine.

.223sniper

ericb wrote: »

:uhm:

What is ethical about self defense? If I am in survival mode, I am gonna be the most unethical f'er you will ever meet.. Bite, kick, even do the **** twister if necessary. If all I have is a .22 I am shooting for the head and the nuts.

I assumed that because a .22 is used it was to stop, not mutilate. If your going for full out Russian on them i suggest the Judge revolver don't need to aim for the family jewels with a .410 handgun.

Bigslug

CCI Mini Mag copper plated solids - part number 00030. The won't suffer reduced penetration, fragmentation, or path-deviation like expanding rounds might, and they will feed reliably in your MKII.

More to the point though - I don't think I can remember EVER having a Mini Mag fail to go bang because of improper priming distribution. They're just darned reliable rounds.

Aguila SSS: probably OK over short distances, but it really needs a 1-9" twist barrel to stabilize. Pretty much all stock .22LR tubes are 1-16".

Velocitors: probably not bad if they work in your gun, but running @300fps hotter than what the gun was probably designed to run on. It's really a bolt action round - I wouldn't make a habit of 'em.

olesniper

I'd go with the CCI Quik Shok .22 round. The bullets break into 3 pieces upon impact. Designed by the same guy that came up with the Hydra-Shock, PMC Starfire, HST, and the EFMJ.

Eli

Ya know....99% of the time, I don't even have to respond to a post......I can just wait till Bigslug responds, and then say ditto.

I read through the whole thread, didn't see a suggestion for the CCI mini-mags, was going to point them out, get to the last post and damned if I wasn't beat to the punch! :tooth:


Oh well, since I like to hear myself talk, or read my own text as the case may be......I'll go ahead with my post anyway.

When you're talking about sending a .22 rimfire into another person, you're not going to get as much expansion as most people like, and you're sure as hell not going to get as much penetration as I want out of an anti-irritant handgun round.

What you should base your choice on, is the round that has (in your experience) had the best primer ignition in your particular gun.

I've been shooting CCI Mini-Mags since I was 4 years old, have been through probably 25,000 of the little buggers, and I don't think that I've ever had one fail to ignite.

As and aside .......... I carry an Airweight nasal inhaler in my back pocket.....I've got it loaded with 8 40 grn.CCI copper plated Mini-Mags.

.223sniper

bronx2snellville wrote: »

I would go with the CCI "STINGER" rounds. They are made for self-defense

They even say Varmint on them.

[Deleted User]

Bigslug wrote: »

CCI Mini Mag copper plated solids - part number 00030. The won't suffer reduced penetration, fragmentation, or path-deviation like expanding rounds might, and they will feed reliably in your MKII.

:win:

gunrunner428

Scott E. Mayer wrote: »

Just choose a standard velocity 40-gr. roundnose that works reliably.

Bigslug wrote: »

More to the point though - I don't think I can remember EVER having a Mini Mag fail to go bang because of improper priming distribution. They're just darned reliable rounds.

Eli wrote: »

What you should base your choice on, is the round that has (in your experience) had the best primer ignition in your particular gun.

:that:

.22 ammo, being rimfire, can be spotty with ignition in the "cheaper" ammo. If you're using .22 for any reason for defense, you want your ammo to go "bang" with boring regularity, not "click" on a dead space in the primer rim. Part of what you pay for in premium ammo is the consistency of the priming compound, fewer "dead spaces" around the rim. You may never get a misfire with a particular brand of .22, but Murphy being who he is, it would happen at the worst possible time. Cut your chances, and function-test for feeding with quality ammo.

Prior discussions comparing .22 to .25 ACP bring to mind this detail as part of my choice (should I have to make one) in choosing the centerfire .25 over the rimfire .22 for life-saving use.

BigDanS

Another option would be the Aguila SuperMAX, faster than a Stinger.

Here is a review of .22's shot from a 2.75 inch barrel into geletin:

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/22lr/gel22lr.htm

Best you can expect from it is likely 100FPE from a 6 inch barrel.

IMHO

D

Slanteyedshootist

Shoemaker Seth wrote: »

The SSS keyhole half the time out of the MK II. The velocitors don't. I'm sticking with them. Thanks for the replies, it's been an interesting, and hopefully purely academic discussion. I had no idea that it took a longer barrel to get sufficient velocity to initiate expansion. It's a good thing that there are more smarter people than me on here.

If I'm in a fight, something I've thankfully avoided my whole adult life, then I will be as unethical as I possibly can. I am positive that I won't have started it, so feel justified in using whatever means necesary to prevail. Hollow points, hot beverages, wedgies, and anything else goes.

You'd use a wedgie?! That's just plain mean and unethical.:nono::yikes::roll2:

justin10mm

I'm rather partial to Winchester 40gr. Power Points for maximum firepower.

BPsniper

.223sniper wrote: »

I assumed that because a .22 is used it was to stop, not mutilate. If your going for full out Russian on them.......

Would you mind expounding on this statement and the 'ethical' statement used earlier? I'm trying to see where you're coming from.

Shoemaker Seth

Some pretty knowledgeable folks have argued against high velocity high weight (40 gr.) bullet a la Velocitor in favor of the heavier standard velocity loads. I assume that the mini mags are primed the same as the Velocitors since they're from the same company, and so should be equally reliable as far as ignition goes.