The Public Education System: A Huge Fail for America

JonathanBaileyJonathanBailey Posts: 48 Member
It's a shame whenever an American man can't provide for a wife and children. Old male pride once meant being financially successful: resourceful and competent in being a breadwinner whether he's a Hollywood actor, a doctor, a fisherman, a cowboy, a farmer, a lumberjack, a forest ranger, a policeman, a soldier, a carpenter, a lawyer, a business executive, a professional baseball player or a machinist. 

Our education has system (or lack thereof) has short-changed men and boys. It started in 1972 with Title IX and has gotten progressively worse since then. It lead to a huge bogus quota system: akin to affirmative action. The female sex has been out-enrolling male students in colleges and universities and even out-participating the fellows in collegiate and HS varsity sports. Politicians have put so much effort "in advancing women and girls"  to make them "feel good" about it that the male sex has been given a bad deal. It is natural law that the adult man be the breadwinner and the adult woman be the homemaker. Academic achievement and sometimes athletic achievement is necessary to make that possible. Another thing, there should be much more government funding for traditional trade schools too. The GI Bill, Pell Grants, scholarships, etc. should not be only eligible to be applied for for college/ academic/degree program studies but also for vocational training to be a carpenter, plumber, heavy equipment operator, welder, machinist, technician, truck driver, railroad worker, electrician etc,. because skilled trades are excellent and reliable sources of income especially for male family providers. 

We as a nation should be focused more on being economically successful than just merely college-educated. A master's degree does no good if one can't get a job to pay the bills on time. If a man wants federal financial aid to be trained as a carpenter, he should have the same opportunity as if he were to want to become a medical doctor, a civil engineer or an architect. America's infrastructure is crumbling. We now need many more carpenters, welders and cat-skinners than computer geeks and attorneys. 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/45-years-after-title-ix-americas-boys-need-equal-protection

Women now earn the majority of post-secondary degrees at every level. According to the U.S. Department of Education's National Center for Education Statistics, 52 percent of doctorates, 57 percent of master's degrees, 57 percent of bachelor degrees, and 61 percent of associate degrees are awarded to women.
America is not America without liberty and the necessary gun rights to defend it. 

Answers

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,457 Senior Member
    I've not attended any college or university. I don't think there's anything wrong with women or any other group gaining equal educational opportunity. The recent admissions scandal had me thinking about the state of higher education. I was remembering an in depth interview of an author I heard on the radio a few years ago. The author claimed Harvard medical school was actually teaching students that African American people feel less physical pain than other races. I can't comfirm or deny the truth of that absurdity, but my admiration of higher education is waning dramatically as a result of things being circulated in the news.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,570 Senior Member
    I know several widows and single Moms who might argue that men should be the bread winner
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,099 Senior Member
    ... I didn't raise my 3 daughters to depend on a man for her bread.
  • JonathanBaileyJonathanBailey Posts: 48 Member
    edited April 15 #5
    I've not attended any college or university. I don't think there's anything wrong with women or any other group gaining equal educational opportunity. The recent admissions scandal had me thinking about the state of higher education. I was remembering an in depth interview of an author I heard on the radio a few years ago. The author claimed Harvard medical school was actually teaching students that African American people feel less physical pain than other races. I can't comfirm or deny the truth of that absurdity, but my admiration of higher education is waning dramatically as a result of things being circulated in the news.
    Society has always had a much higher demand for men to achieve as economic providers than for women to do such. Any college education (or skilled-labor vocational training program) worth a damn should lead to a good (income-earning) employment or business opportunity. Reciting Shakespeare word for word by memory is unlikely to land me a job as a machinist. 
    America is not America without liberty and the necessary gun rights to defend it. 
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,502 Senior Member
    Don't bother pining for the past. It isn't coming back. It is the nature of civilization to be progressive. Even if it progresses itself out of existence......


    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • JonathanBaileyJonathanBailey Posts: 48 Member
    jbp-ohio said:
    Don't bother pining for the past. It isn't coming back. It is the nature of civilization to be progressive. Even if it progresses itself out of existence......


    I probably won't live to see that happen. I guess civilization will have to die and be born all over again. 
    America is not America without liberty and the necessary gun rights to defend it. 
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,936 Senior Member
    12 years and it's all over....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,099 Senior Member
    Last weekend, my girls left their "breadwinners" home and went up to my camp in northern Michigan. Once there, they gutted my 5th wheel with crow bars and sledge hammers and loaded the debris into the dump trailer. They split wood for the camp fire too. I "supervised" while drinking beer by the camp fire and cooked for them.

    My fragile little flowers!

    Sometimes, the two oldest want to make some extra money on dad's construction sites pouring concrete to supplement their career income (one is a dental tech, the other is a cosmetologist). They aren't allowed to hang with the boys unless they can hold their own (they usually outwork them). With no punches pulled, those kids work their asses off.

    Genetically, women are weaker. But even doing concrete, it isn't so much about physical strength but more about the will to get stuff done. Believe it or not, women are human just like us guys. They deserve to be treated that way.

    A good argument can be made that Title IX is being abused to make men less than equal. I want my son and daughters to be treated as equals with equal opportunities. Nothing more, nothing less. If this is what you are trying to say, I would suggest that you make it in a much less misogynistic way.



  • das68das68 Posts: 568 Senior Member
     Reciting Shakespeare word for word by memory is unlikely to land me a job as a machinist. 
    why?

    History is littered with wars which everybody knew would never happen.

    Enoch Powell

  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,606 Senior Member
    I have known several machinists who could read. If I were hiring one, I would likely favor the applicant who could quote Shakespeare, ahead of the one who could quote Sponge-Bob, if their actual mechanical abilities appeared to be equal.

    But that's just me.
  • das68das68 Posts: 568 Senior Member
    bisley said:
    I have known several machinists who could read. If I were hiring one, I would likely favor the applicant who could quote Shakespeare, ahead of the one who could quote Sponge-Bob, if their actual mechanical abilities appeared to be equal.

    But that's just me.

    all's well that ends well then






    History is littered with wars which everybody knew would never happen.

    Enoch Powell

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,288 Senior Member
    I will agree that our so-called education "system" is in need of a 1,500 year checkup. Having to learn irrelevant crap in order to get a degree to earn a living is ridiculous. A good solid "three Rs", plus what's needed for your career path should be all that's required.  I'm a HUGE proponent of Vocational ed.
    Academia is, first and foremost, designed to be self-perpetuating (being derived from the monastic model) - I worked in academia for over 20 years and learned a lot about higher education. Above all else, academia is inefficient, wasteful, and has little relevancy to the real world.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,334 Senior Member
    As a 30+ year veteran of the public education system, I agree that it's messed up, but it has nothing to do with male/female ratios.  Your rant is just plain silly, and most of us here probably got a good laugh from reading it.  When I had to teach high school age auto mechanics students the principles of  basic math, physics and chemistry before I could get around to teaching my trade, and a lot of them were too illiterate to read and understand service manuals written on an 8th. grade reading level, something is definitely wrong with the "education" our tax dollars are providing to our children.  Then once they have a high school diploma in hand that a lot of them can't read, the "higher education" system goes about brainwashing them into compliant little liberal drones.  A huge number of them are still unable to survive in the world of business and repay the astronomical debt they have accumulated to get that master's degree in Outdoor Masturbation!   
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,600 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    Academia is, first and foremost, designed to be self-perpetuating (being derived from the monastic model) - I worked in academia for over 20 years and learned a lot about higher education. Above all else, academia is inefficient, wasteful, and has little relevancy to the real world.

    Did you ever consider that maybe the area of academia that you worked in was "inefficient, wasteful, and has little relevancy to the real world"? I've done mechanical repair in various forms for the greater majority of my life and I use what I learned in chemistry, algebra, and geometry almost daily. 
     To the op, my significant other has a masters and two BA degrees and used all of that education to make children smarter and better adults. She retired in 2017 after 37 years of teaching and has a large list of former students that are successful adults who can attribute some of their sucess to learning how to read and write in school. The current education system is a huge mess and will get worse before it gets better but if a student actually wants to learn, the opportunity is available but if a student isn't interested in getting smarter, the system doesn't care as long as the scores and numbers look good. And Debbie is outside tilling the garden while I'm playing around on the internet. When she's done with the garden, she'll feed the horses and mow the pasture. Hopefully she won't break a nail.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,288 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib said:Did you ever consider that maybe the area of academia that you worked in was "inefficient, wasteful, and has little relevancy to the real world"? I've done mechanical repair in various forms for the greater majority of my life and I use what I learned in chemistry, algebra, and geometry almost daily.
    And thus you needed chemistry, algebra and geometry for your job! Not arguing about that. Its all the other crap they make you take. My job involved algebra and certain branches of physics, as well as boolean logic.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 1,793 Senior Member
    Yes, there are issues with education. However, our education system might be better if parents would actually parent their children. If dad was was around. And if grandparents and great grandparents weren't having to raise children. I don't think a lot of people realize just how bad drugs have affected our society. And I'm not just talking about opioids. A fairly significant number of the middle school students at my school are currently living with someone other than a parent. Most of the time it because of drugs. 


  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 85 Member
    My wife made more money than me before she chose to stay home with the kids, and has recently started a home business that has potential to make a lot more money than me.

    I do pretty good as a tradesman and began as a carpenter.  I learned to be a carpenter on the Job.  Didn’t need to go to school for it.  I also learned roofing, welding, plumbing, electrical, hvac, and you name it the same way.  I do not like hiring guys out of a trade school.  My experience is that they think they know more than they do, and it is hard to get them to unlearn some of the things they learned.  I like starting with a blank slate.

    Anyway my wife has a BS in chemistry, and biology.  She also has an MBA in finance.  She paid for her undergraduate with a 100% academic scholarship that she didn’t need a handout to get.  She is like 10,000 times smarter than me, and I am glad she is a breadwinner.  She doesn’t need to take **** from any man.  I have a daughter on the way and she will be raised to achieve on her own also.

    I think if a woman chooses to be a home maker it is her choice, not some cultural obligation.


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