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Meanwhile, in Virginia...

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  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,168 Senior Member
    Amazing how these tyrants are determined to shove this nonsense up their citizen's posteriors. Worse than California - although I'm sure they'll follow suit if this works...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,492 Senior Member
    edited December 2019 #63
    BamaakII said:
    So apparently the VA gov asked for a million dollar increase in the prison budget in anticipation of coming difficulties with the citizens.
    Let's ponder this for a moment. . .

    You're trying to increase funding for your prison system to incarcerate your gun-owning public.

    #1.  About 90 of your 95 counties are having none of it, and won't be arresting anyone to put in your prison system.

    #2. Where is the tax revenue to fund your prison system coming from?  The five or so counties that are on your side?

    In this context, it looks like they might need to start a bond drive to fund their invasion of what might as well be considered a foreign nation.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,188 Senior Member
    If the governor had any sense, he would hire Beto to head up the confiscation program.  After all, he knows how to do it.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    If the governor had any sense, he would hire LA and NYC cops to head up the confiscation program.  After all, they know how to do it.


    FIFY. 

    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,188 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    If the governor had any sense, he would hire Beto to head up the confiscation program.  After all, he knows how to do it.


    FIFY. 

    Fixed it back the way I meant it.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 333 Member
     Oathkeepers put out a letter saying they are coming with trainers to help the militias.  Calling for calm at the Jan. 20 Talley but preparing just the same.  Going to try and have other counties form "official" militias and if they don't want to, they will train a reserve Corp.  Looking for volunteers, ex military, le, swat members and of course looking for donations.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,616 Senior Member
    I love how the NYT lumps the militias, white supremacist and neo-nazis all together
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/virginia-capital-on-edge-as-fbi-arrests-suspected-neo-nazis-before-gun-rally/ar-BBZ1xzx

    and keeps mentioning a race war.

    Funny, from what I've seen, the militias are made up of a wide variety of people, who all seem to think the second amendment actually means what it says, and not what some governor thinks it means.

    But I guess that's not as news worthy as playing the race card and making everyone who believes in the constitution out to be a racist
     
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,168 Senior Member
    Wow.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,877 Senior Member
    edited January 2020 #73
    All of this to say, Monday is going to be a MASSIVE clusterfudge. Richmond is likely to make Charlottesville look like a sunday picnic. A lot of this crap is hurting the 2a cause more than helping it. I think the governor was absolutely correct to ban weapons at these events. It seems a lot of people planning to attend this "rally" are hoping to spark civil war 2, but those people are flipping idiots. 
    I think what you want to say is that the governor was wrong for taking actions that would incite these events, no?

    What makes you edit out the possibility that he just MIGHT want every fringe idiot to show up so he can shore up his agenda?
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,188 Senior Member
    And I think that Alpha just likes to stir stuff.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,616 Senior Member
    And I think that Alpha just likes to stir stuff.

    Yep, like he glossed over the fact I mentioned them lumping them all together, NOT that  a few of them ARE illegal.
    But then, what's a little thing like facts to alpha, especially if they get in the way of his "feels"
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,877 Senior Member
    And I think that Alpha just likes to stir stuff.
    Yes but I also think his perspective is personally genuine.  Those two things are not mutually exclusive.  I think he enjoys bringing some of his "enlightenment" to this group of elitist, curmudgeons and seeing what develops.  As a bonus we are probably an entertainment topic of conversation when he gets together with equally enlightened progressive souls at the local coffee shop.

    He is a very smart young man, just wired totally different from most of us and his perspective on the world is taken from an angle most of us can't even put ourselves into.  The reasons for all this could take an encyclopedia to study and document and every point is as debatable and contentious as the existence of a deity for many.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,877 Senior Member
    And I think that Alpha just likes to stir stuff.
    In this case I'm very much in favor of nothing getting stirred. If this were a huge rally of "reasonable people against unreasonable gun control" I'd be 100% in support and would be there with bells on. 

    However every incel keyboard commando in a 1000 mile radius is planning to descend on Richmond intent on inciting Civil War #2. I'm not at all in support of that. 

    To be clear, I'm NOT at all ok with any of proposed gun control laws that the governor of my state has proposed. If they are passed I will strongly consider relocating from the state in the near future. I just think that reasonable people have lost control and the loonies are running the asylum on this one and nothing good for our side can come of it. 
    Agree with what you said.  Unfurtunately it’s the guy in the big house making all the natives restless.  Loonie #1 is now Governor of the state.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GilaGila Posts: 1,828 Senior Member
    If I were a Virginian I'd be looking for a recall of the governor.
    No good deed goes unpunished...
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Trump stepped into the fray via Twitter. 

    Your 2nd Amendment is under very serious attack in the Great Commonwealth of Virginia. That’s what happens when you vote for Democrats, they will take your guns away. Republicans will win Virginia in 2020. Thank you Dems!


    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/478885-trump-warns-of-attack-on-2nd-amendment-ahead-of-virginia-gun-rights
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,249 Senior Member
    The real question is how many voters nationally will feel alienated by the anti gun politics of the Democratic party.

    Im guessing that the question is a forgone conclusion for residents of Virginia, but it does remain unresolved.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,168 Senior Member
    edited January 2020 #81
    I had the same conversation on a different gun forum that was essentially asking the question "Why are we failing?". They did NOT "get it". They would rather argue semantics and religion than to unite against the real enemy - and ban those who disagree. That forum is NOT welcoming to anybody who isn't white, Christian, Republican, and preferably rural.
    This forum (G&A) is VASTLY better in that regard! Which is why I hang here.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,249 Senior Member
    If we really are only 30% we've already lost.
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 333 Member
    GunNut said:
    All of this to say, Monday is going to be a MASSIVE clusterfudge. Richmond is likely to make Charlottesville look like a sunday picnic. A lot of this crap is hurting the 2a cause more than helping it. I think the governor was absolutely correct to ban weapons at these events. It seems a lot of people planning to attend this "rally" are hoping to spark civil war 2, but those people are flipping idiots. 
    I think what you want to say is that the governor was wrong for taking actions that would incite these events, no?

    What makes you edit out the possibility that he just MIGHT want every fringe idiot to show up so he can shore up his agenda?
    Certainly a possibility. There's a strong possibility that Monday's events give ammunition to his arguments that we need to get assault rifles out of the hands of fringe lunatics. Especially given the reasonably high probability of clashes between right wing and left wing morons at this event. All we would need to effectively lose the high ground forever on the 2A is for some right wing incel moron masquerading as a 2a supporter to take a shot at some left wing incel moron trying to instigate some crap. It still could happen and if it does we're absolutely screwed. 

    Why does it have to be someone from the right wing starting trouble?  ANTIFA is going to be there and there is always trouble when they show up.


  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 333 Member
    edited January 2020 #84
    Well gun sales were at record levels during Obama years and while they have slacked off during trump, they still exceed pre Obama.  Every time some nut shoots up a school with an AR, they shoot back up.  Somebody's buying them as well as all the ammo being made.  Not just repeat buyers.  Last estimate was over 400 million guns in this country.  If it 30% that's 4 each.  I think a lot of people only own 1 or 2 which would make it more than 30%  I'm doing my part.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Much of this is government induced. My friends and family in California have stopped buying hunting licenses because of CA regulations. The state has all but banned small game hunting by banning lead. Hunters are viewed with disdain, especially by F&G wardens. Why endure the hassle? 

    The 30% stat is unverifiable. Just a number thrown out to encourage more gun ownership or used by anti-gunners to say "Hey look, they are declining into a minority so the 2A is no longer relevant." 

    We all know how minorities are treated politically. 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,249 Senior Member
    Freedom, privacy, and those rights symbolic of liberty don't seem to be percieved and valued in a way that's consistent across the broad variety of the population. As pointed out earlier.

    It seems an effort maybe wasted, but if such values aren't presented to the general public in the light of imperative importance for them, and beyond reach of being painted to look like fanatical special interest. Infringement will be inevitable. 

    The power of public perception evades public guidance like feathers in a hurricane.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,616 Senior Member
    Considering the numbers of people congregated in urban areas, the 30% of the population MIGHT be close to accurate.  

    Isn't the population of JUST the greater LA area larger than close to half the other states??

    Once you get outside of those densely packed population centers (NYC, LA, Chicago, etc.) I bet the number is quite a bit different
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • kansashunterkansashunter Senior Member Posts: 1,872 Senior Member
    I read an article not long ago, not sure where, but it claimed that the fastest growing sector of ccl were women of color. In my little corner of the world I see many women in my lgs and a number of minorities. Hunting will continue to drop for many reasons but shooting is not declining. I also always wonder where they come up with how many guns are owned.
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 333 Member
    I know its a small percentage overall but every major match In the SE as well as other parts of the country are growing substantially.  Many could allow double the entrants and still fill up.  The numbers of pre teens and teens competing is huge and women young and old are competing.USPSA has grown like 30 % in the last few years.  You have to sign up for matches months in advance to get in.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,515 Senior Member
    The real question is how many voters nationally will feel alienated by the anti gun politics of the Democratic party.

    Im guessing that the question is a forgone conclusion for residents of Virginia, but it does remain unresolved.


    Gun culture does this by becoming more inclusive and bringing in people from all walks of life. We need black, gay trans people toting guns and wearing rainbow skirts filling up our ranges. We need lesbian vegans concealed carrying glocks. We need muslim women firing ARs while wearing a hijab. We need hasidic Jews busting clays. We need hipsters hunting. 

    As long as gun culture is viewed exclusively as white men driving pickup trucks, wearing camo, we lose.

    This quote feature still sux

    If you are seeing this in your area, then you are the problem. If you are making it up, then I cant help.
    Shooters are the most inclusive group, most helpful group, that I have ever been a part of. If you and your range is not inclusive, thats on you.
    There are a ton of women and black (and other hues) of HP shooters. There is even one that drives a Prius at most of the matches I attend.
    On a personal note, some guys from the MCL have done self defense/awareness sessions with women, and had them bring their firearms. Most needed cleaned. If that isnt happening where you are, its on you.
    Our token homosexual at work has a revolver he hasnt shot, NOT because none of us rednecks have not offered to take him to the range. If that doesnt happen in your work place, its on you. Not conservative gun owners in camo.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,877 Senior Member
    Gun ownership is a highly emotional thing to the folks that are true believers.  In Canada, one of the most restrictive environments for gun owners, the percentage of civil disobedience to their gun laws is ridiculously high.  Canadians by nature are pacifists and liberals due to their looooooooooong relationship with European culture.  Most Americans are not.  

    I believe civil disobedience will be the first response to restrictive new laws, BUT I do believe at some point more drastic reactions will occur.  I believe some fringe folks out there will believe the book Unintended Consequences is a good game plan to follow.  I don’t want to be around when that happens, but I believe that happen it will.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

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