Home Main Category Personal Defense

.357 Mag - 152gr HBWC

2»

Replies

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,048 Senior Member
    Agreed!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Colorado SpringsPosts: 7,820 Senior Member
    I've always been an expansion over penetration guy. Penetration to the vitals is important, but a saucer sized crater upon impact  with a rib cage will make pretty much any walking critter take notice , usually allowing a follow up shot, whereas a pretzel-sized punch-thru may not....Even raccoons punched solidly through the ribs with a 22LR solid often pay it no mind and continue their nefarious deeds as if nothing happened. I've never experienced that with a reliably expanding bullet.

    You can have both, of course, (Partitions, NBT's, AccuBond, etc.), but for my dollar.....expansion. I love NBT's. Best of both worlds.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,048 Senior Member
    What he said. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,048 Senior Member
    edited October 2019 #35
    The only time I am “all about penetration” is on the really big stuff. 

    ie: dangerous game (elephant, buffalo, rhino)

    Basically, stuff with a lot of real estate between the edge and the juicy middle........and then the other edge. 

    And then I want a a lot of solids. Or at least alternating solid/expand/solid/expand. 

    Otherwise, I want speed and expansion. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,048 Senior Member
    Which, come to think of it, I could do with my brides gun. 

    The reduced HP and then a WC. Alternate them in the cylinder. 

    Just a thought. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    The time I wished for expansion was when I grabbed the wrong magazine mistakenly. 5.56 ball failed to dispatch a rock chuck with repeated shots. Plenty of penetration there. At a different rock chuck instance, a 357mag 110gr sjhp caused instant experation.

    I carried two 357mag revolvers on my last back country outing. Neither was loaded with that 110gr hp load. Wrong ammo for my intentions at that time IMO.

    I have carried revolvers with alternating loads in the cylinder. An advantage of distinction for that platform.

    Another thing that may be worth considering. Ive noted that a soft lead 50 cal 170gr ball at 1200fps smacks a steel disc so hard as to leave a permanent crater. A 44 caliber bullet of harder alloy weighing 240grs at the same speed impacts the steel much less dramatically with only a splash mark on the steel. There's something going on with the soft lead projectile that Im not sure I understand. But it is for sure significant.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,692 Senior Member
    Siiiiigh. . .

    They're cute at that age.  ;)
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,048 Senior Member
    Huh?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,772 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    After the success with the Hollow Base Wadcutters in my .44 Spl, I decided to order some 152gr HBWC from Matt’s Bullets. 



    My wife currently uses my GP-100 and 180gr WFN hardcast bullets with Trail Boss as her Bedside Gun. I call them Mouse Fart loads. But, with the weight, they penetrate well. 

    Ever looking for the next best thing, I decided to try these new bullets in a reduced load and launch them from my S&W 340 M&P. Another HD combination for her or maybe a travel gun. 

    I had to seat them rather deep to fit the cylinder. 





    Using Hodgdon’s directions for Trail Boss loads, I measured the case capacity from a loaded bullet and found 4.2gr Trail Boss filled the case to the base of the bullet. Ironically, this is their listed Max Load for Trail Boss and a 158gr cast bullet. 

    That cavity at the end of the round is quite daunting. 



    Being a DAO Snub Nosed Revolver, I set up an unorthodox shooting bench on some railroad ties and leaned a steel target against a mesquite tree 10 yards away. It was time to test accuracy. 



    Recoil was minimal and this too can qualify as a Mouse Fart Load. Even in this diminutive lightweight gun. 

    Velocity clocked 745 fps from the tiny barrel which was considerably more than I anticipated. Honestly, I was expecting 450-500 fps. I was surprised!

    Set up some water jugs and let fly from 5 yards away. 



    The bullet penetrated 2 jugs. Breaking the back of the second but not exiting, the bullet came to rest at the bottom. 







    With 100% weight retention and only 745 fps from a snub nose.........that ain’t bad for a Mouse Fart Load!!!

    A better shooter could probably squeak out a better group from a DAO, but I’m kinda happy with the group for a reduced HD load. 



    Me is happy. 

    I have some for my .45 Colt that I need to load and test next. 

    These bullets have grown on me.........
    Just reread your first post and realized that you're using your S&W 340! Dang, 745 fps from your 1.875 inch snubby. I'd really like to see what you get from the GP100 with a 4.2 inch barrel. I bet you'll see both the penetration and expansion. I'm guessing at least three jugs with impressive expansion. Also, 13.8 oz M&P versus 40 oz for the GP. I don't see recoil as a problem. I wanna see some water jugs exploding with the GP! 😁
    You might just have something here.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,692 Senior Member
    edited October 2019 #41
    Zee said:
    Huh?
    It's just my penetration-over-expansion / expansion-meh Kool Aid talking.  Carry on buddy.  :)

    (Probably an OK load out of a 4" or longer gun.  I'd want a third jug out of it)
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,048 Senior Member
    Spk said:

    Just reread your first post and realized that you're using your S&W 340! Dang, 745 fps from your 1.875 inch snubby. I'd really like to see what you get from the GP100 with a 4.2 inch barrel. I bet you'll see both the penetration and expansion. I'm guessing at least three jugs with impressive expansion. Also, 13.8 oz M&P versus 40 oz for the GP. I don't see recoil as a problem. I wanna see some water jugs exploding with the GP! 😁
    You might just have something here.
    This is true. I’ll have to try them in the Ruger. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    Be great to have a low recoil load that gets 4 jugs.🐒
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,048 Senior Member
    Be great to have a low recoil load that gets 4 jugs.🐒
    I have the test loads made. Gonna get accuracy, velocity, and penetration out of the GP100 this afternoon. 

    It should make 3 jugs. I doubt 4. But, we will find out. 

    The 180gr WFN Mouse Fart loads I have in that gun now would probably make 4 jugs. Never toasted them, though. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Living in a van, down by the river.Posts: 14,031 Senior Member
    So, you basically made a cast lead version of one of Federal's Hydro Shock .38 Special +P loadings.  Differences are more weight, and it's loaded in .357 cases vs. a +P .38.

    https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2017/6/23/first-look-federal-premium-hst-micro-38-special-plusp-ammo/

    There's some gel testing in this article.  They got a little more velocity out of the Federal from a Smith revolver (about 40 fps) but expansion was more iffy in the Federal, probably due to the jacketed bullet.
    https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/tested-federal-hst-38-special-p/

    Interesting.  I don't know how the jugs correspond to ballistic gel, but still interesting.  
    I'm just here for snark.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,048 Senior Member
    152gr HBWC (reversed)
    4.2gr TB
    Ruger GP-100 4.2”
    Muzzle Velocity: 845 fps
    Penetrated 2 Jugs @ 5 yrds (broke back of second, dented 3rd)



    Accuracy @ 10yrds was better than the Smith, but I also shot it in SA mode, so it’s not a fair comparison. 

    Noticeably more expansion and hydraulic dissipation than at the 745 fps of the Smith.  





    Recoil is almost nonexistent or at least negligible. I really like this round for the bride. 

    The bullet still only penetrated 2 jugs from the 4” barrel. But, it did it with more........panache. 





    And is more comparable to the Federal load Bream linked to. 



    I also tested the current load in this revolver. 

    180gr WFN
    Ruger GP-100 4.2” barrel
    Muzzle Velociry: 760 fps
    Energizer Bunnied it’s way through 4 jugs (all I had left and kept going, and going.....)



    Penetration was excellent, obviously.  Hydraulic dissipation was less, as expected.



     

    The bullet passed through and the first and last jug just kinda fell off the stand. 

    Accuracy with both loads was excellent. But hey, it was only 10 yards. I did that just to keep the distances the same as the snub nosed Smith. 



    I like both these loads and think they each each have their place. Maybe a summer/winter use?  I don’t know. But it’s fun and I like experimenting. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    Now to get back to drinking the contents of new jugs.

    Gulp gulp gulp gulp gulp....🍶
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,692 Senior Member
    Hmmm. . .that 152 grainer is likely some pretty soft stuff.  It MAY still squish decently going solid end first. That's a 180gr .38-40 at about 1350 - a four-jugger, as I recall.

     And a 3-jug, 130 grain .32 at 1250 on the right.

    Those were both 20-1 lead-tin at 10 Brinnell Hardness.  Yours are slower, but I'm also thinking they're softer.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,048 Senior Member
    I don’t think their going fast enough to deform worth anything. Even if they are soft. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,772 Senior Member
    edited October 2019 #50
    I like the results 👍
    A mild kicking load for indoor use without too much fear of over penetration which might be a consideration if others are present under the same roof. Mild recoil would also be good for fast follow up shots and a six shooter not a five. It's nothing to look down your nose at.
    Hmm... 128 PF (105 is the PF for 38 in IDPA SSR division) I think I'm liking this load.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,048 Senior Member
    edited October 2019 #51
    I tell you what, as light as the recoil is..........you could send a lot of lead rather fast and accurately. 

    Which is a win in my book for the wife. 

    Gotta get her to the range to practice with them. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,048 Senior Member
    Now to get back to drinking the contents of new jugs.

    Gulp gulp gulp gulp gulp....🍶
    Yeah, cause I gotta test these next. 😎



    Fortunately, my kids drink a lot of milk. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement