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I’m a little stumped on this one.

GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,252 Senior Member
Went to my favorite LGS today to pick up a Gunbroker buy and while I was there I took a closer look at a pre-64 Model 70 in .300 Weatherby. It started life as a .300 Magnum but like many guns of that era it was re-chambered professionally and barrel is correctly stamped with the chambering.

I’m mildly interested in the gun and the price is right BUT there is a ring of some sort about 6” down from the muzzle that almost looks like 1/4” of bore was pitted from rust all the way around and cleaned out.  No signs of a barrel bulge or damage externally and the rest of the rifling is good and sharp.  I’m baffled as to what this could be and I have no access to a bore scope.  

Any theories?  Never seen this before.
Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

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Replies

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,518 Senior Member
    Are you after the rifle or the chambering?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    Wild guess... freebore? But 6" is quite a bit of freebore.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,518 Senior Member
    Wild guess... freebore? But 6" is quite a bit of freebore.
    Freebore is in front of the chamber. Not 6” down from the muzzle as stated. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    Doh! My bad.

    Ok. I am stumped too. I am not sure if I would want to use that barrel then. 300 Weatherby doesn't really impress me anyway. And the fact that he doesn't reload and what that freaking factory Weatherby ammo costs. Yikes!
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,252 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Are you after the rifle or the chambering?
    Really the rifle mostly.  If they give me a decent deal it’ll probably be a rebarrel but I’ll try to find an original pre-64 barrel in good shape first.  I have lost my love for the 30 caliber magnums though I’d love to have a .300 H&H for the cool factor.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,252 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Wild guess... freebore? But 6" is quite a bit of freebore.
    Freebore is in front of the chamber. Not 6” down from the muzzle as stated. 
    Yep what Zee said.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,518 Senior Member
    .
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,252 Senior Member
    Doh! My bad.

    Ok. I am stumped too. I am not sure if I would want to use that barrel then. 300 Weatherby doesn't really impress me anyway. And the fact that he doesn't reload and what that freaking factory Weatherby ammo costs. Yikes!
    Right on all counts.  This might end up as a .338 WinMag.  But I’m still completely stumped as to what this ring could be and it’s bugging me.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,518 Senior Member
    Without pics or seeing it, I’ve no clue. 

    I wouldn’t buy it unless wiling to sacrifice the barrel for the action. 

    And then it better be a good price and the stock in good shape. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,252 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Without pics or seeing it, I’ve no clue. 

    I wouldn’t buy it unless wiling to sacrifice the barrel for the action. 

    And then it better be a good price and the stock in good shape. 
    I’m going to go take a look at it again next week.  Maybe I can get a picture.  The stock is in great shape and it even comes with a second aftermarket stock with nice wood.  But I agree that the barrel has to go.  They will adjust the price, I just have to see if cost effective.  I’m mostly trying to see if anyone has bumped into this one before cause I for sure have not.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,288 Senior Member
    Have no idea why anyone would do that to a barrel. DO KNOW if I bought that rifle that it would have to be priced for action/stock only, not a complete rifle. I wouldn't waste money putting good ammo down that barrel. That removed rifling would not be conducive to good accuracy, IMHO.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,252 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    Have no idea why anyone would do that to a barrel. DO KNOW if I bought that rifle that it would have to be priced for action/stock only, not a complete rifle. I wouldn't waste money putting good ammo down that barrel. That removed rifling would not be conducive to good accuracy, IMHO.
    Agreed.  It’s a bizarre blemish for sure.  I’ve been scratching my head all afternoon thinking of theories but nothing fits.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #14
    Doh! My bad.

    Ok. I am stumped too. I am not sure if I would want to use that barrel then. 300 Weatherby doesn't really impress me anyway. And the fact that he doesn't reload and what that freaking factory Weatherby ammo costs. Yikes!
    If you don't reload anything Weatherby Mag. is a rich man's proposition. I reload and love my .300 WBY.

    And I might shy away from a barrel like that. Maybe the LGS would let you shoot it and see how it grouped. One thing to remember, a .300 WBY Mag. can push a 200 grain bullet out the barrel at over 3000 FPS. I would say if it will shoot good it might be worth buying. What kind of price you looking at? Remember you're getting a good pre 64 action in the deal. If it shoots and you can get it for $400-$600 it might be a good deal.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    No. He NEEDS a .338 Win mag!
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 6,762 Senior Member
    A theory.....

    Scooter's first .204 Ruger barrel went south at around the 1800 round mark. He had one of our toolmakers section the barrel lengthwise, and found an area such as you describe about 18" in front of the throat, except it only went about a third of the way around the circumference. Their opinion was that there was a factory blemish in the barrel that allowed hot gasses to escape around the bullet which proceeded to erode an already weak spot.

    He was a stickler for accuracy, and when he started getting 3/4" groups, he decided to rebarrel. In a .300 WBY Mag, the accuracy degradation may have been slight enough that it didn't matter for its intended usage and it was continued to be fired until the erosion went full circle.

    But who knows?

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,252 Senior Member
    snake284 said:
    Doh! My bad.

    Ok. I am stumped too. I am not sure if I would want to use that barrel then. 300 Weatherby doesn't really impress me anyway. And the fact that he doesn't reload and what that freaking factory Weatherby ammo costs. Yikes!
    If you don't reload anything Weatherby Mag. is a rich man's proposition. I reload and love my .300 WBY.

    And I might shy away from a barrel like that. Maybe the LGS would let you shoot it and see how it grouped. One thing to remember, a .300 WBY Mag. can push a 200 grain bullet out the barrel at over 3000 FPS. I would say if it will shoot good it might be worth buying. What kind of price you looking at? Remember you're getting a good pre 64 action in the deal. If it shoots and you can get it for $400-$600 it might be a good deal.
    That’s kind’a what I’m thinking.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,252 Senior Member
    No. He NEEDS a .338 Win mag!
    Yeah what he said...
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,518 Senior Member
    No. He NEEDS a .338 Win mag!
    He HAD one. 😒
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,252 Senior Member
    A theory.....

    Scooter's first .204 Ruger barrel went south at around the 1800 round mark. He had one of our toolmakers section the barrel lengthwise, and found an area such as you describe about 18" in front of the throat, except it only went about a third of the way around the circumference. Their opinion was that there was a factory blemish in the barrel that allowed hot gasses to escape around the bullet which proceeded to erode an already weak spot.

    He was a stickler for accuracy, and when he started getting 3/4" groups, he decided to rebarrel. In a .300 WBY Mag, the accuracy degradation may have been slight enough that it didn't matter for its intended usage and it was continued to be fired until the erosion went full circle.

    But who knows?

    Mike
    That was s just about the only thing I’ve heard that makes sense.  He’ll I might be able to sleep tonight thanks to you 😁
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,756 Senior Member
    I tend to agree with Mike...I have seen similar erosion in some of the early .264 Win. Mags...that had a reputation as being " barrel burners". The first factory loads were a 120 grain bullet running about 4K.After the ammo makers started slowing them down, the problem dissipated some, but they were still rough on barrels...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,252 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    I tend to agree with Mike...I have seen similar erosion in some of the early .264 Win. Mags...that had a reputation as being " barrel burners". The first factory loads were a 120 grain bullet running about 4K.After the ammo makers started slowing them down, the problem dissipated some, but they were still rough on barrels...
    It’s starting to make sense.  This gun was never designed to be a .300 Weatherby so any flaws in the rifling would have been accentuated  swiftly.  
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    There's a possibility that the rifle was fired with debris in the barrel. Many years ago, my brother had borrowed my dad's model 70 in 30-06 to go hunting with me when I lived in Madison Wisconsin and while we were walking, he tripped and jabbed the barrel into the ground. We saw the end of the barrel was packed with mud and before I could stop him he pointed the gun in the air and fired a round to clear the dirt out. It didn't bulge the barrel but it left a ring about 3/4" back from the muzzle where the bullet squeezed past the debris. 
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Went to my favorite LGS today to pick up a Gunbroker buy and while I was there I took a closer look at a pre-64 Model 70 in .300 Weatherby. It started life as a .300 Magnum but like many guns of that era it was re-chambered professionally and barrel is correctly stamped with the chambering.

    I’m mildly interested in the gun and the price is right BUT there is a ring of some sort about 6” down from the muzzle that almost looks like 1/4” of bore was pitted from rust all the way around and cleaned out.  No signs of a barrel bulge or damage externally and the rest of the rifling is good and sharp.  I’m baffled as to what this could be and I have no access to a bore scope.  

    Any theories?  Never seen this before.
    What i'm wondering, why would one little spot in the barrel be rusted and the rest clean? that doesn't make sense. I would think it might be something got stuck there. Maybe the barrel wasn't true in the first place. However, like I mentioned, if it's accurate it might be a good deal.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,535 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Jayhawker said:
    I tend to agree with Mike...I have seen similar erosion in some of the early .264 Win. Mags...that had a reputation as being " barrel burners". The first factory loads were a 120 grain bullet running about 4K.After the ammo makers started slowing them down, the problem dissipated some, but they were still rough on barrels...
    It’s starting to make sense.  This gun was never designed to be a .300 Weatherby so any flaws in the rifling would have been accentuated  swiftly.  
    Not sure what they'd have done to the barrel to "design it" for 300 WBY.  Weatherby surely made plenty in that caliber with medium and even light hunting contours.

    Now could the previous owner have been hot-rodding that gun with some smoking handloads? Absolutely..
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • rberglofrberglof Senior Member Posts: 2,634 Senior Member
    I have an 8mm Mauser that has a spot maybe 6 or 8 inches from the muzzle that is about 1/4 inch and about half way around the barrel (not uniform). The rifle is reasonably accurate for an abused Mauser, have only fired military rounds through it. Was able to hit a small bottle dead center with it at about 100 yards.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,535 Senior Member
    Did the barrel manufacturer burn up a drill at that point, backed it out, re-tooled and kept drilling? 

    Sounds plausible as well.

    There could be a barely discernible bulge there from shooting the gun with an obstruction.  Even if it's only a couple of thousandths it would allow hot gasses to dwell there when fired.

    Many possible scenarios it seems like.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,252 Senior Member
    There's a possibility that the rifle was fired with debris in the barrel. Many years ago, my brother had borrowed my dad's model 70 in 30-06 to go hunting with me when I lived in Madison Wisconsin and while we were walking, he tripped and jabbed the barrel into the ground. We saw the end of the barrel was packed with mud and before I could stop him he pointed the gun in the air and fired a round to clear the dirt out. It didn't bulge the barrel but it left a ring about 3/4" back from the muzzle where the bullet squeezed past the debris. 
    Interesting theory.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,252 Senior Member
    JasonMPD said:
    GunNut said:
    Jayhawker said:
    I tend to agree with Mike...I have seen similar erosion in some of the early .264 Win. Mags...that had a reputation as being " barrel burners". The first factory loads were a 120 grain bullet running about 4K.After the ammo makers started slowing them down, the problem dissipated some, but they were still rough on barrels...
    It’s starting to make sense.  This gun was never designed to be a .300 Weatherby so any flaws in the rifling would have been accentuated  swiftly.  
    Not sure what they'd have done to the barrel to "design it" for 300 WBY.  Weatherby surely made plenty in that caliber with medium and even light hunting contours.

    Now could the previous owner have been hot-rodding that gun with some smoking handloads? Absolutely..
    Good points.  I was thinking the barrel contour might be wrong.  The barrel steel too soft.  But the hot rod loads make more sense specially in an old gun that was alive before all the science we have today.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,252 Senior Member
    Thanks guys for humoring my theorizing.  I’ll be checking in next week on the gun to talk financials with the LGS.  He didn’t know about the bore and I trust him on that.  They are really nice folks that may even be a hair too trusting in their business dealings and I love them for that.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 7,756 Senior Member
    Don't know what part of the country your in, but I've seen rifles that had insect nests, like a mud dauber, in a section of the barrel. That could cause the erosion you see. 
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