.17 HMR VS .22WMR

Diver43

I have been contemplating getting a new rifle. Thought for sure I wanted a specific bolt gun in .22mag.  Use would be:  plinking, target, and maybe pest/varmint control.

In checking around, the .17 kept coming up as an alternative.  Any reason I should abandon the .22 and get the .17?  

I have never shot a .17, nut have the .22 mag.  Also have a convertible sing six and it is much more accurate with the .22 mag cylinder

Any suggestions before I pull the proverbial trigger?

Diver43

knitepoet said:

Which one has the cheaper ammo?

The .22 is less expensive, but not by that much.

Spk

Up to about 100 yards, I'd go with the 22 mag for target and varmints. Beyond 150 the 17 hmr starts to look better for target work. How far do you plan on shooting? Both will whack small game at relatively close range.

Diver43

Spk said:

Up to about 100 yards, I'd go with the 22 mag for target and varmints. Beyond 150 the 17 hmr starts to look better for target work. How far do you plan on shooting? Both will whack small game at relatively close range.

Well, when I have the opportunit . I like to stretch things a little. Our old friend CPJ came up with the hit a pop can at 100 yards with a  22lr.  Many said no way, a few of us tried and it was easier than I thought. I know max range will almost always be 150 yards. I am sure I can make a 22mag do it and research says the 17 can easily

JasonMPD

In all regards 17 HMR and it's "bigger" brother 17 WMR ballistically out class all rimfire 22 caliber cartridges.  Cost is similar to 22 WMR and during sales the prices are negligible in difference. 

My Savage 93 in 17 HMR is a 1 MOA rifle at 200 yards with crazy reliable drop data so long as you buy the same ammo. 

I've shot everything from grey squirrels to coyote (50 yards) and it handled it all well.

The 17 cal bore needs a more frequent cleaning schedule though. 

jbp-ohio

JasonMPD said:

The 17 cal bore needs a more frequent cleaning schedule though. 

The .22M has wax coated bullets like the LR.. You can go many many hundreds of rounds without cleaning the bore.......

Weatherby

I have both and like both.
I think the 17 HMR is an inherently more accurate cartridge so may produce smaller groups and more hits.

Diver43

JasonMPD said:

In all regards 17 HMR and it's "bigger" brother 17 WMR ballistically out class all rimfire 22 caliber cartridges.  Cost is similar to 22 WMR and during sales the prices are negligible in difference. 

My Savage 93 in 17 HMR is a 1 MOA rifle at 200 yards with crazy reliable drop data so long as you buy the same ammo. 

I've shot everything from grey squirrels to coyote (50 yards) and it handled it all well.

The 17 cal bore needs a more frequent cleaning schedule though. 

That is the rifle I have been looking at.
Great to know info,  Thank You

Diver43

knitepoet said:

That's something else to keep in mind, the 17 will require all new cleaning hardware.

I had not thought of that, I am unsure if the cleaning rod I have will fit the  17, if not, it's not a huge expense, but not one I thought of.

Diver43

jbp-ohio said:

JasonMPD said:

The 17 cal bore needs a more frequent cleaning schedule though. 

The .22M has wax coated bullets like the LR.. You can go many many hundreds of rounds without cleaning the bore.......

I used to be meticulous about cleaning all guns. Not so much for .22s anymore. 

Diver43

Weatherby said:

I have both and like both.
I think the 17 HMR is an inherently more accurate cartridge so may produce smaller groups and more hits.

Accuracy and small groups are most important.  Now to decide if I want to add another caliber to the ammo stash.
I already have a bunch of .22wmr for the wifes old Marlin and Single Six 

Weatherby

Diver43 said:

Weatherby said:

I have both and like both.
I think the 17 HMR is an inherently more accurate cartridge so may produce smaller groups and more hits.

Accuracy and small groups are most important.  Now to decide if I want to add another caliber to the ammo stash.
I already have a bunch of .22wmr for the wifes old Marlin and Single Six 

Sound like you need two guns to me.......WIN WIN

JKP

JasonMPD said:

In all regards 17 HMR and it's "bigger" brother 17 WMR ballistically out class all rimfire 22 caliber cartridges.  Cost is similar to 22 WMR and during sales the prices are negligible in difference. 

My Savage 93 in 17 HMR is a 1 MOA rifle at 200 yards with crazy reliable drop data so long as you buy the same ammo. 

I've shot everything from grey squirrels to coyote (50 yards) and it handled it all well.

The 17 cal bore needs a more frequent cleaning schedule though. 

What he said. 

Diver43

Weatherby said:

Diver43 said:

Weatherby said:

I have both and like both.
I think the 17 HMR is an inherently more accurate cartridge so may produce smaller groups and more hits.

Accuracy and small groups are most important.  Now to decide if I want to add another caliber to the ammo stash.
I already have a bunch of .22wmr for the wifes old Marlin and Single Six 

Sound like you need two guns to me.......WIN WIN

Weatherby said:

Diver43 said:

Weatherby said:

I have both and like both.
I think the 17 HMR is an inherently more accurate cartridge so may produce smaller groups and more hits.

Accuracy and small groups are most important.  Now to decide if I want to add another caliber to the ammo stash.
I already have a bunch of .22wmr for the wifes old Marlin and Single Six 

Sound like you need two guns to me.......WIN WIN

You Sir are a wise man
However the rat money (gun fund) chest is not full enough for two. 
A decision I must make.  I may be as simple as which one presents itself with the best deal first.

Linefinder

I think I recall when Scootertrash  bought his .204 that it required a whole new set of cleaning gear from the ground up to service it. Not a meager outlay of cash if you go top of the line.

JerryBobco has a .204 Maybe he'll chime in.

Mike

earlyagain

I have two rifles in 22wmr.. After reading all this, I'd get the 17 and needed gear.

If I my pockets were happy enough.

Diver43

Linefinder said:

I think I recall when Scootertrash  bought his .204 that it required a whole new set of cleaning gear from the ground up to service it. Not a meager outlay of cash if you go top of the line.

JerryBobco has a .204 Maybe he'll chime in.

Mike

@Linefinder, I was thinking about Scootertrash just the other day.  He said something in an IM once in reponse to a comment i made about needing a larger caliber.  Something like accuracy and speed beat size when it comes to bullets???  Something like that anyways.

Linefinder

Scooter was all about speed and accuracy over mass and "knockdown" regardless of the target. He finally brought me around to that frame of mind, at least against paper and small game. A 40 grain VMax launched at 3800 fps will usually serve you better than a 55 at 3200.

OTOH, for big game, I'll sacrifice some speed and a "tad" of accuracy for reliable penetration and expansion. We never met in the middle on that. He was "light and super fast" for everything.

Mike

earlyagain

Light and fast work well if the bullet holds together after accurate delivery. It seems to be a successful trend with the monolithic bullets in center-fire rifle cartridges. 

Bullet failure leaves a lasting impression when witnessed and has serious effects on peoples perception. Just as much as remarkable performance. As has seemingly been the case with the all copper missiles.

Makes me wonder if the monolithic bullets will find there way into rimfires???

kansashunter

Diver I have been thinking about a new 22 and was looking at my lgs last night. He told me about a cz that they no longer make but are still out there that you can get 3 different barrels for.  22lr, 22mag and 17. He found at one of his distributors a package 22lr and 17 for $500.  Barrels are a little over $100. I have not owned a cz but have heard great things about them.

Spk

earlyagain said:

...

Makes me wonder if the monolithic bullets will find there way into rimfires???

I believe they already have, except they're all lead -- not copper...

tennmike

Regarding the .17 cal. cleaning equipment, maybe I can help. I have a .17 K Hornet rifle, and I had to buy a dedicated .17 cal. cleaning rod. The .17 cal. brushes/cleaning jags have a smaller thread diameter that will not fit a .22 cal. rod. And for a bolt action .17 a bore guide for the cleaning rod is a BIG plus; those skinnny rods flex a LOT with a tight patch or brush.

The biggest difference between a .17 rimfire mag and the .22 mag accuracy wise is wind. That little .17 is moving faster, but wind is NOT your friend, especially a crosswind. You'll get a good education in reading wind and what it does to accuracy especially past 100 yards. I know they're both centerfire, but the .17 K Hornet is more wind sensitive than the .22 K Hornet I have past 100 yards.  But in dead calm conditions, the .17K is way more accurate at all ranges.

The .17 rimfire ammo seems to have more choices available as to bullets and manufacturers than the .22 WMR, so that could also be a consideration.

Linefinder

@Diver43 An observation on light and fast verses a bit bigger and heavier.....

I forget exactly what Scooter shot in his .204 (I know that's not .17 cal, but it's the closest I have any experience with), but I think it was a 32 grain Sierra Varminter, and I know he launched them at throat-melting speed. OTOH, I was shooting a .223 Rem with 40 grain VMaxes at 3700-3800 fps, which was noticably slower than his stock .204, and way slower than the custom .20 cal he had built.

But at the end of the day over the dogtowns, he considered a 500 yard hit an accomplishment while I was routinely center-punching them at 600 and beyond. And I can tell you from plenty of BR matches against him it wasn't because I was the better shot. In fact, deep down, I think he was a better shot than me. It was simply a ballistic difference, though I can't tell you why.

If the wind was really tough, I'd break out the 6mm Rem with 75 grain VMaxes at 3800 fps and easily double his range.

Maybe the solution is heavy and fast. But, in the real world.....that comes at a price.

Mike

Diver43

Thanks for all the replies

.17HMR

PROS   Faster, More Accurate, Longer Legs

CONS   Ammo more expensive, more equipment needed

.22WMR

PROS  Easier to find ammo, ammo slightly cheaper, Already have lots of ammo, already own cleaning equipment.

CONS  Not as accurate,  shorter legs

Seeing I will rarely be able to shoot beyond 100 yards, the distance means little
Cleaning rod and supplies, is not a big deal once purchased.
I already have what many would call an arsenal of .22mag ammo, for two gins I already have in the caliber and the .17 would be a one gun ammo supply......

Will see which gun shpws up as a deal first and go from there i think  

JasonMPD

When Savage introduced the A17 semiautomatic 17 HMR, they needed slightly higher power ammo to get proper brass expansion in the chamber and reliably cycle the action.  CCI makes the A17 ammo and it comes inna large box, usually in the $47 realm for 200 rounds at Academy Sports.  I switched to it over the normal Hornady offerings. 

Typical 17gr 17 HMR is 2550 fps, the A17 ammo averages about 2650.

Now... if ya want to get into the weeds a bit, the 20gr expanding hollow points are very nice out to 200 yards and buck the wind a tad better.

Spk

Linefinder said:

@Diver43 An observation on light and fast verses a bit bigger and heavier.....

I forget exactly what Scooter shot in his .204 (I know that's not .17 cal, but it's the closest I have any experience with), but I think it was a 32 grain Sierra Varminter, and I know he launched them at throat-melting speed. OTOH, I was shooting a .223 Rem with 40 grain VMaxes at 3700-3800 fps, which was noticably slower than his stock .204, and way slower than the custom .20 cal he had built.

But at the end of the day over the dogtowns, he considered a 500 yard hit an accomplishment while I was routinely center-punching them at 600 and beyond. And I can tell you from plenty of BR matches against him it wasn't because I was the better shot. In fact, deep down, I think he was a better shot than me. It was simply a ballistic difference, though I can't tell you why.

If the wind was really tough, I'd break out the 6mm Rem with 75 grain VMaxes at 3800 fps and easily double his range.

Maybe the solution is heavy and fast. But, in the real world.....that comes at a price.

Mike

The thing that stands out to me is the SD differences. Scotter's .204 with a 32 grain bullet has an SD of (approx. 0.10985). Your .223 with the 40 grainers (approx. 0.11491) and your 6mm with 75 grainers (approx. 0.18145).

I'm guessing the better SD may have translated to better BC's. Just a guess. I think you're right about the ballistic difference.

Linefinder

@Spk.....Yeah, I'm sure the difference in BC can make a substantial difference, but...

At one time I shot 55 grain VMaxes @3250 fps with good results against pdogs. At Scooters urging, I tried 40 grain VMaxes (much lower BC) at 3780 fps. Even in the wind the difference was quite impressive, with the faster 40s outperforming the 55s in every category that matters against pdogs.

All I can figure is 500+ extra fps in launch velocity overcomes even a significant drop in BC.

OTOH, a 75 VMax launched at the same speed leaves a 40 crying in the dirt. 

In my "perfect world" I'd be launching cinder blocks at 6K fps. But, alas, I weigh 140 lbs.

Mike

Spk

Linefinder said:

@Spk...

All I can figure is 500+ extra fps in launch velocity overcomes even a significant drop in BC.

Yup 👍
...

In my "perfect world" I'd be launching cinder blocks at 6K fps. But, alas, I weigh 140 lbs.

Mike

Within those 500 - 600 yards, it would seem the 55 grainers can't make up for the 40's speed advantage out of the gate.

Hmm..... Cinder block at 6k versus pdog😨

That's a YouTube video right there 😂

Linefinder

The only thing you'd see is me getting launched off the bench before you heard the "bang".

Mike

JasonMPD

Regarding cleaning...don't break your balls worrying about rods and patches and jags.  I find the 17 cal cleaning equipment cumbersome in its miniature size.

Copper fouling aside (I don't clean for it, but you could with this method) just squeeze some carbon cleaner down the barrel, give it 5 minutes and then pull a bore snake through it.  Done.  There's damn near no surface area to clean in that little 17 cal bore.

Keep the bore snake in a small plastic jar or bag and keep it off the ground.

Gene L

I wish someone would give me a .17 HMR, or a .22 Mag, or a .17 WMR...I'd love to shoot them, but not enough to spend money on one....that's where I live.  No need for them.  My LGS loves the .17 Hornet, which he praises.  I don't think I have the manual dexterity to load .17 bullets into the tiny throats.  But he loves it, and the rimfires.  A couple of years back in the .22 drought, you could buy the .17s, but I never did.  Got too many rimfires already.