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Trump Gun Ban-- Did You Turn Them In?

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  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    edited April 2019 #33

    From Jerm's article: 


    “Bump stocks are for the most part a placeholder in this lawsuit,” he said. “What this is about is government overreach. This is about the constitutional or the statutory authority that was lacking for the executive to promulgate such a rule.”

    Mark Chenoweth, executive director of the New Civil Liberties Alliance, which is representing Aposhian, fears that if the courts side with the Justice Department, it may open the door for more agencies to effectively rewrite laws passed by Congress.

    If the courts allow the executive branch to color outside the lines in this way, you can be guaranteed they'll do it in the future, regardless of the context,” he said.

    Aposhian, who bought his Slide Fire bump stock on clearance for less than $200, said the device came with a letter from the firearms bureau, commonly referred to as BATFE, informing him it could be legally owned and operated. The bump stock initially sat in his gun room, but since the Las Vegas killings, he has used it a handful of times, primarily for demonstrations to reporters seeking to understand how the accessory works.



    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,635 Senior Member
    So is Pres. Trump smart or is he anti 2A? If you want to make sure no future president can do this stuff, this is one way to do it.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,611 Senior Member
    I literally don't give a single, solitary, ripe red monkey's ass about slide/slam/bump fire anything... I think they're stupid in the extreme.

    But, as stupid as these things are, banning them is damned idiotic, even if it is "just politics".  I do not now believe, nor have I ever believed, that the current inhabitant of 1600 Pennsylvania is a "conservative" (whatever the hell THAT is) nor do I think he's a patriot... but I suppose history will have to decided that.  I think he's tapped into an emotion that we haven't seen before.  Call it racism, "angrywhiteguyness", call it whatever you will, but he saw it, tapped into it and made it his own.  I honestly am pretty pleased with how he's performed so far, but I have ZERO illusions that the Donald is in it for me.  I may actually vote for him in '20... or I may not, depending on what the other parties offer. 

    Do I think he engineered this ban as some machiavellian twist to make it harder for following presidents to do while preserving 2A rights for generations to come?

    Nope.  I don't think he gives a **** about guns - or rights - one way or the other.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    I think he tapped into anger at the political establishment. The media campaign and Democratic party investigations further exacerbated the anti-establishment anger that's been building for years. People don't like being patronized and talked down to and told what to think and how to talk and what to believe.

    Its just unfortunate that a better choice didn't materialize. 
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    I think his goal, initially, was to help rescue capitalism, while gratifying his narcissistic craving for applause. I don't think anyone was more surprised than he was, when he won.

    However, he rose to the occasion, to a certain extent, by actually experiencing the middle class in person, while traveling around the country. He seems to have become obsessed with keeping campaign promises, and that is the only reason he has remained popular with a group that has become absolutely disgusted with those who don't.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,611 Senior Member
    bisley said:
    I think his goal, initially, was to help rescue capitalism, while gratifying his narcissistic craving for applause. I don't think anyone was more surprised than he was, when he won.

    However, he rose to the occasion, to a certain extent, by actually experiencing the middle class in person, while traveling around the country. He seems to have become obsessed with keeping campaign promises, and that is the only reason he has remained popular with a group that has become absolutely disgusted with those who don't.
    I don't see anything here I could disagree with.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,671 Senior Member
    I find bumpstocks to be not much more than an entertaining toy. Ever since firing an M-16 in full auto in basic training in 1970, I have had a fascination with it. I bought one so I could re-live that fascination, but I found that after running 10 or12 30 round mags through it I found out it caused damage to the action in my AR, and it was difficult to control. Not really practical in any sense of the word, and certainly not useful in a combat situation, because it had hiccups along the way, including rounds failing to elect properly once there was damage to the rifle.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 885 Senior Member
    edited April 2019 #40
    Precedent has been established, and now

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/22/politics/kamala-harris-gun-proposal/index.html

    This is is why you never cede ground, and it should never be your guy that does it and thereby grants the power to the other side.  The Trump atf ruling will be regretted by all gun owners in the future.  It is not about bump stocks.  It is about gun rights and more importantly separations of power, and the proper legislative process.
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,926 Senior Member
    I do have a question about the title of this thread...what gun got banned?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,667 Senior Member
    Kamala "Microstamping" Harris, again.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    I do have a question about the title of this thread...what gun got banned?
    Let me answer that with another question... If you were to mandate AR15's to only be single shot or pump action... AR15's wouldn't be banned either, would they?

    You can call it whatever you want. I am going to call it a gun ban.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Remember the Clinton gun ban? No actual guns were banned then either.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • ShannonHayesShannonHayes Posts: 211 Member
    I wouldn't say he was better than Hilary, because the reality is we don't know.  Just like we don't know how Al Gore would have handled Sept. 11 as POTUS, Wendell Wilkie would have guided the US in WWII, or what would have happened if Hitler had let competent generals lead in WWII.

    I will say he's probably better than Hillary, but the reality is it's not a definite.  She coulda been stuck with a Republican Congress and been hamstrung.  It's highly likely he's a better POTUS than she would have been, but for a definitive, well, we really don't know.

    Again, I'll stand by my statement that the Trump Administration has curtailed firearms rights more than the Obama administration, who actually did more to recognize those rights. 
    Obama was an anti Second Amendment, Freedom hating, worst POTUS in the history of our great country. Trump , not. Trump has done or tried to do everything he said he would during his campaign to make this country great again and fix Obama's f*&# ups. Do I agree with everything he's done and will do? No! But, there is no POTUS, and no person that ANYONE  has ever or will ever completely agree with, its human nature! I still think Trump is the best President we've had since my Hero, Teddy Roosevelt(and no, I don't agree with everything about T.R., for example, he was a cop), and I still believe that Trump will do great things for us and our country, and support the Second Amendment more than hurt it. But, I am against any anti Second Amendment things, no matter who initiates or supports them!!!
  • ShannonHayesShannonHayes Posts: 211 Member
    CaliFFL said:
    Say what you will, but this sets a precedent. The next president (or this one) can declare military-styled semiautos as "destructive devices" and *poof* we are all felons. 

    Would this be the hill worth dying on? 

    Any Freedom, any Second Amendment right is a "hill worth dying for" !!!
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,611 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    Say what you will, but this sets a precedent. The next president (or this one) can declare military-styled semiautos as "destructive devices" and *poof* we are all felons. 

    Would this be the hill worth dying on? 

    Any Freedom, any Second Amendment right is a "hill worth dying for" !!!
    So you're against the bump stock ban?
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • ShannonHayesShannonHayes Posts: 211 Member
    Yes I'm against the bump stock ban! Why wouldn't I be?
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,611 Senior Member
    I agree... why wouldn't you be? 

    And yet, "the greatest president ever" was FOR this limitation of liberty... while the previous occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania did almost nothing to limit our 2A freedoms, except talk. 

    Weird, huh?
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • ShannonHayesShannonHayes Posts: 211 Member
    Not weird at all. Name one PERSON, not the least one POTUS, that you have agreed with everything they've said and done? And I never said that he was "the greatest President ever", I said that I thought he was the greatest President since the Great Teddy Roosevelt!
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 885 Senior Member
    Not weird at all. Name one PERSON, not the least one POTUS, that you have agreed with everything they've said and done?
    I can not disagree with this part of your statement in the least.  There will never be someone I agree with completely let alone have a group as a whole agree with completely.  However, the one that one compromises on should at the very least keep to one’s core beliefs.  I mean we are a gun board right.  Kinda into the 2nd amendment in a big way and all that.  

    How does one die on a hill fighting for a freedom taken away from them by their own leader? 
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,667 Senior Member
    This is why all y'alls need to vote for me for POTUS 2020! ;)
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • ShannonHayesShannonHayes Posts: 211 Member
    A lot of Patriots and actual War HEROES (here let me specify that IMHO a war HERO is of our guys or gals who honorably served in any War we've ever fought in, and ALL who have served honorably and/or who are serving honorably, war time or peace time, are HEROES) I know thought Reagan was great, but he wasn't 100% pro Second Amendment. Any true lover of Freedom is willing to die on any hill for any Freedom, regardless of who has taken it away or wants to take it away
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 885 Senior Member
    So what so what is the plan to oppose the bump stock ban?
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Accipiter said:
    So what so what is the plan to oppose the bump stock ban?
    DO NOT COMPLY. 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,926 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    Accipiter said:
    So what so what is the plan to oppose the bump stock ban?
    DO NOT COMPLY. 
    That works...as far as I know they are not serial numbered and unless the BATFEIEIO get the sales records from the manufacturer of the things as well as the sellers as well...no one really knows you have one....unless you are stupid enough to take one out in public and use it..,

    What this gets you I'm not sure unless you want to set at home and feel patriotic while you fondle your piece of the rebellion.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,096 Senior Member
    Plus a stay in "club fed" if you're caught, probably.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    edited May 2019 #58
    My comment wasn't really about bump fire devices. I've never even seen one.

    We have a clear violation of 5A (no compensation offered) and a very arguable violation of 2A by the president, via decree.

    The decree itself is illegal. I don't care what other government employees say or how the Trump apologists justify this to themselves. 

    I will not obey "laws" enacted in this manner. This is my line in the sand. 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • ShannonHayesShannonHayes Posts: 211 Member
    CaliFFL said:
    My comment wasn't really about bump fire devices. I've never even seen one.

    We have a clear violation of 5A (no compensation offered) and a very arguable violation of 2A by the president, via decree.

    The decree itself is illegal. I don't care what other government employees say or how the Trump apologists justify this to themselves. 

    I will not obey "laws" enacted in this manner. This is my line in the sand. 
    I agree with you. I will not obey ANY LAW that goes against our forefathers thought and definition of Freedom! I like Trump, but he was wrong, and I am not and will not apologize for this or any Second Amendment violation. I was just saying, there has never been any POTUS any one person could agree with everything they said or did, and never will be.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    My comment wasn't really about bump fire devices. I've never even seen one.

    We have a clear violation of 5A (no compensation offered) and a very arguable violation of 2A by the president, via decree.

    The decree itself is illegal. I don't care what other government employees say or how the Trump apologists justify this to themselves. 

    I will not obey "laws" enacted in this manner. This is my line in the sand. 

    I had never heard of a "bump stock" but had seen cam and crank devices. I know people who can replicate auto fire with their fingers only. I have somehow forgot their names. What is with the "draft saved" feature which interrupts my typing every 30 seconds???
  • das68das68 Posts: 662 Senior Member
    edited May 2019 #61
    A lot of Patriots and actual War HEROES (here let me specify that IMHO a war HERO is of our guys or gals who honorably served in any War we've ever fought in, and ALL who have served honorably and/or who are serving honorably, war time or peace time, are HEROES)
    well I was only ever doing the job
    but I was never one "of our guys or gals"

    Jayhawker said:
    CaliFFL said:
    Accipiter said:
    So what so what is the plan to oppose the bump stock ban?
    DO NOT COMPLY. 
    What this gets you I'm not sure unless you want to set at home and feel patriotic while you fondle your piece of the rebellion.

    I have one of those
    well it should be more than one
    such a small thing
    thats what the nurse screamed at me about
    to shut the **** up
    hope she was being kind




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