When to do what

rbsivley

You're armed and standing line at the gas station A guy a couple people ahead of you a gun, points it at the cashier and demands money.  What do you do at this point? 
Then he turn his gun on the people in the store. What do you do now? Next he proceeds to herd the customers to the back of the store. What do you next?
I've thought of this using these scenarios. An additional thought is most of the time I have my 3 yr old great grand daughter with me. I'm thinking as soon as he produces a weapon I'm ready for him to turn on me. I'm not going to kill anyone for a few hundred bucks from the register. But, when he turns that changes my plan. 

earlyagain

I'd think maybe wrongly a desperado wanting a quick score would pick a deserted gas station.

Drawing my gun from concealment in a congested crowd on someone with gun in hand has law suits & collateral damage written across it like a banner.

I'd try for position. Either to escape and call for help. Or to shoot from an angle blind to the gunman if possible. Seems like close up, hand to hand distance would be the only option. Otherwise no draw, and wait for opportunity.

jaywapti

I'm sure I'm not the only one that has played this scenario over in my mind, normally I'm pretty cool and dont get rattled, but there are so many things to consider in a split second, how many people would be in my line of fire, who is behind me, maybe another gunman, would i risk a wild shot or a pass thru hitting someone else, what if I shot and didnt kill or incapacitate him how many others would be hurt, what if he just takes the money and runs, if I shoot him in the back after the threat is gone, could I be tried for murder, in all honesty I cant say until it happens to me and I hope it never does.

JAY

rbsivley

jaywapti said:

I'm sure I'm not the only one that has played this scenario over in my mind, normally I'm pretty cool and dont get rattled, but there are so many things to consider in a split second, how many people would be in my line of fire, who is behind me, maybe another gunman, would i risk a wild shot or a pass thru hitting someone else, what if I shot and didnt kill or incapacitate him how many others would be hurt, what if he just takes the money and runs, if I shoot him in the back after the threat is gone, could I be tried for murder, in all honesty I cant say until it happens to me and I hope it never does.

JAY

Yes there was a woman shot a guy running out the door with 2 bottles of wine and they busted her.

Bigslug

At the point they're herding customers to more secure locations in the building, I'd consider them bought and paid for.  That's the start of lengthy hostage standoff scenarios typically ended with tear gas, SWAT teams, and LOTS of bullets.  The perp is going to jail or the morgue at that point by SOMEONE'S hand - your's might make for the least messy outcome.

The lead up to that (or not) is a lot more variable.  A major goal would be to seek cover and positions of advantage.  Another consideration is getting shot in the back by the back-up man who was in the store posing as another customer, so don't 100% trust your fellow shoppers as "friendlies" (could be another legal CCW too).

Which brings us to "what am I up against"?  An malnourished urban idiot holding his chrome-plated Lorcin sideways presents one set of choices; a likely down-on-his-luck military vet with a well worn service pistol presents others.

And here's a part that sucks - one obvious cue to engage is the clerk getting shot.  Up to that point it's a question of how much trouble you're willing to invite for the sake of someone else's money in a cash register.  At that point the law and jury sympathies are more likely to be on your side, but now you get to live with having been in the position of Peter Parker having not used his Spiderman powers and Uncle Ben is dead as a result.

Easy answers?  Not too many.

Gene L

Shoot the bastard, if you've got a clear shot.  I am not there, I'm responding based on MY interpretation....which may not be real.  I was too long a cop to walk away.

Spk

rbsivley said:

You're armed and standing line at the gas station A guy a couple people ahead of you a gun, points it at the cashier and demands money.  What do you do at this point?

(What state are we in? Different states, different rules) At this point, if he hasn't opened fire on the clerk -- let it play out and look for opportunities -- he might just want the money.

Be a good witness, be a good observer.

Then he turn his gun on the people in the store. What do you do now?

(Again, does he shoot anyone? Fires off a shot in the air or just waves the gun around to intimidate? Keep looking for those opportunities. It matters.)

Next he proceeds to herd the customers to the back of the store. What do you next?

Now it's crunch time! If you plan on doing anything. Now would be a good time. Again, it comes back to what your perception of the situation is. Is this guy just an intimidator and simply wants you guys out of the way or does he have a sense about him that makes the hair on your neck stand up. Terrorist, maybe? Now's not the time to be PC sensitive. Just look at the world we live in.

Also, count on the actual scenario to be some variant of any situation you can think up. It won't be scripted and You'll have to live with whatever decision you make.

... I'm not going to kill anyone for a few hundred bucks from the register. But, when he turns that changes my plan. 

It's good to think about these things ahead of time. Gets your head in the right place. Hopefully, it never happens but if it does you'll be less likely to look like a "deer in the headlights!"

Jmho

rbsivley

I was thinking of this again yesterday as I was driving. Not trying to run it to ground but I thought what a great responsibility I have as an armed citizen. I've carried for years be it as a citizen or a Soldier. Carrying a firearm is not to taken frivolously, but very seriously. I'm not saying any of you are not responsible gun owners, I was just pondering the thought. At some point we may stand between the good and the evil and should be prepared to do so. It is a terrible feeling to have someone trying to kill you and you not be able to fight back. If you've ever experienced an indirect fire attack, such as mortars and rockets you know the feeling. I vowed never again. 
I apologize for the rambling.  

JasonMPD

knitepoet said:

Without actually being in that situation, I can't say what I would do, with any certainty.

Best mindset, honestly. 

The best laid plan never survives first contact with the enemy.  Plans get dicey and require a precognition of the moving parts.

A strategy is better and have that strategy mapped out and stick the hell to it.

If you are alone, go to work. 

If you have kids, proceed carefully,  they need daddy.

If you have a kid WITH you, do nothing that isn't directly and unequivocally focused on getting them OUT.

HAWKEN

Gene L said:

Shoot the bastard, if you've got a clear shot.  I am not there, I'm responding based on MY interpretation....which may not be real.  I was too long a cop to walk away.

I'm with Gene on this one.  36 years behind the badge, (I still have the one  they gave me when I retired), would not allow me to walk away.  If you don't stop him now what will he do next time?  robin