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The new mid engine Corvette.

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  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 885 Senior Member
    I had a clutch go out when I was at an out of town wedding.  90 VW Jetta.  I had to drive through town to the reception, and then 600 miles home.  The highway stuff was cake.  The red lights not so much.  It is not very hard at all to up shift.  Down shifting and matching rpms was a little tricky.  I just slowly goosed the motor while lightly putting pressure on the shifter towards the gear.  Once the rpms lined up, it slid nicely into gear.  I would have to shut the car off at a red light and start it in gear to get it going.  That was no fun in an unfamiliar city.  It paid to know how to do it.  I would have been stranded if I had not had the know how.
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • rberglofrberglof Senior Member Posts: 2,656 Senior Member
    Accipiter said:
    I had a clutch go out when I was at an out of town wedding.  90 VW Jetta.  I had to drive through town to the reception, and then 600 miles home.  The highway stuff was cake.  The red lights not so much.  It is not very hard at all to up shift.  Down shifting and matching rpms was a little tricky.  I just slowly goosed the motor while lightly putting pressure on the shifter towards the gear.  Once the rpms lined up, it slid nicely into gear.  I would have to shut the car off at a red light and start it in gear to get it going.  That was no fun in an unfamiliar city.  It paid to know how to do it.  I would have been stranded if I had not had the know how.
    Been there and done that. 60s VW square back
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,156 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #64
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • HappySquidHappySquid Member Posts: 380 Member
    GunNut said:
    Accipiter said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    For me, its all about the interaction with the machinery - an automatic takes part of that away. With that said, I do manual shifting on automatics, esp. downshifting to help slow down and as speed regulation on hills.
    I drove a new Ford truck with an automatic - 8 speed I think. No question, it was a thing of beauty and the driver could have full control over it. I still want a stick - I want the fun and interaction - and the lower purchase price and better reliability.
    I ABSOLUTELY understand but we must not confuse nostalgia and fun with true performance.  There is not ONE professional driver out there on a track with a clutch/manual transmission in their car.
    I think NASCAR still uses manual transmissions.
    Ahhhhh a very interesting point, and I truly appreciate you catching that.  I should have been very specific that I was talking F1 racing which is where a lot of our car technology gets proven before it gets into normal people vehicles.  Things like Audi's Quattro all wheel drive were born out of F1 Racing.

    Nope, AUDI never participated in F1 racing
    And F1 cars don not have automatic gearboxes, they have an automatic clutch


    NASCAR has gone out of their way to stay well behind the times in car/racing technology.  They only abandoned carburetors for the 2012 season.  Well after just about every one had electronic injection engines.  They intentionally limit the use of technology to even out the field because in theory that makes the driver the star of the show.  Their transmissions could just as easily be paddle shifters since you do not need to use the clutch to shift as explained below.

    How Many Gears Does A Nascar Car Have?

    There are only four gears in a NASCAR car, but that is a very important distinction because they do not use synchros in these cars. You can change gear any time you want as long as you match the road speed. If you consider that, you will realize that the drivers have to have an incredible feel for the car. You cannot drive on this level and not understand the feeling the car gives you when you are ready to change gear, and it shows you that they are not always driving with the throttle wide open.

    What Kind Of Transmission Does Nascar Use?
    The transmission in a NASCAR car is a four speed manual. However, as mentioned above, you do not have to use a clutch. There is no need for the drivers to do the regular gear changes in your road car. You will change the gears when you have the road speed matched. That means that the drivers have to drive on feel alone. They do not even get to have that gauge in the car. They have do that all based on the sound and feel of the car.


  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,221 Senior Member
    The car that surprised me was my 2013 Kia Soul. Of all the cars I have driven recently, it's the only one that doesn't lag when I use the shift mode on the auto transmission.

    I don't mind a well done auto. If the Corvette had a gate that allowed you to manually select and hold the gear, that would be okay. 
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,637 Senior Member
    Tugar said:
    The car that surprised me was my 2013 Kia Soul. Of all the cars I have driven recently, it's the only one that doesn't lag when I use the shift mode on the auto transmission.
    Interesting - I didn't know this was an issue with manual modes on autos, but I can tell you the reason: A combination of electro-mechanical lag (probably minimal) coupled with the latency that comes from the crappy programming and design of the computers (probably most of it). I've even driven vehicles with latency on the HORN. I could write better code than this on a 1970s vintage microprocessor!
    Good on Kia for paying attention.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,759 Senior Member
    Sorry meant Le Mans.  I get my European racing confused.  Oh well not that important a subject.  I’ll just go back to guns.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Sorry meant Le Mans.  I get my European racing confused.  Oh well not that important a subject.  I’ll just go back to guns.
    I think Audi mostly participates in rally racing, but, I knew what you meant.  No need to apologize anyway, as sunny manufacturer can benefit from technology used in any venue, even if they don't participate in that series. 
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • GilaGila Posts: 1,828 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    That brings up another point: Passenger cars are all way over powered these days.
    Nope, I only have 500 hp at the wheels on mine right now, but then, it's still a work in progress...  :D
    No good deed goes unpunished...
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,637 Senior Member
    Anything over 100 hp in a passenger car is a waste - as far as I'm concerned. And I can "get by" with far less than that.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 2,119 Senior Member
    Some of us don't like to just "get by".  Horsepower is like tools.....there is no such thing as "too much".  :D
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,637 Senior Member
    I in turn like to get what I need and nothing more. That's just me.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    You might be surprised Gila, these newer automatic transs are tough to beat. Me, for what I like to do with HP I prefer a great automatic. And the dual clutch is a positive shift. Nobody can outshift a newer automatic. Back in the day the old 4 speed hydros would lock up and be almost as efficient as a manual. Those were the ones put in some GM cars from 1958 through 1964. The Turbo Hydramatics put the old four speeds out of business. But while being great transmissions, the didn't have it like the old 4 speeds. You get down on a 61 Bonneville or even a Cadillac you would smoke the back tires off. Turbo Hydramatics, Powerglides, Dynaflows Etc. didn't have the positive lockup like the Hydros.

    Nope give me this automatic and I'll run circles around you guys that want to play with your stick.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,443 Senior Member
    Some of us don't like to just "get by".  Horsepower is like tools.....there is no such thing as "too much".  :D
    Having owned a turbocharged Cavalier that should have been around 290 WHP, there is such a thing as too much.  The 220 WHP when it was supercharged was far more usable.
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,443 Senior Member
    snake284 said:


    Nope give me this automatic and I'll run circles around you guys that want to play with your stick.
    What I do in my own home is my own business......
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    I think having Snake run circles around me while I am playing with my stick would kill the mood.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    Anything over 100 hp in a passenger car is a waste - as far as I'm concerned. And I can "get by" with far less than that.

    Drive a vintage Yugo, the rest of the planet wants a little more.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,637 Senior Member
    I actually owned a Yugo - it was just FINE. Little car could scoot!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,221 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    Anything over 100 hp in a passenger car is a waste - as far as I'm concerned. And I can "get by" with far less than that.
    I have 116hp in my 1990 Toyota pickup. It isn't sufficient. It's more like playing chess in the sense that I need to think several moves ahead of everyone else because it's slow at 3300 pounds. 

    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • GilaGila Posts: 1,828 Senior Member
    snake284 said:
    You might be surprised Gila, these newer automatic transs are tough to beat. Me, for what I like to do with HP I prefer a great automatic. And the dual clutch is a positive shift. Nobody can outshift a newer automatic. Back in the day the old 4 speed hydros would lock up and be almost as efficient as a manual. Those were the ones put in some GM cars from 1958 through 1964. The Turbo Hydramatics put the old four speeds out of business. But while being great transmissions, the didn't have it like the old 4 speeds. You get down on a 61 Bonneville or even a Cadillac you would smoke the back tires off. Turbo Hydramatics, Powerglides, Dynaflows Etc. didn't have the positive lockup like the Hydros.

    Nope give me this automatic and I'll run circles around you guys that want to play with your stick.
    I would not be surprised.  I own two Challengers, one with the 6 speed manual, and the other with the 8 speed automatic.  For driving on mountain roads I'll take the 6 speed over the auto every time.  I'm not going to bet my life on the paddle shifters on the steering wheel, because they do not always work as advertised.  I learned to drive on curvy roads back in the day in my 1964 Austin Healey 3000 Mk II...
    No good deed goes unpunished...
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,637 Senior Member
    Tugar said:
    zorba said:
    Anything over 100 hp in a passenger car is a waste - as far as I'm concerned. And I can "get by" with far less than that.
    I have 116hp in my 1990 Toyota pickup. It isn't sufficient. It's more like playing chess in the sense that I need to think several moves ahead of everyone else because it's slow at 3300 pounds. 

    PFFFT Try 68 HP in a 3400 lb car. 116 is plenty - UNLESS - you're hauling or towing, then you *may* need more. I'm talking passenger cars mainly. 150 works pretty good in a truck if it has the correct gearing for it - which none do these days.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,443 Senior Member
    Around here a 150hp full size truck would not be a safe option.  Merging onto  the highway with a 200 HP full size was interesting at times.  The 300 HP midsize has no issue though.  My 138 HP car has a similar issue depending on traffic and length/design of the on ramp and merge lane.  Sure, less power will work, but if I cant get up to the speed of traffic and merge by the end of the merge lane it isnt enough power.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,637 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #84
    Wow. I just never seem to have these "lack of power" problems. Indeed, with 120 HP and a slushbox, my old Mercedes blows away 80% of the cars at stop lights - because everybody else feathers their throttle. And I have zero problems merging or keeping up with traffic - actually, most of the idiots in front of me are trying to merge at 45 MPH, and I have to pop over 2 lanes and floor it to get around them!
    Similar to the old GMC with either 145 or 165 HP, can't remember which now (it fades, it fades). It would out accelerate just about anything - BECAUSE IT WAS GEARED RIGHT. Wimpy 3.08 rear ends need not apply.
    Now I'll grant you that an old 240D, weighing 3400 lbs and with a whopping 72 HP under the hood could get "exciting" at times - you had to know how to drive it. The rest of the world manages just fine, only in America do we feel the need for such huge engines/high HP.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,221 Senior Member
    mitdr774 said:
    Around here a 150hp full size truck would not be a safe option.  Merging onto  the highway with a 200 HP full size was interesting at times.  The 300 HP midsize has no issue though.  
    Out west with the drops and rises, you need to be able to pass safely. Passing a semi on some of the moutains and long runs is dicey at best. It's the same reason that if I ride motorcycles, I want one that can scoot as I can get out of trouble faster. 

    This Toyota in Florida would be a much different story as it's flat land. 
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,637 Senior Member
    About the only vehicle I've ever driven that I felt was underpowered was a late 90s or early oughts Ford Ranger 4 cyl. It had a 5 speed stick, and you had to shift down to 4th to climb a freeway overpass. I don't know what its problem was. Maybe it had a 2.50 rear end or something. No torque, no power, no acceleration - even an old 220D would blow it away.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    FWIW... 

    My 2005 Tundra has the following specs:

    Base engine size4.7 Liters
    Base engine typeV-8
    Horsepower282 Hp
    Horsepower rpm5,400
    Torque325 Lb-Ft.
    Torque rpm3,400

    It weighs in about 4900 lbs, and towed in the summer heat last year about 9000 lbs across country over the rockies ( in perfect weather I might add... )  2000 lbs over it's max specs.  ( Cat scale read 13,820 lbs, 6900 rear axle, 6920 front )   Good engine, good torque, good transmission, 95,000 miles at the time, or so.  And here we are 1 year later, no ill effects ( knock on wood!).

    I do not need 400 horsepower  in a truck, but I appreciate the torque. 

    Meanwhile back at the C-8 Corvette, horsepower and torque are nearly the same.  

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,637 Senior Member
    Yep. Torque rules!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
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