Home Main Category Personal Defense

Conceal ability v shoot ability in a cc weapon

Gene LGene L Senior MemberPosts: 11,730 Senior Member
edited October 2019 in Personal Defense #1
Which is more important to you?  I recently wanted to carry a lightweight revolver for CC.  Which I carried for a long time back in the day, a S&W Model 38.  Anyway, for some years I carried a 642 but abandoned it and went automatic.

Now I'm back in the lightweight revolver option for some reason.  I've got a no-hole 442, lightweight that I want to carry.  Problem is the grips as they came from S&W, useless and awful.  I replaced them with Uncle Mike grips.  Helped with the shooting, but not with concealing the weapon...small, but larger than the S&W wooden grips from years back.  Which I had a pair of.

So I replaced the UM grips with wooden grips and a Tyler grip, (which is a modern Tyler, but unmarked at all).  Anyway it is what it is.  It's conceal able, not much fun to shoot.



Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
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Replies

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,026 Senior Member
    For CC, for me it's conceal. I'll worry about the shooting part once I know I can go public with a piece without panicking the neighbors.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    edited October 2019 #3
    I go with shootability. I can conceal a full-size service handgun or revolver, usually. Why handicap myself, I figure.

    Might not work for everyone, but it works for me.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,916 Senior Member
    Concealabilty isn't a huge thing for me...depending on where I am going it's either a 1911 Commander or a Ruger LCR
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,146 Senior Member
    I’ve been carrying concealed so long that I have just built it into my dress and lifestyle.  I’m usually carrying something fullsize and OWB. 
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,972 Senior Member
    edited October 2019 #6
    Why compromise?

    i have both. I carry Glocks. 😁

    The G43 gives me the best of both worlds when I need concealment and shootability. All the way up to the 19/23. 

    I sometimes carry a 340 M&P and in that case, I’m giving up “shootability” for lightweight. But that’s usually just around the house or neighborhood.  
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,730 Senior Member
    edited October 2019 #7
    To tell the truth, I don't know why to compromise.  Don't have a good reason.  I've got a Sig 365 that is small, accurate, got a lot of mag capacity, lightweight, and concealable and in every way superior to a .38 Special. Which I carry (365) a lot of the time.  But, as I said, sometimes, not always, I like to carry a revolver.  Any confrontation with a BG is likely to be brutish,  nasty and short, and while I'm not saying the 442 is superior, I think it's enough to stop a fight in 99% of BG/car jacking/assault confrontations.  In fact, I think a .32 AP will dissuade most assailants. It may not kill them directly, and who wants to do that, but it will/maybe cause them to abandon the assault.  I think we've adopted military stopping studies to civilian standards, which I think is somewhat misplaced. 

    While I believe there's no such thing as "too much gun" in a SD scenario, I also believe there is no argument for "too little enough gun" in most situations.  It takes a drugged-up maniac to walk through a few rounds of CF ammo fired at close range.

    We've been sold a bill of goods based on the Hatcher stats.  Don't dispute their stats on large animals, or killing power, but do we need killing power, or do we need stopping power?  Which I believe can be accomplished with less than Hatcher recorded.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,748 Senior Member
    You mean Major Hatcher of Hatcher's notebook??? If so thats pretty dated stuff.

    Check out Massad Ayoob. Eclectic mix of old and new with detailed discriptions of real events.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,622 Senior Member
    Hornady makes a short barrel load and a light recoil load for the 442, get thee to the range
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 885 Senior Member
    I see see no reason to compromise in most circumstances.
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,249 Senior Member
    A lot of good choices out there now - not sure why compromise is warranted until you start wearing beach or workout clothes.  When you do, still a lot of good choices.

    While I am a huge fan of snub revolvers, I think that concept is an area that requires a little more head scratching.  A lot of .38 hollowpoint loads become deficient in penetration when the barrels get short and the velocities low.  When the velocities increase, so does recoil, and the aluminum, scandium, and polymer framed wheelies become more difficult to shoot.  For the featherweights, ammo selection needs some study that I haven't really done, but I wouldn't say no to the same flat nosed FMJ concept I push for .380's and .32's.  My own leaning is toward a steel framed 5-shot with comfortable .357 load (i.e. Smith 640 and 145gr Silvertips).  
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    I just feel uncomfortable carrying a full size gun.  I carried a 1911 10mm when I was working at the local range and it limited doing things like climbing down in the trap houses and got in the way in the small confines of the skeet houses.  I'd usually unholster it before sliding down in the trap houses.  I carry a shield, either .45 or 9mm both of which I can shoot pretty well out to about 40 yds.  Don't plan on shooting further in SD situation.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,026 Senior Member
    I've gotta agree with Gene here. While we've all read accounts of meth-fueled psychos taking 14 rounds of expanding 9mm continuing their rampage, I've also got to play the odds and figure "not very likely". At 5'7" and 135#'s, I have a hard time concealing any handgun around clothes I want to wear 9 months out of the year. So, I picked a CCW I can carry without regard to wardrobe, and even that took some shopping around.

    I don't care if it doesn't reliably provide one-shot stops. When it gets to that point, the only round count that matters is "How many left until reload?". Can I, a small framed male carry it inconspicuously matters a lot more to me than how big a hole my first shot is going to produce.

    Mike






    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,730 Senior Member
    That guy who was shot and killed in Athens (GA) and which was on tape took body hits with a 9mm and still got up and attacked an officer with a knife, before he took one between the horns.  The Video is posted here, somewhere.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,903 Senior Member
    Living in South Florida wearing a jacket, sweater. Vest or even a heavy shirt is only a few days a year thing. So concealibility is an issue. Wearing shorts t-shirt and flip flops makes it an issue unless you carry a bag or something which I do at the beach.  I have started to carry the Glock 43 with a clip draw IWB. That gun nut dude posting the pic with the trigger cover got me thinking. I rarely tuck a t shirt anyways
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,026 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    That guy who was shot and killed in Athens (GA) and which was on tape took body hits with a 9mm and still got up and attacked an officer with a knife, before he took one between the horns.  The Video is posted here, somewhere.
    "That guy" is the exception to the rule, and if you run across him, it likely won't make much difference what you're packing.

    I'm okay with my thinking and if I'm wrong, it'll be a rare fluke and my bad. That's life.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,730 Senior Member
    Yeah, he was an exception and I don't know where on his body the shots hit.  I doubt I'll ever come across a "suicide by cop" person.

    I'll pack for what is most likely to happen, not for what could be remotely possible.  I saw on Facebook about a SEAL who was shot 17(?) times in a firefight and still managed to make it up to the pickup point.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,748 Senior Member
    I don't worry about if what Im packing is enough gun. I don't own anything so small I can't shoot it.

    Truth is I go unarmed alot of the time. I see the biggest threats to my life being careless, negligent and wreckless motorists.

    Whether Im armed are not, if sudden lethal crisis confronts me. I'll likely be regretting not having a long gun.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,076 Senior Member
    edited October 2019 #19
    First rule of surviving a gunfight: HAVE A GUN

    I'l take my small "pocket rocket" 40 (Kahr PM40) dropped in my pocket vs my LW Commander that I didn't feel like dressing around, 8 days a week 
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,903 Senior Member
    knitepoet said:
    First rule of surviving a gunfight: HAVE A GUN

    I'l take my small "pocket rocket" 40 (Kahr PM40) dropped in my pocket vs my LW Commander that I didn't feel like dressing around, 8 days a week 
    Is the Khars trigger heavy enough to not need a holster of some sort?
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    edited October 2019 #21
    I'm not the 'poet, but I have pocket carried a J Frame Smith. Trigger is heavy. I used a holster not to protect the trigger, but to keep the gun oriented properly. Just a consideration. 
    Overkill is underrated.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,026 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    knitepoet said:
    First rule of surviving a gunfight: HAVE A GUN

    I'l take my small "pocket rocket" 40 (Kahr PM40) dropped in my pocket vs my LW Commander that I didn't feel like dressing around, 8 days a week 
    Is the Khars trigger heavy enough to not need a holster of some sort?
    I've carried a Kahr for years in every imaginable condition and position. When I first bought it, I drug it, unloaded, through every adverse situation I could think of trying to make it go "snap" on an empty chamber. Never happened.

    Holstered or not, chambered or not....the only time this gun will go off is when you want it to. Not to say it's "draggy". It'll go off when you want it to.

    Mike


    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,903 Senior Member
    Thanks Mike
    I kind of figured but meant to ask KP a long time ago
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,026 Senior Member
    When I bought mine, I was in the middle of renovating an 1880's Victorian. I climbed through every rafter in the place, crawled through every place a half-basement allowed,  plumbed stuff that took days of digging....and every time I figured "this'll make it go off"....it didn't.

    I've never worried about it since.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,076 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:

    Is the Khars trigger heavy enough to not need a holster of some sort?
    Linefinder said:
    I've carried a Kahr for years in every imaginable condition and position. When I first bought it, I drug it, unloaded, through every adverse situation I could think of trying to make it go "snap" on an empty chamber. Never happened.

    Holstered or not, chambered or not....the only time this gun will go off is when you want it to. Not to say it's "draggy". It'll go off when you want it to.

    Mike


    I doubt I've tested mine as severely as the finder of lines
    However, I share his confidence of it not going off unless I intend it too.

    I also make it a habit to carry NOTHING else in that pocket

    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 3,962 Senior Member
    With so many good options available, I don't understand why it has to be either or... 😕
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    This issue has been over thought on this forum for at least a decade, and I think it stems from everyone wants the optimal solution.  I think it boils down to comfort and access.  I could carry a lot of things, but I prefer to pocket carry a J frame revolver over anything else, because if I need it, a) it's going to be an up close situation and b) five or six rounds should be enough and c)  more than anything else it is reliable.  If I get into a situation that I need to carry a G22, and a few extra mags, that isn't going to be the everyday thing.
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member


    Gen 3 Glock 19, replaced with a Grey Ghost Precision frame, KKM match barrel, and a Surefire X300U.  If you can carry it, do so.   Compromise as little as possible for the concealment and go for maximum shoot-ability.  If it's to be concealed, make damn sure its hidden and not printing, but beyond that don't compromise. 
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,972 Senior Member
     I comfortably carry a compact .40cal and two spare mags along with 3 knives and an assortment of other daily trinkets 90% of the time. 

    Clearly excessive to some here. But, comforting and practical to me. 

    Life is good. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,972 Senior Member
    edited October 2019 #30
    I've gotta agree with Gene here.

    .............

    I don't care if it doesn't reliably provide one-shot stops. When it gets to that point, the only round count that matters is "How many left until reload?". Can I, a small framed male carry it inconspicuously matters a lot more to me than how big a hole my first shot is going to produce.

    Mike



    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 885 Senior Member
    Zee said:
     I comfortably carry a compact .40cal and two spare mags along with 3 knives and an assortment of other daily trinkets 90% of the time. 

    Clearly excessive to some here. But, comforting and practical to me. 

    Life is good. 
    Your crazy!  Three knives is just excessive. ;)   I only carry two, and two guns, and two spare mags.  Comfort is fine here as well.  
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
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