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Banned members, why and should they have been.

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  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,161 Senior Member

    Antonio-- Billy Chuck wasn't Border Patrol. He was a customs agent. He was banned for his racist slurs against Mexicans-- Dan was way more "PC" than our current moderators. And he watched CNN for his news.
    Mescans or Mezcans I think was his term. Never knew why that was racist? His wife was Mexican.

    When this newest forums change happened, the Mod Cave was readable for awhile. I had to go to work so I only got to speed read thru a few threads, but I saw some pretty derogatory things said about members. I thought there was going to be a blow up then but they must have shut it down before many realized the door was open.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    I read through pages and pages of threads when there was access to the “Mod Cave”. 

    I lost pretty much all respect for the mods save two from what I gleaned. 

    It is what is. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,914 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    Diver43 said:

    When I wrote the original post this morning I was in a dark mood. Now I wonder if the mods will take exception for me calling them out for what I think were some bad decisions
    If you really think any of the Mods are that shallow, you just haven't been paying attention...If you really think the Mods are on some kind of power trip or enjoy banning folks you are sadly mistaken...

    Very few bannings are ever undertaken without conversation between all the Moderators, mostly looking for a way NOT to ban someone...especially when it comes to long time members...

    Additionally, none of the bannings that you mentioned were a bolt out of the blue...those people were warned, repeatedly, publicly on the forum and privately about what was going to happen if they kept up what they were doing...

    It's pretty damned simple..play by the rules, treat others decently and we won't be put in a position to have to "moderate" anyone...

    So, may I assume that the next time the need for a new moderator arises, we have your permission to put your name at the top of the list 


    I have paid attention for a long time along with many others.  While paying attention it was evident some bannings were personal.  I did not know of this alter ego of Sam's. He did not need to do that, heck all anyone on here had to do was ask.  I read his books (not the first) when they were only manuscripts. Hand written notes on pages.

    As for putting me on the list to be a mod? Absolutely, I served as a moderator on a diving forum before an ear injury kept me on the surface. I was unable to dive anymore and recused myself when I admitted that my days underwater were over.  So the software is. We, but the basics I am sure remain the same.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,914 Senior Member
    Wambli liked to flex on everyone. It got old. 

    I have a 13yr old son whom I have regular conversations with about “it’s not exactly what you said, it’s how you said it” I think many times here things are said that could be phrased differently. But in most cases aren’t because then the statement wouldn’t be as inflammatory and the person would get less attention.
    Why didn't you call him out when he was still a member?
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,914 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio said:

    Antonio-- Billy Chuck wasn't Border Patrol. He was a customs agent. He was banned for his racist slurs against Mexicans-- Dan was way more "PC" than our current moderators. And he watched CNN for his news.
    Mescans or Mezcans I think was his term. Never knew why that was racist? His wife was Mexican.

    When this newest forums change happened, the Mod Cave was readable for awhile. I had to go to work so I only got to speed read thru a few threads, but I saw some pretty derogatory things said about members. I thought there was going to be a blow up then but they must have shut it down before many realized the door was open.
    You are right BillyChuck was far from racist. The wife and I enjoyed lunch with him and his wife once when visiting our son in Texas 

    I missed that open door to the mod cave, bet the reading was interesting
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • N454casullN454casull Member Posts: 563 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Wambli liked to flex on everyone. It got old. 

    I have a 13yr old son whom I have regular conversations with about “it’s not exactly what you said, it’s how you said it” I think many times here things are said that could be phrased differently. But in most cases aren’t because then the statement wouldn’t be as inflammatory and the person would get less attention.
    Why didn't you call him out when he was still a member?
    I did pretty clearly, I believe. But like I stated above it’s all in how it was said, maybe I was to subtle for you. But then again I wasn’t trying to be inflammatory so I could get attention. 
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,738 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Wambli liked to flex on everyone. It got old. 

    I have a 13yr old son whom I have regular conversations with about “it’s not exactly what you said, it’s how you said it” I think many times here things are said that could be phrased differently. But in most cases aren’t because then the statement wouldn’t be as inflammatory and the person would get less attention.
    Why didn't you call him out when he was still a member?
    I never saw a guy get banned for what I thought were personal reasons.  Maybe A lot goes over my head. Never saw Wambi flex on anyone.  Never had a moderator I dislike. I’m crotchety, old, and argumentative and no doubt some moderators probably didn’t like me. I’m not the most popular guy on the board, and I think I know why. I don’t think it’s worsening.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • N454casullN454casull Member Posts: 563 Senior Member
    Showing off your valuables in a non-humble way.


  • gatorgator Senior Member Posts: 1,746 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:

    It's pretty damned simple..play by the rules, treat others decently and we won't be put in a position to have to "moderate" anyone...


    Just like we learned in kindergarten 
    USMC 80-84
    -96 lbs
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,035 Senior Member
    Yep, the mod cave is a really happening place.  I just checked and since July of 2018 there have been exactly 24 threads created there. A member was the subject matter in 5 of them, and Teach accounted for 3 of them. Of the remaining two, one member was banned and the other is still here.

    Of course, I'm sure this will be construed that we spend an inordinate amount of time conspiring plots against innocent members.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,920 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Diver43 said:


    While paying attention it was evident some bannings were personal.  


    Please enlighten me as to who ,exactly ,was banned for personal reasons?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    Of the big names mentioned in this thread as to being banned, I recall them all being warned several times. 

    From the outside looking in, you watch and hope the recipient will pump the brakes. But, you know they won’t. It’s like you see them rising to the challenge of immortality only to find themselves lacking the ability to fly above reality. 

    Didn't like to see some of them go. But, when the line is drawn in front of you and you run across it yelling “Banzai”...........
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,958 Senior Member
    Never knew there was a Mod Cave, how does one access it ???

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,035 Senior Member
    jaywapti said:
    Never knew there was a Mod Cave, how does one access it ???

    JAY
    Become a moderator.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,988 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #46
    jaywapti said:
    Never knew there was a Mod Cave, how does one access it ???

    JAY
    Accept the Mark of the Beast. 


    Or wait for the techies to leave the door open by accident. 
    😁

    :imkiddingmodsimkidding:
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio said:
    Mescans or Mezcans I think was his term. Never knew why that was racist? His wife was Mexican.
    I can't remember the exact term that got him banned, but it wasn't that one. It was much harsher.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,958 Senior Member
    jaywapti said:
    Never knew there was a Mod Cave, how does one access it ???

    JAY
    Become a moderator.

    Mike
    That will never happen, I'm way to old, computer illiterate, way to opinionated that i try not to show here.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,258 Senior Member
    Zee said:

    Didn't like to see some of them go. But, when the line is drawn in front of you and you run across it yelling “Banzai”...........
    "Bushido is all very well in its way, but it is no match for a .30-06" - Jeff Cooper.

    I never really had issue with Sam plugging his books or perceived it as him doing anything excessive - I mean, hey, he way writing books he thought we might like to read. "Here it is.  Go buy it, or not"

    Now, when his publisher chose his cover art for him and put the silhouette of a Beretta 92 on the book, and he started a thread asking "what is this gun?". . . Come on buddy - you've been on this forum for how long, and seen all the same movies we've seen, and you're telling us you can't I.D. a 92F?  Pretty thinly veiled.  But ban worthy?  I had a hard time with that one.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,035 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #50
    New member trolls, spammers, and obviously anti-2A posters get immediately banned without benefit of prior warning.

    Established members get warned blatently publically, subtly publically, or via PM. And even that doesn't usually occur on the first (or even second) offense.

    After taking the trolls, spammers, and the like out of the equation, I figure I've banned around a half dozen "regular" members over the span of twice as many years. Do I wish it hadn't come to that? Absolutely.

    Given the same circumstances, would I do it again? Absolutely.

    Mike


    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    I never really had issue with Sam plugging his books or perceived it as him doing anything excessive - I mean, hey, he way writing books he thought we might like to read. "Here it is.  Go buy it, or not"
    I didn't think it was a big deal either and actually liked to read about the progress he was making with with his books but, when you are repeatedly told by the moderators to stop doing that, it is time to set your opinion of the matter aside and stop doing that-- no matter how right you may feel.

    I hated to see Sam go, but it was his own damn fault. I can't blame the mods for that at all.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,161 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio said:
    Mescans or Mezcans I think was his term. Never knew why that was racist? His wife was Mexican.
    I can't remember the exact term that got him banned, but it wasn't that one. It was much harsher.
    That is the one I saw him warned about...........
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,625 Senior Member
    I can't recall if Marshall Dan in boxed me or posted the statement " if you aren't getting moderated, your not posting enough". The times I have been moderated, the instructions were quite clear and drama free. I thought the '"timeouts", moderator imposed or self imposed, were quite helpful, BigChief did a self IIRC, came back online with a more positive attitude, I think it gets to be " too much family" around here and as such it is easier to get flared up than it would be with less familiar persons. There is a fair bit of trolling on here for ones amusement off and on and that is the cause of most of the consternation IMHO
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,035 Senior Member
    Well, concerning "advertising" from a mods viewpoint (and the very strict instructions we are given concerning same.....one of the few "hard and fast" instructions we are given)....

    None allowed....period. Obvious or oblique. Not even for charities. 

    In my early days of being a mod, Dan J was off on a hunting trip and Bullsi was gone on business for a few days. In the interim, someone posted a thread containing a link that allowed you to donate funds to a local Boy Scout troop.

    Upon Dan J's return, I received a rather irate PM from him asking why I hadn't deleted the thread, instead of allowing it to remain active for 3 days.

    Well, that pretty well summed it up for me. If you can't panhandle for even the Boy Scouts, nothing else gets a pass.

    Mike


    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,659 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    I never really had issue with Sam plugging his books or perceived it as him doing anything excessive - I mean, hey, he way writing books he thought we might like to read. "Here it is.  Go buy it, or not"
    I didn't think it was a big deal either and actually liked to read about the progress he was making with with his books but, when you are repeatedly told by the moderators to stop doing that, it is time to set your opinion of the matter aside and stop doing that-- no matter how right you may feel.

    I hated to see Sam go, but it was his own damn fault. I can't blame the mods for that at all.
    This.
    Bottom line, follow the rules or get out. I got warned about my references to a certain detested social media site - I completely disagreed with the premise then, and I disagree with it now - but I'm not in charge, don't want to be in charge, and it isn't my call. So I "knocked it off" as requested.
    Unlike many here, I'm no fan of Wambli - oil and water at the very least.
    WITH THAT SAID, I always thought he was completely fair and even handed as a moderator. It's also becoming increasingly apparent that he's probably back under a different alias. I'd still like to meet him IRL though.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Why didn't you call him out when he was still a member?
    That was another issue... if you did that and things didn't go his way, the thread would get deleted. It made it kind of pointless and caused quite a bit of resentment.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,914 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Why didn't you call him out when he was still a member?
    That was another issue... if you did that and things didn't go his way, the thread would get deleted. It made it kind of pointless and caused quite a bit of resentment.
    Isnt that pretty much how Shush got banned?  Had a disagreement with a mod, Mod gave him an ultimatum and Shush said do what you must and poof he was gone? All over a disagreement?
    I was overseas when that happened and never got to meet him as he got banned in the middle of exchanging info
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    I am not exactly sure what happened to Shush to be honest.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,659 Senior Member
    Again, I don't remember the details now, but Shush was over the line - WAAAAY over the line IMHO.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 3,962 Senior Member
    Zee said:


    ...
    It’s like you see them rising to the challenge of immortality only to find themselves lacking the ability to fly above reality. 

    (Reminds me of what Adam Savage says on Myth Busters, "I reject your reality and substitute my own!"
    But reality could care less about what you believe.)

    ...
    Didn't like to see some of them go. But, when the line is drawn in front of you and you run across it yelling “Banzai”...........
    "Where there is strife, there is pride,
        but wisdom is found in those who take advice."


    Not preachin' just sayin' -- some folks don't know when to quit. Sometimes, it is a pride thing... It can mess good people up.
    And it's not some new phenomenon, it has been going on for a long time.

    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    gator said:
    I have noticed that there isn't as much activity on the forum as there had been. 
    Part of that is because forums are a form of social media on the way out. Usually due to attrition (the members tend to get older, with fewer young folks.)
    As far as this forum, I know myself and some others have stepped back because we're tired of the complaining, lack of humor by several, conspiracy theories, and the desire of some to turn this into a Republican echo chamber.
    I don't think that forums are outdated or a dying entity.  There are several I belong to that are thriving, busier than ever.  But they have much less trouble with members then the mods think they have here and rarely ban people.  Forums much bigger then G&A.  I think This one could have more traffic if it had more sub folders.  It's been suggested many times that we have a reloading forum.  But no, what members say does not seem to matter.  When someone Google's reloading, G&A will be way Down the list of found URLs.  Perhaps they don't want the additional work more traffic would bring.  I bet the sponsors would like It.  As far as banning, why does have to be all or nothing.  Yes they warn people but a 60 day ban might open the offenders eyes a little more IMO.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
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