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Leupold no longer lists any silver-finish scope models!! Waaaaah!

JonathanBaileyJonathanBailey Posts: 58 Member

So, I will have to go with a matte black one of sorts for Indiana woodchucks. Name a good Leupold Gold Ring scope model for chucks up to 500 yards. I plan to mount this on a Weatherby Vanguard Weatherguard rifle in .243 Win. The rifle has a black Monte Carlo Griptonite stock that features gray pistol grip and forend inserts. The gun's metalwork is Tactical Grey Cerakote which appears silver in the bright light. Weatherby offers several different VANGUARD® LIGHTWEIGHT SCOPE MOUNTS by Talley in 1" Medium, 1" Low and 30mm Low. They all come in matte black but 1" Medium offers a silver option. I don't know which mounts would work best for the appropriate Leupold varmint scope I need. Should scope mount selection be best made on the advice of a gunsmith? Would matte black scope mounts look best with a matte black scope on a silver barrel? I would want mounts that either match the finish of the scope or the gun's metal work. 


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Replies

  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,928 Senior Member
    edited April 2019 #2
    Never saw the draw for a shiny scope...but hey, whatever floats your boat...

    As far a mounting your scope...EGW Picatinny base, Burris Xtreme Tactical Rings...will provide a bullet proof mount for your scope...and no...you don't need to consult a gunsmith...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • das68das68 Posts: 662 Senior Member
    edited April 2019 #3

    a Weatherby Vanguard Weatherguard rifle in .243 Win.


    22" or 24" barrel is that?

    and put the worry beads away



  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,262 Senior Member
    You've got what's advertised as a weatherproof rifle.  You're going to look pretty silly when your carbon steel mounting hardware start rusting on you.  Do the silver mounts & rings to match the metal and a matte black scope that matches the stock.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JonathanBaileyJonathanBailey Posts: 58 Member
    edited April 2019 #5
    Bigslug said:
    You've got what's advertised as a weatherproof rifle.  You're going to look pretty silly when your carbon steel mounting hardware start rusting on you.  Do the silver mounts & rings to match the metal and a matte black scope that matches the stock.
    Here's the thing, the Talley Vanguard mounts/rings are only available in MEDIUM height 1" for the silver finish. Will medium height work for a varmint scope? What objective size? 40mm? Otherwise, I might have to go with another brand. Leupold carries a line of their own mounts. Perhaps after purchasing the rifle and the scope, the local gunsmith should then probably decide and order the proper mounting system in the proper size and finish for the varmint rig. I will let him know to try to get all-weather mounts. 

    The gunsmith chose and ordered Browning mounts/rings in gloss black/blue? finish back in 1996 when I purchased my Browning A-Bolt II in .25-06 w/ checkered walnut stock and gloss blue metal finish and my gloss-black Leupold Vari-X II 1.75-6x32mm separate gold ring scope as a deer rig. My gunsmith mounted and bore-sighted my scope. 

    When a scope is properly mounted on a bolt-action rifle, there are a number of things to consider:

    1. proper eye relief for the shooter
    2. shooter face and cheek shape and comb of stock
    3. proper scope bell clearance from the barrel
    4. cosmetics of scope position: turrets should be centered between front and rear rings and the reticle should not be cockeyed when the gun is held vertical
    5. the lowest scope mount possible should be chosen to meet the above objectives
  • das68das68 Posts: 662 Senior Member


    When a scope is properly mounted on a bolt-action rifle, there are a number of things to consider:

    1. proper eye relief for the shooter
    2. shooter face and cheek shape and comb of stock
    3. proper scope bell clearance from the barrel
    4. cosmetics of scope position: turrets should be centered between front and rear rings and the reticle should not be cockeyed when the gun is held vertical
    5. the lowest scope mount possible should be chosen to meet the above objectives

    school day every day



  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,262 Senior Member
    How do you define "varmint scope"?  If this is a coyote gun, treat it like a deer rifle and mount a standard 2.5-8x36 or 3.5-10x40 on lowish rings and call it good.

    Leupold lows typically get you to 40mm lenses with room for a Butler creek flip up cover assuming no extra bulk like an adjustable objective.  42mm is where you typically start to need mediums, but there is no set Rosetta Stone translator for this - rifle, base type, ring type, and who made all three all play.  Add a fat barrel or a rear sight and it's all out the window.  If you're a short guy who needs the scope farther back, you might need extension rings or a full set of Picatinny slots and extra height to clear the bell off the barrel as the scope moves back. . .and you might even need to take a belt sander or half-round file to the front corner of the mount.  Be prepared to fidget.  Check your vendor's return policy or live warm in the knowledge that you have a spare set of rings in a drawer somewhere.

    Remember that an AR-15's line of sight is 2.5 inches above the bore, and having it that high has some nice perks in terms of bullet rise and fall over combat distances - the 50 and 200 meter zeroes being the same setting, for example.  A little more or less altitude to make a scope work typically doesn't mean diddly to the mechanics of the system.  Maybe you have a tight cheekbone contact on the stock; maybe you learn to sit up a little higher; maybe you strap on a cheek pad - it's not the rocket science many make it out to be.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JonathanBaileyJonathanBailey Posts: 58 Member
    edited April 2019 #8
    "Varmint scope" = a glass sight for taking chucks up to 500 yards. I tend to associate these with objective lenses of at least 40 mm. I consider a deer scope about "32mm-ish". Must have come from reading Gun Digest annual publications in the 1990's. I plan to hunt chucks in Indiana, not yotes or foxes. No ground squirrels there. 
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,928 Senior Member

    When a scope is properly mounted on a bolt-action rifle, there are a number of things to consider:

    1. proper eye relief for the shooter
    2. shooter face and cheek shape and comb of stock
    3. proper scope bell clearance from the barrel
    4. cosmetics of scope position: turrets should be centered between front and rear rings and the reticle should not be cockeyed when the gun is held vertical
    5. the lowest scope mount possible should be chosen to meet the above objectives
    Thank you for the tutorial on mounting scopes.....because no one here knows a damn thing about it...

    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member

    When a scope is properly mounted on a bolt-action rifle, there are a number of things to consider:

    1. proper eye relief for the shooter
    2. shooter face and cheek shape and comb of stock
    3. proper scope bell clearance from the barrel
    4. cosmetics of scope position: turrets should be centered between front and rear rings and the reticle should not be cockeyed when the gun is held vertical
    5. the lowest scope mount possible should be chosen to meet the above objectives

    With all of this knowledge, why do you pay a gunsmith to mount your scopes for you?
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • JonathanBaileyJonathanBailey Posts: 58 Member

    When a scope is properly mounted on a bolt-action rifle, there are a number of things to consider:

    1. proper eye relief for the shooter
    2. shooter face and cheek shape and comb of stock
    3. proper scope bell clearance from the barrel
    4. cosmetics of scope position: turrets should be centered between front and rear rings and the reticle should not be cockeyed when the gun is held vertical
    5. the lowest scope mount possible should be chosen to meet the above objectives

    With all of this knowledge, why do you pay a gunsmith to mount your scopes for you?
    Book knowledge to does not equate to hand-on skills, technical training and special tools and equipment needed to do the job correctly. Because I know that an airplane depends on gravity, drag, lift and thrust to fly, doesn't mean I have the qualifications to pilot a 747. 
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,262 Senior Member
    4.5-14x40 with side-adjustment parallax knob in the 30mm tube variant then.  That will let you get a little lower (no moveable parts on the objective) and gives you more room inside the scope for elevation adjustment.

    Leupold has Long Range bases for the Vanguard that will give you an extra 20 MOA of "up", which will keep your crosshairs closer to the optical center of the lenses with a long range zero.  You give up stainless, but unless rock chucking in the rain is your thing, probably no big loss.  Leupold's QRW and PRW rings have some kind of enamel finish which holds up decently.

    Medium rings with that combo should get it done.  Email Leupold - they're pretty sharp on such things.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JonathanBaileyJonathanBailey Posts: 58 Member
    Bigslug said:
    4.5-14x40 with side-adjustment parallax knob in the 30mm tube variant then.  That will let you get a little lower (no moveable parts on the objective) and gives you more room inside the scope for elevation adjustment.

    Leupold has Long Range bases for the Vanguard that will give you an extra 20 MOA of "up", which will keep your crosshairs closer to the optical center of the lenses with a long range zero.  You give up stainless, but unless rock chucking in the rain is your thing, probably no big loss.  Leupold's QRW and PRW rings have some kind of enamel finish which holds up decently.

    Medium rings with that combo should get it done.  Email Leupold - they're pretty sharp on such things.
    Good idea, Big Slug. Ask Leupold questions. I don't plan to do any wood chuckin' in foul weather, but in Indiana, who knows what can be thrown at a hunter by mother nature at any time. Since I'm opting for a Weatherguard rifle, it only makes sense to get a scope and mounting system with equal weather protection. 
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,928 Senior Member
    So operating a screwdriver is not one of your skill sets...I understand...

    One thing about firearms...you really should acquire the basic tools and learn to perform maintenance and basic chores - like mounting a scope....

    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member

    When a scope is properly mounted on a bolt-action rifle, there are a number of things to consider:

    1. proper eye relief for the shooter
    2. shooter face and cheek shape and comb of stock
    3. proper scope bell clearance from the barrel
    4. cosmetics of scope position: turrets should be centered between front and rear rings and the reticle should not be cockeyed when the gun is held vertical
    5. the lowest scope mount possible should be chosen to meet the above objectives

    With all of this knowledge, why do you pay a gunsmith to mount your scopes for you?
    Book knowledge to does not equate to hand-on skills, technical training and special tools and equipment needed to do the job correctly. Because I know that an airplane depends on gravity, drag, lift and thrust to fly, doesn't mean I have the qualifications to pilot a 747. 

    I've mount scopes and flown aircraft and mounting scopes is quite a bit less technical. I got my first scoped rifle in 1973 and I couldn't begin to guess how many rifles I've mounted scopes on over the years and I've never paid someone to do it. I would say mounting a scope is on the same level as fixing a flat tire on a bicycle.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • JonathanBaileyJonathanBailey Posts: 58 Member
    edited April 2019 #16

    When a scope is properly mounted on a bolt-action rifle, there are a number of things to consider:

    1. proper eye relief for the shooter
    2. shooter face and cheek shape and comb of stock
    3. proper scope bell clearance from the barrel
    4. cosmetics of scope position: turrets should be centered between front and rear rings and the reticle should not be cockeyed when the gun is held vertical
    5. the lowest scope mount possible should be chosen to meet the above objectives

    With all of this knowledge, why do you pay a gunsmith to mount your scopes for you?
    Book knowledge to does not equate to hand-on skills, technical training and special tools and equipment needed to do the job correctly. Because I know that an airplane depends on gravity, drag, lift and thrust to fly, doesn't mean I have the qualifications to pilot a 747. 

    I've mount scopes and flown aircraft and mounting scopes is quite a bit less technical. I got my first scoped rifle in 1973 and I couldn't begin to guess how many rifles I've mounted scopes on over the years and I've never paid someone to do it. I would say mounting a scope is on the same level as fixing a flat tire on a bicycle.
    A gunsmith is going to have a book with all the proper torque specifications for the screws, I imagine. I was a light-wheeled vehicle mechanic in the army by MOS and latter a civilian automobile service technician by trade. I do most of the work on my own car and truck. Weapons are far more sensitive and fragile when it comes to laying tools on them. You can't beat them with a hammer or use car tools on them. In the military, we had unit armorers who were weapons specialists to do repairs beyond what the soldier normally did for individual maintenance on his rifle. A civilian gun and scope are both highly-precision instruments like a Rolex watch. 

    The military does not like glass sights on standard issue rifles because they can't hold up to battle like iron sights. A hunting field is a relatively more clinical (gentler and cleaner) environment for scoped rifles than is a battlefield. 
  • das68das68 Posts: 662 Senior Member
    edited April 2019 #17


    The military does not like glass sights on standard issue rifles because they can't hold up to battle like iron sights.

    what utter bo..

    (the two oval organs that produce sperm

    enclosed in the scrotum)


    even in the rain




    JonathanBailey said:                                                                                                                               Book knowledge to does not equate to hand-on skills,
    a clue
    :|


  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member

    The military does not like glass sights on standard issue rifles because they can't hold up to battle like iron sights. A hunting field is a relatively more clinical (gentler and cleaner) environment for scoped rifles than is a battlefield. 

    In the 70's when I was in the military this was true but holograpic sights were developed around 1996 and by 2001 the US military equiped a few special forces units with them and by 2004 had placed orders for 77,000 of them. Those were EOTechs but now the US military uses several different optics and they have in fact become standard issue.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,928 Senior Member

    The military does not like glass sights on standard issue rifles because they can't hold up to battle like iron sights. A hunting field is a relatively more clinical (gentler and cleaner) environment for scoped rifles than is a battlefield. 
    You're kidding,right? Where did you read that?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JonathanBaileyJonathanBailey Posts: 58 Member
    edited April 2019 #20
    Jayhawker said:

    The military does not like glass sights on standard issue rifles because they can't hold up to battle like iron sights. A hunting field is a relatively more clinical (gentler and cleaner) environment for scoped rifles than is a battlefield. 
    You're kidding,right? Where did you read that?
    I know this because I've been both a soldier and a hunter. I got out of the army in 1995. Iron sights on issue M16's up until then. In BASIC training, I slammed my weapon down onto the ground buttstock first in the wet sandy terrain of Fort Jackson, SC. The weapon went through rain, puddles, sand, mud and snow. It was banged against trees and rocks. As a fair-weather hunter in the sunshine, my rifle and scope was babied in the field and very carefully handled so as not to put a single scratch on the gun. No falling to the ground, low crawling and rolling as in the infantry. No muddy foxholes. 
  • JonathanBaileyJonathanBailey Posts: 58 Member
    Bigslug said:
    4.5-14x40 with side-adjustment parallax knob in the 30mm tube variant then.  That will let you get a little lower (no moveable parts on the objective) and gives you more room inside the scope for elevation adjustment.

    Leupold has Long Range bases for the Vanguard that will give you an extra 20 MOA of "up", which will keep your crosshairs closer to the optical center of the lenses with a long range zero.  You give up stainless, but unless rock chucking in the rain is your thing, probably no big loss.  Leupold's QRW and PRW rings have some kind of enamel finish which holds up decently.

    Medium rings with that combo should get it done.  Email Leupold - they're pretty sharp on such things.

    Bigslug said:
    4.5-14x40 with side-adjustment parallax knob in the 30mm tube variant then.  That will let you get a little lower (no moveable parts on the objective) and gives you more room inside the scope for elevation adjustment.

    Leupold has Long Range bases for the Vanguard that will give you an extra 20 MOA of "up", which will keep your crosshairs closer to the optical center of the lenses with a long range zero.  You give up stainless, but unless rock chucking in the rain is your thing, probably no big loss.  Leupold's QRW and PRW rings have some kind of enamel finish which holds up decently.

    Medium rings with that combo should get it done.  Email Leupold - they're pretty sharp on such things.
    I emailed Leupold yesterday as follows:

    Hello. Please name a good ($300-$400) Leupold (varmint) scope for
    shooting small targets as woodchucks up to 500-yards. This would be
    mounted on a new Weatherby Vanguard Weatherguard bolt-action rifle in
    .243 Win. I would also need the proper Leupold mounting system for the
    gun/scope combination. Both the scope and the mounts, regardless of
    finish color, should be as weather-resistant as the gun itself. 

    ....and I have an answer to day: here's the verdict from Beaverton, OR for long range chucks on an all-weather Vanguard .243:


    I would say the closest option we would have would be the following scope:

    174665 VX-Freedom 4-12x40 (1 inch) Tri-MOA


    As for mounting hardware, I would go with the following bases and rings, though we make a ton of options that would work:

    171514 BackCountry Cross-Slot Weatherby Vanguard SA 1-pc Matte
    175116 BackCountry Cross-Slot 1" Low Rings Matte

    Thanks,
    Colby

  • das68das68 Posts: 662 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:

    The military does not like glass sights on standard issue rifles because they can't hold up to battle like iron sights. A hunting field is a relatively more clinical (gentler and cleaner) environment for scoped rifles than is a battlefield. 
    You're kidding,right? Where did you read that?
    I know this because I've been both a soldier and a hunter. I got out of the army in 1995. Iron sights on issue M16's up until then. In BASIC training, I slammed my weapon down onto the ground buttstock first in the wet sandy terrain of Fort Jackson, SC. The weapon went through rain, puddles, sand, mud and snow. It was banged against trees and rocks. As a fair-weather hunter in the sunshine, my rifle and scope was babied in the field and very carefully handled so as not to put a single scratch on the gun. No falling to the ground, low crawling and rolling as in the infantry. No muddy foxholes. 
    well that’s that then
    1995 and fort jackson
    wet sandy terrain
    and trees and rocks



  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,928 Senior Member
    The military in 1995 was vastly different...today, optics are a standard item nowadays...which renders your opinion regarding the military and optics moot....

    Your continued attempts to educate this august group, which has, collectively, a couple of hundred years worth of firearms/weapons experience is somewhat condescending....

    Please hang around...ask questions...you might learn a thing or two

    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JonathanBaileyJonathanBailey Posts: 58 Member
    Jayhawker said:
    The military in 1995 was vastly different...today, optics are a standard item nowadays...which renders your opinion regarding the military and optics moot....

    Your continued attempts to educate this august group, which has, collectively, a couple of hundred years worth of firearms/weapons experience is somewhat condescending....

    Please hang around...ask questions...you might learn a thing or two

    Mr. Hawker:

    I was only trying to answer your question from above.


    "You're kidding,right? Where did you read that?"


    My bad. I should have said, "I never read that: I learned it by doing." 

    Otherwise, I don't know why the army did not issue scopes to soldiers for M16's prior to 1996. 

    My issued soldiers manuals (smart books) never had anything printed regarding scopes prior to 1996 or at least when I was in. It was my understanding that only military snipers had scopes in the old days. I don't even know what weapon soldiers have issued to them nowadays: I've heard rumors some time ago that something replaced the M16: that the army was phasing them out. 


  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,928 Senior Member
    You need more recent material...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JonathanBaileyJonathanBailey Posts: 58 Member
    Jayhawker said:
    You need more recent material...
    Well, I've been a civilian since mid-1995 and new military knowledge seems irrelevant to me now. I don't even like the new uniforms that replaced our BDUs. 

    Nowadays, I concentrate on acquiring or trying to acquire gun knowledge most relevant to hunting and personal security. 
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    edited April 2019 #27
    I never was in the military, I failed my physical, but if I would have passed I'd been in way before all this happened. That was in 1969. The only scopes I had seen on military rifles of that period were sniper rifles.

    However, to say optics won't hold up in battle I have to disagree. I've got a 40 year old Weaver steel tube made in El Paso K-6 that a friend told me once it was so tough you could use it to put shingles on the roof. Anyway, I've had it on 4 different rifles and it is in waiting for use when the need arises. I've got several scopes that would stand up to the abuse.

    Also, as for holding up in the weather, I only have one silver scope and all the rest of them have endured several hunting seasons in southern Texas where it rains alot in the fall and none is the worse for wear. I just spray 'em down with some Liquid Wrench spray lube oil or Rem-Oil and wipe the excess off. You can watch the water bead off in the rain. If your scope and/or mounts are that wimpy to rust during one hunting trip then maybe you need to get some Krylon. Or better still wax 'em down with some Johnson's Wax. They aren't like POO and melt in the rain. When you get home wipe 'em down with a dry cloth and spray em with Rem-Oil. I've used Leupold, Redfield and Weaver mounts and never seen one rust when I did this.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    Might be easier and actually fulfilling to take a stab at learning to mount optics yourself. The internet is a vast wealth of instructional info. If I can do it anyone can. A little quiet time tinkering can be as therapeutic as hunting and shooting.

    The groundhogs won't shoot back. Minor errors can usually be corrected without loss of life snd fortune.
  • JonathanBaileyJonathanBailey Posts: 58 Member
    edited April 2019 #29
    das68 said:


    The military does not like glass sights on standard issue rifles because they can't hold up to battle like iron sights.

    what utter bo..

    (the two oval organs that produce sperm

    enclosed in the scrotum)


    even in the rain




    JonathanBailey said:                                                                                                                               Book knowledge to does not equate to hand-on skills,
    a clue
    :|

    Can the old Queen pilot an English fighter jet in her gorgeous white gloves and Easter bonnet? I don't know much about modern British planes. 
  • das68das68 Posts: 662 Senior Member
    edited April 2019 #30
    das68 said:


    The military does not like glass sights on standard issue rifles because they can't hold up to battle like iron sights.

    what utter bo..

    (the two oval organs that produce sperm

    enclosed in the scrotum)


    even in the rain




    JonathanBailey said:                                                                                                                               Book knowledge to does not equate to hand-on skills,
    a clue
    :|

    Can the old Queen pilot an English fighter jet in her gorgeous white gloves and Easter bonnet? I don't know much about modern British planes. 

     standard issue optics

    one form or other

    in active service for over 30 years



  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 2,122 Senior Member

    The groundhogs won't shoot back. Minor errors can usually be corrected without loss of life and fortune.
    You sure about that?  😁




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