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Meanwhile, in Virginia...

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  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,662 Senior Member
    ...but the truly "rural" places that we most associate with high rates of gun ownership make up a vanishingly small portion of the population at 14% and shrinking.
    And what's the point? The city slickers need to stay in their cities and mind their own business the way I see it.

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Back to the point of whether gun owners have a minority or majority of the population... I honestly would not be surprised to find that the number of gun owners - not gun people, or 2A supporters, just owners - is significantly less than 30%.  The figure I've seen is 80 million owners... but, even if you factor a 25% higher figure and assume it's actually 100 million, you're still less than one third of the country's population.  You'd literally have to double our numbers - AND magically cause all those owners to care about gun rights - before we could even begin to think about majority status.  That ship has sailed, folks.  Alf is exactly correct to point out that WE are the minority.  Those of us who hold our rights dear are an even smaller minority.  On this, he and I agree; we cannot afford to exclude anybody who is willing to side with us.  
    Only about 200 million Americans are over 21 and of those about 30 million are felons and can not legally own guns.  

    That leaves about 180 million elegible Americans.  That’s over 50% gun owners which is closer to my personal experience.

    Of course only a small percentage of those will raise a finger to protect that freedom.  But we should not forget that ALL the ones that would are armed...
    Wambli, you've lived in a lot of places and worked with a broad section of people. Remember the fact that more people live in NYC than the entire state where you currently live and that state is full of some rapidly gentrifying/liberalizing cities. Spent any time in the triangle lately? Yes there are people like me in many of those places and even some people like you, but the truly "rural" places that we most associate with high rates of gun ownership make up a vanishingly small portion of the population at 14% and shrinking.
    I have, and I have worked in these population centers for years.  You'd be shocked how many times I mentioned I owned guns (shockingly a popular topic of mine) and just about everyone in the room would say they did too, even some of the most liberals in the bunch.   Repeat that in Chicago, LA and just about every other city I frequent for business.  In Miami it's easier to figure out who doesn't.

    Just had the pleasure of spending an evening with a good sized group of the "gentrified" Millennials you refer to that are now filling up our nearest Urban center.  Yep, they all own firearms.  Actually I've personally trained 2 of them.  This gentrification you attest to has little to do with gun ownership.  Young people in general are truly (and shockingly sometimes) open minded and rather logical in this particular topic, though not necessarily vocal.

    As an example, I worked in New York City for many years.  The most common thing was for folks that commuted in (a vast number and most of the folks I worked with) had guns and many had carry permits, but because of NYC gun laws they would have to leave guns at home (basically urban NY but not NYC proper, bedroom communities all over the Hudson River Valley and NJ, YES NJ!!!  So again my experience is that more than 1/2 the folks I meet, EVEN in the big cities, own guns.  Most won't talk about it even when it's a conversation topic.  Actually the better their economic circumstances the larger the percentage of ownership.  Just about EVERY executive VP or above I know is a gun owner.

    Crazily enough, in a recent meeting in Mexico City, a place where the perception is that it's nearly impossible to own guns, I decided to ask and just about EVERYONE in the room owns guns and had a good laugh when I mentioned that the American perception is that it's difficult to own guns in their country.  The consensus was, SURE, if you're poor.

    And THAT is where we are headed as a country...
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    You know why the numbers are very low and or highly suspect?  Every time I've had to answer that question to a stranger (poll or such) the answer is Guns? Nope...
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,750 Senior Member
    Same here. I usually answer NO, but I respect your right to own them if you desire.  Get left alone after that
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    Wambli, I genuinely hope you're right. I do think there is a potentially powerful political angle here in terms of the 2A in terms of protecting the rights of miniorities. Also the equity issue is also potentially a strong one. Laws that make it harder/more expensive for poorer people to own guns are bad. Liberals are especially susceptible to these sorts of arguments. They can't be seen as trampling the rights of the poor or minorities. If we can make gun control look that way, it will go way further than the types of alarmist rhetoric we normally see from the NRA and others supposedly tasked with protecting our rights, but who's real purpose lately seems more focused into scaring the true believers in to buying more guns.  
    I agree on all points.
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 408 Member
    I need a plumber last week.  Probably the largest company in town and they sent me a text saying " garret was on his way.  Garrett is an avid gun collector "and so on.  I got a kick out of a corporation advertising this.  Asked the guy if he ever gets any feedback about it given the current climate and he says no, usually people just want to talk about guns and show he theirs.  One lady raised concerns but told him as long as you don't own any of those AR15s.  He said h e owned 3 and went about his business.  Pretty sure my neck of the woods is safe for now.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,626 Senior Member
    I'm not the world traveler that some are, and, (unsurprisingly) my experience has been vastly different... however, the reason for that is just as likely to be geographical as anything else.  There are lots of hunters close by, but this area is a democratic stronghold in every other sense... including gun ownership.   LOTS of Fudds.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,662 Senior Member
    Good.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 889 Senior Member
    Maybe rural people have a voice after all.  
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Those red flag laws have something missing; the hammer and sickle on the red flag. Just pointing out the obvious.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,795 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    Those red flag laws have something missing; the hammer and sickle on the red flag. Just pointing out the obvious.
    Innocent until proven guilty?
    Due process?
    No seizure of property without compensation?

    Why would we need THOSE silly things?
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 889 Senior Member
    As a President once said

    "I like taking guns away early.  Take the guns first, go through due process second."
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    C'mom, Accipiter...those are only words. He didn't mean any of it. 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 889 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    C'mom, Accipiter...those are only words. He didn't mean any of it. 
    He meant it until his advisors reminded him he ran as a conservative republican, and not a liberal democrat.  Then of course he meant the opposite.  When you have switched sides as many times as he has, it is understandable to be confused once in awhile.
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • North ForestNorth Forest Member Posts: 358 Member
    GunNut said:
    To be clear I fully support cosplay of all types. Sailor Moon, Iron Man or Operator. I love playing dress up!
    It's not playing dress-up if you actually know how to use the stuff.

    Woke up this morning with my first cup of coffee and out of the blue recalled this portion of the discussion. I can relate to both sides of the "story". On the one side all the wanna-be guys, on the other - guys that know how to use the gear and for what purpose. I have a complete set of gear ( in the old Woodland camo, it works well here in the woods where I live). Do I parade around in it? Nope. Do I know how to use it? Yep. Am I glad I have it? Damn right.

    And then, I remembered this............



  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,795 Senior Member
    I have a complete set of gear ( in the old Woodland camo, it works well here in the woods where I live). Do I parade around in it? Nope. Do I know how to use it? Yep. Am I glad I have it? Damn right. 

    And then, I remembered this............



    Hee!  Is The Tick original comic from the mid-'80's too obscure?


    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
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