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Banned members, why and should they have been.

Diver43Diver43 Senior MemberPosts: 10,915 Senior Member
I have been on this forum a very long time. Some of us since it was a page on the Florida Sportsman Fishing Forum.  People come and go on these boards. Some scared away some banned. a few to me stand out and seeing it was part of one of my last phone conversations with Big Chief, it has been in my mind. One that stands out was Sam Waas. We still talk about Sam and he passed away 3 years ago and was banned by moderator before then. Sam was a scientist, technical writer, front runner in computer tech and a successful author of fiction. A darn successful person, that called this forum a piece of home. He was accused of pushing sales of his books, but reality is, anyone that showed an interest was emailed them for free. I read all of them for free, the last two before they were published. Sam even asked for the opinion of forum members while writing  I for one think he was done wrong by this forum. Another more recent ban and one that has all but left this once forum loved by many a shell of what it once was. Teach.  Mr. Jerry was here a very long time, friend to many, mentor to some.
Could he be outspoken?  Sure, did he take BS? Absolutely not.  Some even gave him grief on here, but yet he Hosted the Guns and Ammo SE Shoot every year. Jerry and his family welcomed everyone on to his land and into his home. Heated political discussions were left on the forum and everyone got along and had a great time. Then the moderators banned Teach. He was mad but also hurt. He did as much if not more than anyone on this forum to include the moderators.  Even after banning him from his forum family Teach still hosted the SE Shoot and said he will continue.  How is that for good people?  As the result of his banning, many and I mean a whole lot of members held up their middle finger and walked away. So many that a very interesting thread will get a few comments and fizzle.  
There have been several others banned.  Shush is one that comes to mind.  I was in Germany when that happened and still am unsure why.
Wambli left on his own, really doesn't talk about it much, but one does wonder...
Others threatened members and found themselves kicked out as it should be.
But while many on here post pictures and make comments about new purchases and finds, pretty much to show off a bit and share, they do not get banned   Sam showed off and bragged about his writings and gor banned.  Jerry comments about a Mod and gets banned, Shus . I dont know?
How many others?   Anybody remember them?  And why do the moderators not tell us why?
Who are the moderators accountable to?  I certainly hope more than their own ego, it certainly doesnt seem to be the forum family lately.
Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
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Replies

  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,713 Senior Member
    This should go well.  They couldn't play nice with others everyone that got banned you could see it coming.  As to the moderators They do a pretty good job but arguing with them and pushing the envelope is a recipe for disaster, been there and done that.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,915 Senior Member
    Sorry that this was so long. But remembering one of the last conversations I had with BC and his opinion that the moderators were ruining our forum got me thinking. Seeing Teach on his motorcycle with flag as part of the guard made me think more.  He came to show respect to a friend, veteran, and traveled that far because BC was a fellow forum member, of a forum that a small minority of the forum kicked out.
    Mods should be made to state why they ban someone, they are not dictators and if they think they are or act like one, maybe they should be banned.  Guns and ammo keeps this forum for the clicks. Without sponsors. Clicks go away, without members there are no clicks.  Keep banning it chasing away the people that get the most clicks, there is no need for mods and eventually the magazine itself.
    Talk about death by moderator from a different view point
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    Was BC one of the members that had been banned?
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    I've also been here a long time. 20 years or so. 

    I think you've forgotten the Marshall. He threatened to ban me once because I was the first person to post about the Fast and Furious sting. He said I was posting fake news before the term was coined. He said he wouldn't tolerate internet hoaxes on the forum. He passed right around that time so I cannot know if he was serious. 

    The current mods are very tolerant in my opinion. They could've zapped me on several occasions and didn't. They laid out the rules and I've stuck to them. Opinions are fine, no personal attacks on members, no threats, and no soliciting. The mods have always said "we let you hang yourself". I cannot recall anyone banned without at least one warning prior. 

    I've also seen members banned without explanation but I didn't always catch whatever thread was involved. Usually the thread itself is removed so no going back to reflect on the commentary. Leaving the thread for members to review might be a step towards accountability. I imagine we'd argue endlessly if the banning was justified or not. 

    I will include a general observation: Anyone who defends the left or a liberal policy takes more of a beating and it is generally allowed. 


    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • gatorgator Senior Member Posts: 1,746 Senior Member
    I kinda stayed away from here for awhile and when I came back there were several people missing, CPJ, Wambli, Buffy,Teach...
    I'm not sure what happened to Chris but most of his posts were very entertaining as well as Wambli's. I came back about the time that Teach got the hammer and did have a chance to read the last thread he participated in. 
    I have always liked this place and even though I've only met one other member in person I still consider most my friends.
    I hope this place will always exist and I will always feel at home and feel like I belong. 
    USMC 80-84
    -96 lbs
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,915 Senior Member
    Was BC one of the members that had been banned?
    NO
    He just got to sick to be on here much.  He did,t comment, but still read when he could
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,915 Senior Member
    gator said:
    I kinda stayed away from here for awhile and when I came back there were several people missing, CPJ, Wambli, Buffy,Teach...
    I'm not sure what happened to Chris but most of his posts were very entertaining as well as Wambli's. I came back about the time that Teach got the hammer and did have a chance to read the last thread he participated in. 
    I have always liked this place and even though I've only met one other member in person I still consider most my friends.
    I hope this place will always exist and I will always feel at home and feel like I belong. 
    Gator if you take a look at comments, there are only a handful of us remaining.
    There is hardly any one that even comments anymore, some people move on as life changes, lately most have gone elsewhere because of moderators actions and comments.  

    When I wrote the original post this morning I was in a dark mood. Now I wonder if the mods will take exception for me calling them out for what I think were some bad decisions
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    When I wrote the original post this morning I was in a dark mood. Now I wonder if the mods will take exception for me calling them out for what I think were some bad decisions
    Why would they do that? Anyone that has been banned has been warned very extensively-- you don't have to agree with the mods, but when they say to cut something out, you better cut it out whether you feel it is fair or not. That is how Jerry, Sam, and Mkk41 got themselves into trouble. They were warned multiple times to quit it, but they kept at it.

    Jerry is a great guy and my friend. I liked Sam and Mkk41 too, but damn... when they say cut it out, they mean it.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • gatorgator Senior Member Posts: 1,746 Senior Member
    I have noticed that there isn't as much activity on the forum as there had been. 
    USMC 80-84
    -96 lbs
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    I once asked Marshall Dan after a member was banned why that person was banned and not Sam. I made it clear I wasn't asking for Sam's banning, just looking for clarification.
    His reply was that knew he should ban Sam out of fairness, but he felt sorry for him. 
    As far as the marketing goes, he was posting links and info that got actual posters the ban hammer.
    Also, I remember more than a few folks getting put into timeout in the old days as a warning. Modern software doesn't allow that I suppose. But I remember all of the long-standing members who got banned having numerous warnings by mods in various threads.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #12
    gator said:
    I have noticed that there isn't as much activity on the forum as there had been. 
    Part of that is because forums are a form of social media on the way out. Usually due to attrition (the members tend to get older, with fewer young folks.)
    As far as this forum, I know myself and some others have stepped back because we're tired of the complaining, lack of humor by several, conspiracy theories, and the desire of some to turn this into a Republican echo chamber.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,915 Senior Member
    How about the mods get rid of where most problems come from. It was attempted once and many howled saying NO. My way of thinking has changed. This is a gun forum and things about guns should be the topic of discussion.  How about make the 2A forum about 2A issues only?
    Any opinions?  What do the moderators think?
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    This gets back to management theory, such as people are not bad, but behaviors can be.  You can only manage the behaviors here, and so like a corporation, progressive discipline has to be applied and applied fairly.  What is out of bounds to one person might not be to another, and so it is also subjective. 

    Plain and simple, I miss Jerry.  I do not know enough about his behavior here that got him banned, but I know a good person when I see them and deal with them.  Jerry and Mary have always been first class to me.   

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    We went through this before... there are too many issues that affect 2A that aren't directly related to 2A. And then, all the crap that gets slung there starts getting posted in the Clubhouse and other forums.

    Don't like it? Don't go there. And whatever happens there, needs to stay there and not pollute the rest of the forum.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    This isn't stamp collecting. Firearms have always been a politically charged issue. Politics is a necessary evil for a gun forum. 
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    The constraining of the 2A board would have failed to induce civility into the clubhouse thread where one senior member stepped into his finality.

    It may be that many of the personal relationships that began here transcend the narrow margins avialable within this medium. Margins that can't be as accommodating as those individual relationships. 
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #18
    Where most members step over the line and get banned is in the Clubhouse. How about we close that down? No more electric cars and cell phones? Pitbulls? Motorcycles? Solar?

    While it is often frustrating for me at times, the people on 2A generally know the boundaries and typically try to stay within them. I see more knock down drag outs in the Clubhouse than anywhere else.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    In my view restrictions on the political and Second Amendment forum are just hiding symptoms of a bigger problem: some folks just don't want to abide by the rules and be civil.
    And also the members who have been mentioned as being banned weren't banned due to posts in politics. 
    Overkill is underrated.
  • N454casullN454casull Member Posts: 563 Senior Member
    I think we should let all the people who have been banned back and then let all the people who are complaining be mods. 
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,915 Senior Member
    I think we should let all the people who have been banned back and then let all the people who are complaining be mods. 
    Actually, while I think you meant this as a Smart A  comment. I for one think a few mods should take a break and remember they are not forum gods and give others a chance. A few say it in PM, even name the same ones. But are sure they will be banned if it is said in the open
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 885 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #22
    I like the current batch of mods.  Not brown nosing, it has just been worse than it is now.

    Getting rid of 2nd amendment forum is like asking the Government to censor what you watch on tv.  If one doesn’t like it, then don’t read it or participate.
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #23
    gator said:
    I kinda stayed away from here for awhile and when I came back there were several people missing, CPJ, Wambli, Buffy,Teach...
    I'm not sure what happened to Chris but most of his posts were very entertaining as well as Wambli's.
    Buffy is what is often called here a "libtard". He doesn't post here very much because he doesn't feel the need to get bashed for airing his views. Basically most people with a viewpoint that doesn't support what is now called "conservative" has been chased away by the Echo Chamber Tribe. When the mods try to tone things down and make this place welcome (like we used to) to people outside that group, they get accused of plotting and being PC. Buffy is only one of MANY people that have been alienated here and have stopped participating because of the bullying that goes on.

    CPJ got fed up and quit. GunNut... I mean... Wambli quit. They used to antagonize each other and through their mutual passive-aggressive behavior, both got fed up and quit at about the same time. Chris is like a brother to me and I really like Enzo-- just not as a moderator-- his confidence often came across as arrogance and when you are in a position of power like he was as a moderator, it had the unintentional effect of intimidating the members-- the mods have a lot harder job than many realize. It is a hard line to walk for them. Some things they do has unintentional consequences that they often do not realize. As a member? He was kickass! I have met him in person a couple of times, we have texted back and forth... I really like the guy.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • N454casullN454casull Member Posts: 563 Senior Member
    Wambli liked to flex on everyone. It got old. 

    I have a 13yr old son whom I have regular conversations with about “it’s not exactly what you said, it’s how you said it” I think many times here things are said that could be phrased differently. But in most cases aren’t because then the statement wouldn’t be as inflammatory and the person would get less attention.
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,690 Senior Member
    Also been here since around '02 and despite being an "ausländer" from South of the border, can't recall disrespect or mistreatment from anyone around here. In fact have personally meet 2 members with their families and they proved to be wonderful folks!

    Seems that in some situations some people take the "chip in the shoulder" more seriously than they should and things escalate to the point of getting out of control rather quickly.

    I remember the border patrol agent from Texas with a rotten big toe that was a blast: Outspoken, harsh and opinionated with a dark sense of humor that got him in troubles to the point of getting banned....too bad.

    Other members seem to have eventually faded away,  maybe in part due to some folks' attitudes, but can't recall too many bannings. 
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #26
    CaliFFL said:
    I've also been here a long time. 20 years or so. 

    I think you've forgotten the Marshall. He threatened to ban me once because I was the first person to post about the Fast and Furious sting. He said I was posting fake news before the term was coined. He said he wouldn't tolerate internet hoaxes on the forum. He passed right around that time so I cannot know if he was serious. 


    He was serious. I recall that he banned a few people for spreading lies and fake news.

    This summer marks 17 years that I have been here.

    Antonio-- Billy Chuck wasn't Border Patrol. He was a customs agent. He was banned for his racist slurs against Mexicans-- Dan was way more "PC" than our current moderators. And he watched CNN for his news.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    I've also been here a long time. 20 years or so. 

    I think you've forgotten the Marshall. He threatened to ban me once because I was the first person to post about the Fast and Furious sting. He said I was posting fake news before the term was coined. He said he wouldn't tolerate internet hoaxes on the forum. He passed right around that time so I cannot know if he was serious. 


    He was serious. I recall that he banned a few people for spreading lies and fake news.

    This summer marks 17 years that I have been here.

    Antonio-- Billy Chuck wasn't Border Patrol. He was a customs agent. He was banned for his racist slurs against Mexicans-- Dan was way more "PC" than our current moderators. And he watched CNN for his news.
    And that explains why he thought Fast & Furious was fake. ;)
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,152 Senior Member
    A lot of people have forgotten that Sam made an alter ego alias to post cover artwork of his novels to get more free advertising. 

    I hated to ban Sam. He was a really good guy, and one I really wish I had met before he passed. But he repeatedly broke one of our very few rules about advertising. 

    The only person that got Teach banned was Teach. He was repeatedly warned, and given a LOT more chances than anyone else has ever been given. He is another I hated to see go, I consider him a friend, and he did me some solid favors over the years. 

    A lot of the “hard” part of being a moderator here is having to make those kinds of calls. Having to ban people you consider friends, and you have to consider that part of the reason they push the line is because they are friends with the mods. 


    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,921 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:

    When I wrote the original post this morning I was in a dark mood. Now I wonder if the mods will take exception for me calling them out for what I think were some bad decisions
    If you really think any of the Mods are that shallow, you just haven't been paying attention...If you really think the Mods are on some kind of power trip or enjoy banning folks you are sadly mistaken...

    Very few bannings are ever undertaken without conversation between all the Moderators, mostly looking for a way NOT to ban someone...especially when it comes to long time members...

    Additionally, none of the bannings that you mentioned were a bolt out of the blue...those people were warned, repeatedly, publicly on the forum and privately about what was going to happen if they kept up what they were doing...

    It's pretty damned simple..play by the rules, treat others decently and we won't be put in a position to have to "moderate" anyone...

    So, may I assume that the next time the need for a new moderator arises, we have your permission to put your name at the top of the list to contact?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,740 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #30
    CaliFFL said:


    Antonio-- Billy Chuck wasn't Border Patrol. He was a customs agent. He was banned for his racist slurs against Mexicans-- Dan was way more "PC" than our current moderators. And he watched CNN for his news.
    And that explains why he thought Fast & Furious was fake. ;)
    A friend of mine, Vincent Cefalu, was one of the Customs agents who exposed F&F.  He got in trouble with the powers that be, won a lawsuit against them, and wrote a book about his experiences as an undercover agent.  Ratsnakes, which is currently on sale.  Before he went to Customs, Vince was a cop at Athens PD, where I worked.  It's got good reviews, and it's on my reading list.

    I have no idea or opinion on who got banned or why.  I didn't read all the thread that got Teach (I don't think) but do remember him getting warned.  I do remember Sam getting the axe, primarily for promoting his books by posting a picture of the cover.  He, too, was warned.  Both of these men were good guys who offered a lot of gun knowledge (well, Teach did, Sam offered entertainment.)   Teach sent me for free a lifetime supply of .222 ammo.  So yes, I was sorry to see him go.

    Being a Mod is a thankless job, and unpaid so far as I know.  I should have gotten banned not too long ago for a personal attack,  and if I had been a mod, I would have banned me. I apologized for my actions in a subsequent post.

    Since then, I've figured out that some categories I should avoid, so I now avoid them, and am just as happy.


    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,989 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #31
    While a great portion of our moderators lack(ed) leadership, interpersonal communication  skills, and the general concept of team dynamics..........the truth of the matter lies in the fact that.......act the fool and be treated as such. 

    Don’t be an ass. Pretty simple. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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