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Meanwhile, in Virginia...

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  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Alph is correct if anyone likes it or not, his nomenclature is biased, but he is correct. States dont have a process in place to level the tyranny of the population centers that was put in place specifically to stop a few areas deciding everything for every part of the country. The population centers still have major sway and they have to be way out of touch with the rest of the country for it to matter, but it has become a more common thing as they have swung commie.

    The 72 county's do have recourse and it has happened before in Virginia. They could petition to join West Virginia, the last group of counties that had a disagreement with the thinking of their elected officials showed them the way.


    That dog don't hunt, and the forming of WV into a state was illegal on its face according to the Constitution, not that the Constitution meant a diddly damn to Lincoln.

    New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

    Article IV, Section 3, Clause 1


      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,615 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    Virginia reps have introduced a bill that terminates the employment of any LEO who refuses to enforce their gun control schemes. Where's the "eating popcorn" emoji? 


    https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?201+ful+HB67&fbclid=IwAR1jtZsPakbr8ciCvpUcGSDW1JWrfDJs4wI84QwKeJzAokxBl4LsF32FLc0

    Well. . .if we wanted fuel for a landmark case that forces SCOTUS to get off their ass and figure out what "shall not be infringed" means, we've probably got it.

    If we wanted a motivator for mobilizing the vote in November, we've probably got that too.

    EEEEESH. . .
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Accipiter said:
    Certified by the state.  Pretty sure the state would be within rights.  It might be fun to see the result.  Or terrifying.  Not boring for sure.
    Certification is a prerequisite to employment. The state can legally terminate certification but that is not how I read this bill. 

    Side note: what will the unions do? I mean cops can do some vile **** and not get fired, but not enforcing the law is a termination offense? I'm guessing this law will be enforced  like any other. The discretion of the DA. Don't enforce a gun law, fired. Don't enforce an immigration law, looking the other way. 

    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,593 Senior Member
    edited December 2019 #35
    tennmike said:



    That dog don't hunt, and the forming of WV into a state was illegal on its face according to the Constitution, not that the Constitution meant a diddly damn to Lincoln.

    New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

    Article IV, Section 3, Clause 1


    It wasnt illegal because once VA voted to seced, they were no longer under the US constitution. You cant have it both ways. Secede from the country and then complain that you are no longer protected by the laws of that country. Virginia as a whole voted 3 times not to seced per the people of the state. The original Virginia was no longer a US state and didnt have to live by the laws, nor did it get the benefit of the laws it once was a part of. It was no longer a part of the US. The Union did help form a govt. that then seceded from VA and became WV.

    The counties can still move, WV has to agree, if the current VA govt changes or the succeeding counties make the case that VA is trampling their rights and not representing the people of those counties to SCOTUS, it is very doable.


    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 379 Member
    All the cops need to do is start enforcing every law starting now as a means of protest.  Immigration, Tresspassing, every minor offense there is and make it known why.  Fill the prisons even more than they are.  Force the states hand.
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 888 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:

    Well. . .if we wanted fuel for a landmark case that forces SCOTUS to get off their ass and figure out what "shall not be infringed" means, we've probably got it.

    If we wanted a motivator for mobilizing the vote in November, we've probably got that too.


    I hate the quote feature

    Anyway I agree.  The Virginia Dems were pretty stupid here.  They may have created a possible rally cry moving into the 2020 election.

    Scotus on the other hand is not where I want to rest my chances. The so called conservatives scare the shnikey out of me if and when the 2nd is legally defined at their level.
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 888 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    Certification is a prerequisite to employment. The state can legally terminate certification but that is not how I read this bill. 


    I did not read the bill.  I was simply responding to Zorba.  I am pretty sure the state can figure out a way to fire a cop, anywhere in the state, if they wish.  It would be my guess that somewhere every cop agrees to uphold the laws of the state before they are hired.  Just a guess.
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • GilaGila Posts: 1,830 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    It seems Virginia Democrats are passing the A-list gun control laws, including UBC's,  red flags, and black rifle bans. In response, 75 counties have declared themselves 2A Sanctuaries. No surprise there. 

    The democrats have ratcheted up the threats, towards the citizens and the sheriff's. 
    One mentioned calling on the National Guard to enforce the laws. 

    This one is getting interesting. 

    Virginia Democratic officials, however, already say local law enforcement supporting these resolutions will face consequences if they do not carry out any law the state Legislature passes.

    “I would hope they either resign in good conscience, because they cannot uphold the law which they are sworn to uphold, or they're prosecuted for failure to fulfill their oath,” Democratic Virginia Rep. Gerry Connolly told the Washington Examiner of local county police who may refuse to enforce future gun control measures. “The law is the law. If that becomes the law, you don't have a choice, not if you're a sworn officer of the law.”

    "Democratic Virginia Rep. Donald McEachin suggested cutting off state funds to counties that do not comply with any gun control measures that pass in Richmond.

    “They certainly risk funding, because if the sheriff's department is not going to enforce the law, they're going to lose money. The counties' attorneys offices are not going to have the money to prosecute because their prosecutions are going to go down,” he said."

    “And ultimately, I'm not the governor, but the governor may have to nationalize the National Guard to enforce the law,” he said. “That's his call, because I don't know how serious these counties are and how severe the violations of law will be. But that's obviously an option he has.”



    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/the-law-is-the-law-virginia-democrats-float-prosecution-national-guard-deployment-if-police-dont-enforce-gun-control
    Time to take this to SCOTUS.  It comes down to this, the ultimate law of the land.

       A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
    No good deed goes unpunished...
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    I had a comment but since I live in an empty part of an empty state I guess it doesn't matter.
    You matter just as much as every individual person. You just dont matter more because you live in an area of low population density. 
    Are you in favor of abolishing the electoral college?
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,511 Senior Member
    The "Nationalize the National Guard" line speaks volumes about the ignorance at work here.

    The National Guard is a state entity...a governor's shotgun as it were. A governor may activate the N.G. to function in the state.

    To Nationalize (Federalize) the N.G. brings them under the direction of the Federal Government..and as a Federal entity, Posse Commitatus comes into play...

    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,160 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    The "Nationalize the National Guard" line speaks volumes about the ignorance at work here.

    The National Guard is a state entity...a governor's shotgun as it were. A governor may activate the N.G. to function in the state.

    To Nationalize (Federalize) the N.G. brings them under the direction of the Federal Government..and as a Federal entity, Posse Commitatus comes into play...


    Yep. This whole thread is based on the quote of a single, very ignorant, state representative. It isn't what the governor said, it isn't someone authorized to speak on behalf of the Democrat majority. Just some idiot spouting his mouth off.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,615 Senior Member
    Maybe there can be a deal reached. Many of the rural counties can become their own state if DC is also granted statehood. Won't change the Senate, DC gets representation, the rural counties get to rule themselves.
    Take this one step further:  If we really ARE talking about the rural counties of Virginia splitting off, joining W. Virginia, or whatever over this, we really ARE at the point of SCOTUS needing to quit kicking the can.

    The fact that the other side is openly talking about mobilizing the National Guard for disarming the previously law-abiding provides us with PLENTY of courtroom talking points.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    The "Nationalize the National Guard" line speaks volumes about the ignorance at work here.

    The National Guard is a state entity...a governor's shotgun as it were. A governor may activate the N.G. to function in the state.

    To Nationalize (Federalize) the N.G. brings them under the direction of the Federal Government..and as a Federal entity, Posse Commitatus comes into play...


    Yep. This whole thread is based on the quote of a single, very ignorant, state representative. It isn't what the governor said, it isn't someone authorized to speak on behalf of the Democrat majority. Just some idiot spouting his mouth off.

    From what I've researched the governor is not on record rejecting the rep's statement. Nor has the VA democrat party commented. The silence speaks volumes. 


    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,160 Senior Member
    edited December 2019 #45
    Remember you said that when national morons like Trump or AOC say something stupid. Quite often, a village will send their idiot to represent them just to get their ass out of town.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Yep, I said that. Now we wait. 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    tennmike said:



    That dog don't hunt, and the forming of WV into a state was illegal on its face according to the Constitution, not that the Constitution meant a diddly damn to Lincoln.

    New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

    Article IV, Section 3, Clause 1


    It wasnt illegal because once VA voted to seced, they were no longer under the US constitution. You cant have it both ways. Secede from the country and then complain that you are no longer protected by the laws of that country. Virginia as a whole voted 3 times not to seced per the people of the state. The original Virginia was no longer a US state and didnt have to live by the laws, nor did it get the benefit of the laws it once was a part of. It was no longer a part of the US. The Union did help form a govt. that then seceded from VA and became WV.

    The counties can still move, WV has to agree, if the current VA govt changes or the succeeding counties make the case that VA is trampling their rights and not representing the people of those counties to SCOTUS, it is very doable.



    The Federal government never recognized the states as having the right to secede from the union. We fought a war over the right of states to secede from the Union; you might have missed that important point.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,511 Senior Member
    Unilateral secession was not illegal at the time of the Civil War...this is why none of the high ranking confederate were tried for treason. Secession was not declared illegal/unconstitutional until 1869.


    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,593 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    tennmike said:




    The Federal government never recognized the states as having the right to secede from the union. We fought a war over the right of states to secede from the Union; you might have missed that important point.
    Doesnt matter. If they have the right to or not, they did.

    You are trying to have it both ways.

    Once VA decided to not be a part of the US, it was no longer covered under the constitution of the US even if the US thought they did not have the right to do it. Same as a person rescinds his citizenship and/or takes up arms against the US. If VA was recognized as having the right to secede or not, WV could break from them without worrying about what the US constitution says. VA chose to not be part of the US in 61, WV broke free of VA and the CSA for that matter in 63. VA later returned to the US.

    How does the US constitution matter to Canada or Mexico's choosing provinces and territories? It doesnt and it doesnt matter if it was CSA either.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    tennmike said:




    The Federal government never recognized the states as having the right to secede from the union. We fought a war over the right of states to secede from the Union; you might have missed that important point.
    Doesnt matter. If they have the right to or not, they did.

    You are trying to have it both ways.

    Once VA decided to not be a part of the US, it was no longer covered under the constitution of the US even if the US thought they did not have the right to do it. Same as a person rescinds his citizenship and/or takes up arms against the US. If VA was recognized as having the right to secede or not, WV could break from them without worrying about what the US constitution says. VA chose to not be part of the US in 61, WV broke free of VA and the CSA for that matter in 63. VA later returned to the US.

    How does the US constitution matter to Canada or Mexico's choosing provinces and territories? It doesnt and it doesnt matter if it was CSA either.

    I'm right and you know it. The seceding states were not recognized by the Feds as having that right, and the Feds fought for 4 years to make that point. Took hundreds of thousands of deaths, scorched earth policy by sherman and other fed generals, rapes and murders of Southern women, children, and random old people, and the theft of everything not nailed down or buried to make that point, but the point was made. WV was made from an existing state, and that was illegal until the late unpleasantness was decided one way or the other. You argue the plain language of the Constitution like a democrat. Twist it to support your point of view. I find that disturbing. :D
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,160 Senior Member
    I tripped across this a few minutes ago. There is obvious anti-gun bias in this piece, but it adds to the conversation...


    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,280 Senior Member
    I tripped across this a few minutes ago. There is obvious anti-gun bias in this piece, but it adds to the conversation...


    Interesting article, as was the link on the bottom of the page "I am hooking up with my ex-nephew" ;)
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,453 Senior Member
    What a crock of shull bit. Exactly backwards.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    edited December 2019 #54
    From the "article" - 

    "The two approaches are classic cases of false equivalency. Jurisdictions that proclaim themselves sanctuaries for immigrants do not seek to violate the law; they simply refuse to engage local law enforcement in supporting actions that are federal responsibilities. They do not block the law, but simply insist that it should be enforced by those who have the responsibility to do so. For some proponents of so-called gun sanctuaries, however, the goal is to prevent enforcement of state law that the jurisdiction (not a court) deems unconstitutional."


    Ok, based on this argument, the States can "simply refuse to engage local law enforcement in supporting actions that are federal responsibilities." 

    Does this apply to all Federal laws? Only the Feds should/can enforce them? 

    If a Sanctuary state/county/city decided to refuse to engage the 1934 NFA or 1968 GCA? Methinks Slate's tune would be quite different. 

    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    I tripped across this a few minutes ago. There is obvious anti-gun bias in this piece, but it adds to the conversation...


    Interesting article, as was the link on the bottom of the page "I am hooking up with my ex-nephew" ;)
    I'm not sure why this women needs help...Her dad sounds perfect. 




    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member


    The tally is now 87 counties out of 95, including some traditional democrat counties. It definitely is a rural vs urban culture division. 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,574 Senior Member
    Talk about going against the people
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,453 Senior Member
    California has been doing it for decades.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 379 Member
    edited December 2019 #59
    So apparently the VA gov asked for a million dollar increase in the prison budget in anticipation of coming difficulties with the citizens.



    Also a good video on military arms channel
  • GilaGila Posts: 1,830 Senior Member
    I'm curious to learn who will enforce this nonsense, and how it will be done.
    No good deed goes unpunished...
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 379 Member
    I've read there are 2100 state troopers in VA.  Obviously many of the local cops won't be helping so he either calls up the national guard or his troopers are going to be several outnumbered.  If he calls up the guard, trump can step in.
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