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Banned members, why and should they have been.

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  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,326 Senior Member
    I banned Shush over a particularly rough personal attack against both SigGirl and Axe, neither of whom grace the board anymore.

    Another shining example of regular members chasing off other members. It happens way more often than banning. By a huge margin.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 887 Senior Member
    The way SigGirl was treated from day one is an embarrassment.  I don’t know if people thought she was someone other than who she claimed to be, or just disliked the scatterbrained attitude of youth, but you don’t start someone off that way.  Teach did that stuff too.  People say Teach didn’t put up with BS.  Maybe that so called BS was a lack of knowledge that could be corrected rather than ridiculed.
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,326 Senior Member
    We don't do "time outs" for a reason. After a while a certain percentage of the board's population considers multiple time outs a badge of honor, and constantly push the envelope, resulting in more time outs, ad infinitum.

    Then there is the issue of "Why did this result in a banning instead of a time out?" and vise-versa.

    No....it's pretty simple. Act responsibly (not a hard concept to grasp) and both bannings and timeouts become a moot subject.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,331 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    Again, I don't remember the details now, but Shush was over the line - WAAAAY over the line IMHO.
    Yes, what I question, was he baited and pulled over?
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,016 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #66
    Diver43 said:
    zorba said:
    Again, I don't remember the details now, but Shush was over the line - WAAAAY over the line IMHO.
    Yes, what I question, was he baited and pulled over?
    For what purpose? I don't remember Shush/SigGal confrontation and how she was attacked, but I know some with superior knowledge of firearms (very few here) can try to assert their knowledge in a superior way that can sound demeaning.

    I belong to the S&W forum, which is FAR stronger moderated than this.  You got to play by their rules or you get first, a warning, and then lose points.  It's a good forum, like this one, but forbids bitching, whining, complaining, etc.  That will eventually get you banned, and by eventually, I mean rather quickly after a warning and you keep doing it.  I bitched about the lock hole in S&W and got a warning. Have seen a helluva lot of information both there and here.  The members of S&W seem to get a long  better and have a LOT of knowledge on Smiths.  I have not seen any criticism of moderators.

    On this forum. I think we should get back to showing pistols and rifles and make the forum work without the politics (and I don't mean the 2nd Amendment), it's easy.  Be nice and respectful to anyone who is not a fool, and stop looking for perceived faults in Commentators. 
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    zorba said:
    Again, I don't remember the details now, but Shush was over the line - WAAAAY over the line IMHO.
    Yes, what I question, was he baited and pulled over?
    If I remember correctly, I thought he must have been drunkDiver43 said:
    zorba said:
    Again, I don't remember the details now, but Shush was over the line - WAAAAY over the line IMHO.
    Yes, what I question, was he baited and pulled over?
    We don't do "time outs" for a reason. After a while a certain percentage of the board's population considers multiple time outs a badge of honor, and constantly push the envelope, resulting in more time outs, ad infinitum.

    Then there is the issue of "Why did this result in a banning instead of a time out?" and vise-versa.

    No....it's pretty simple. Act responsibly (not a hard concept to grasp) and both bannings and timeouts become a moot subject.

    Mike
    I didn't say infinite timeouts but one before permanent banning may be appropriate.  There was a guy a year or so ago that was let back in who was banned for treating violence on some members.  He got banned again.

    Acting responsibly is vague and subjective.  Ironically that subject was the straw that broke teaches back, calling out irresponsible crouch rocket drivers.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,326 Senior Member
    Diver,

    You seem to have quite a store of conspericies at you fingertips. Would you like to point out specifics rather than opinion generated generalities? 

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Accipiter said:
    The way SigGirl was treated from day one is an embarrassment.  I don’t know if people thought she was someone other than who she claimed to be, or just disliked the scatterbrained attitude of youth, but you don’t start someone off that way.  Teach did that stuff too.  People say Teach didn’t put up with BS.  Maybe that so called BS was a lack of knowledge that could be corrected rather than ridiculed.
    Yeah, I assumed SigGirl was some dude trolling until her dad spoke up. 
    However, I never her called her on it, like many others did. I figured if it was a troll, I’d sit back and enjoy the show. Same with many of the newbs who are full of it. 😁
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    Accipiter said:
    The way SigGirl was treated from day one is an embarrassment.  I don’t know if people thought she was someone other than who she claimed to be, or just disliked the scatterbrained attitude of youth, but you don’t start someone off that way.  Teach did that stuff too.  People say Teach didn’t put up with BS.  Maybe that so called BS was a lack of knowledge that could be corrected rather than ridiculed.
    Yeah, I assumed SigGirl was some dude trolling until her dad spoke up. 
    However, I never her called her on it, like many others did. I figured if it was a troll, I’d sit back and enjoy the show. Same with many of the newbs who are full of it. 😁
    Well she was posting bikini pics and flirting like crazy.  How often does that happen here?  A lot thought she was a troll.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 887 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    Accipiter said:
    The way SigGirl was treated from day one is an embarrassment.  I don’t know if people thought she was someone other than who she claimed to be, or just disliked the scatterbrained attitude of youth, but you don’t start someone off that way.  Teach did that stuff too.  People say Teach didn’t put up with BS.  Maybe that so called BS was a lack of knowledge that could be corrected rather than ridiculed.
    Yeah, I assumed SigGirl was some dude trolling until her dad spoke up. 
    However, I never her called her on it, like many others did. I figured if it was a troll, I’d sit back and enjoy the show. Same with many of the newbs who are full of it. 😁
    Pretty much this.  If someone is a troll let them hang themselves.  I believe there have been quite a few premature friendly fire incidents over the years.  Sometimes this board can be quite the elitist clique.
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,331 Senior Member
    SigGirl was very real. Balanced being a teacher, model, and gun enthusiast, which is an accomplishment in itself.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #73
    BAMAAK said:
    I don't think that forums are outdated or a dying entity.  There are several I belong to that are thriving, busier than ever.  But they have much less trouble with members then the mods think they have here and rarely ban people.  Forums much bigger then G&A.  I think This one could have more traffic if it had more sub folders.  It's been suggested many times that we have a reloading forum.  But no, what members say does not seem to matter.  When someone Google's reloading, G&A will be way Down the list of found URLs.  Perhaps they don't want the additional work more traffic would bring.  I bet the sponsors would like It.
    Enthusiast forums/bulletin boards are here to stay, but other newer forms of social media have taken a big bite out of it. The only place I am a forum member is here and at the American Distilling Institute-- and the only reason I am a member there is so I can access the hidden professional distiller threads as a lurker. I find myself lurking on various forums all the time. Before I went fishing in Alaska, I lurked on an Alaska fishing forum and got some outstanding information. Car problems? I will typically wind up on a Chevy forum. Pizza? There are pizza making forums where the members make pizza as a hobby and really get into some very obscurely detailed information that you will never find anywhere else. That is something platforms like Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram can't replicate.

    A huge problem we had here was the fact that we have had several versions of this forum over the years. This most recent one only has threads that go back to 2011. My 20,000 posts before that is content that should have been accessible and generating clicks (and revenue) for the forum owners, has disappeared. So basically 60-75% of the content created by firearm enthusiasts on this forum has disappeared which puts G&A at a severe disadvantage in the search results.

    More topics? Maybe a reloading forum but I do appreciate that we have a lean and streamlined range of topics to choose from. Some places I lurk on, it becomes overwhelming.

    Obviously, those issues are beyond the control of members and mods. What can we control? The content. We create the content here. As a lurker on other forums, I have found it to be a huge turn off to read the members going round and round-- posturing, bullying, and being overall jerks to each other. The moderators and members here have complete control of that.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,331 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #74
    Diver,

    You seem to have quite a store of conspericies at you fingertips. Would you like to point out specifics rather than opinion generated generalities? 

    Mike
    Why? So I can point fingers and find myself banned?  Looking back through the comments I am surprised by the lack of facts put out by you and other mods. For instance besides standing by his way of thinking, did Shush get banned?  Beside thinking and saying that people who ride crotch tickets irresponsibly in a colorful way are idiots and deserve what they get, not the people that slam on their brakes to avoid them and get rear ended. 

    If the threads were not delete . Just maybe moderators actions would not be questioned.  And the comments about the mod cave, I wish I had known. Then my suspicions and those said in PM might be answered .

    Can moderators read PMs?
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,047 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #75
    We don't do "time outs" for a reason. After a while a certain percentage of the board's population considers multiple time outs a badge of honor, and constantly push the envelope, resulting in more time outs, ad infinitum.

    Then there is the issue of "Why did this result in a banning instead of a time out?" and vise-versa.

    No....it's pretty simple. Act responsibly (not a hard concept to grasp) and both bannings and timeouts become a moot subject.

    Mike
    Ok, that makes sense. I will say I called out SigGirl on a claim she bought 1000's of pairs of underwear in a year, I don't recall the actual number, but some quick math got me close to 10K$ plus the storage of that quantity and the time to purchase it, I did not buy it, there was some piling on, my intent was not to have her leave. I don't know why I wasted my time commenting on it at all, no dog in that fight.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,114 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #76
    BAMAAK said:
    I don't think that forums are outdated or a dying entity.  There are several I belong to that are thriving, busier than ever.
    Agreed. The "forums are outdated" meme is generally couched in terms of facebook apologia. The only real place I've personally seen this particular sickness take root is in the Belly Dance community - every single other interest (of mine at least) has multiple forums that are thriving while there's only one Belly Dance forum left and its in ICU. OTOH, Belly Dance is cyclical - its in one of its periodic nadirs right now.
    And I'd never so insult any forum by referring to it as "social media", but I won't argue semantics.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #77
    Facebook has groups for everything.  No different than forums IMO except for the Facebook rules which suck, especially with respect to guns.

    We don't need to have 200 subject folders like the glock forum, but a few others would draw more traffic.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,114 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    zorba said:
    Again, I don't remember the details now, but Shush was over the line - WAAAAY over the line IMHO.
    Yes, what I question, was he baited and pulled over?
    NO!

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,498 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Why didn't you call him out when he was still a member?
    That was another issue... if you did that and things didn't go his way, the thread would get deleted. It made it kind of pointless and caused quite a bit of resentment.
    Or you got a IM from a moderator about you actions. No problem once you cleared it up, but the fact is you got reported by a moderator to the moderators for using the exact same language and manner.

    There is only one person responsible for getting banned since mods started warning people. That is the member.

    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #80
    BAMAAK said:
    Facebook has groups for everything.  No different than forums IMO except for the Facebook rules which suck, especially with respect to guns.
    The thing with Facebook (at least from my experience) is that there is no real good way to search them. If I want to pull up something that was discussed 5 years ago, it would be next to impossible. And the conversations in Facebook groups don't come up as results under search engines. Like this for example...


    If 10 years ago, some goober had an issue with his skid steer and I am having the same problem, there is a good chance I am going to find that information on an equipment forum via a search engine.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,534 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio said:
    Mescans or Mezcans I think was his term. Never knew why that was racist? His wife was Mexican.
    I can't remember the exact term that got him banned, but it wasn't that one. It was much harsher.
    I seem to remember a urinating match between him and Dan that began with Billy's musing that he decided Cubans weren't bad, unlike the Latinos from South and Central America.  That was the high point of the thread. Eventually Billy dared Dan to ban him

    Literally.  He said something to the effect of, "if you're so powerful,  ban me!" 
    Overkill is underrated.
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    We don't do "time outs" for a reason. After a while a certain percentage of the board's population considers multiple time outs a badge of honor, and constantly push the envelope, resulting in more time outs, ad infinitum.

    Mike

    I never got my badge.  I had one time out from Dan.

    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    I seem to remember a urinating match between him and Dan that began with Billy's musing that he decided Cubans weren't bad, unlike the Latinos from South and Central America.  That was the high point of the thread. Eventually Billy dared Dan to ban him

    Literally.  He said something to the effect of, "if you're so powerful,  ban me!" 
    You are right. I remember now.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 887 Senior Member
    Big Al1 said:
    The point is, think before you post!! I've written many replies and then deleted them because it just wasn't worth it to stir the pot!!
    This is a philosophy I have now adopted.  I have easily deleted twenty replies in the last month alone.  
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 2,429 Senior Member
    Big Al1 said:
    The point is, think before you post!! I've written many replies and then deleted them because it just wasn't worth it to stir the pot!!
    I tell my students to "think twice, post once"
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,222 Senior Member
    BAMAAK said:
    Diver43 said:
    zorba said:
    Again, I don't remember the details now, but Shush was over the line - WAAAAY over the line IMHO.
    Yes, what I question, was he baited and pulled over?
    If I remember correctly, I thought he must have been drunkDiver43 said:
    zorba said:
    Again, I don't remember the details now, but Shush was over the line - WAAAAY over the line IMHO.
    Yes, what I question, was he baited and pulled over?
    We don't do "time outs" for a reason. After a while a certain percentage of the board's population considers multiple time outs a badge of honor, and constantly push the envelope, resulting in more time outs, ad infinitum.

    Then there is the issue of "Why did this result in a banning instead of a time out?" and vise-versa.

    No....it's pretty simple. Act responsibly (not a hard concept to grasp) and both bannings and timeouts become a moot subject.

    Mike
    I didn't say infinite timeouts but one before permanent banning may be appropriate.  There was a guy a year or so ago that was let back in who was banned for treating violence on some members.  He got banned again.

    Acting responsibly is vague and subjective.  Ironically that subject was the straw that broke teaches back, calling out irresponsible crouch rocket drivers.
    That was Ghostsniper....who was originally banned for threatening another member..
    After a period of time, he assured us he was sorry and had since got his poop in a group..and with some trepedation, he was allowed back...he lasted about a week...
    Then he sneaked back in as Rocketman .and it was a member who pointed out that they were one and the same based on photos he had posted on Facebook and here...as soon as this was confirmed...he was banned again
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,326 Senior Member
    Hey, Jay......

    Know how sometimes there's a thread that simply by the title you know you shouldn't open, but do anyway?

    I'm filled with regret.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 1,057 Senior Member
    It’s a small world to have awoken today and browsed the forum and found this topic. I’m mostly addressing the topic of the members that either left or don’t participate anymore. For one, if you “left” but still come here and lurk (whether as a member or not) you haven’t actually left and you’re kidding yourself. As for me, I saw that someone mentioned this place is a clique and that is more true than they know (coming from a newer guy). I really don’t even come here anymore because at times I can’t believe  how childish some people are. Some of y’all won’t even associate with me because of some of my opinions that you don’t agree with. Not sure how that changes the fact that I might post something funny but folks can be so passive aggressive that they don’t want to muse me, like a little kid. Then there’s the whole trial by fire thing which I don’t understand at all. I’ve been a member of plenty of forums and have never had to basically “prove myself “ to anyone. Not sure where that comes from here. Some of y’all want to run off the people that don’t fit into your Wolfpack and this place will remain an echo chamber. I’ve never understood why people can’t respect others that don’t hold the same opinions or beliefs. The whole “I don’t like you so I won’t even respond, like, acknowledge you or your post” is childish at best.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,849 Senior Member
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 887 Senior Member
    Where where did you find the old popcorn smiley?
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
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