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Racist souvenirs

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  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    Jayhawker said:
    People need to get better at telling the propigators of this nonsense to go pound sand...

    I can't do that on most sites. Between the auto censors and getting banned, it's a hard row to hoe.
    Anyway, only 3-5% of Southerners owned even ONE slave, and no one has given me an adequate explanation on why the other 95-97% of Southerners fought given that they didn't have a dog in the slavery fight thing.
    As to  the Confederate battle flag and union jack, many men, and young boys, rallied around that flag, went into battle under that flag, and were killed or maimed for life under it. The KKK marched under the U.S. flag for most of the KKK V1, and V2 period, and only coopted the battle flag for KKK V3 during the last iteration. Does that make the U.S. flag a racist symbol? Same rules should apply; look up the Clan Bake for one reference.
    And if all y'all what don't like the South retire, then retire to California; we don't want ya! :D:D:D 

    Look at my  avatar carefully. That flag might not be what you think. :D


    I know what your avatar is. The 3rd version of the actual flag of The Confederate States of America. #1 had 7 stars. #2 had 9 stars. Your avatar #3 had 11 stars.  #4 had 13 stars as more states seceded and joined. Yes. Very few Confederate soldiers owned slaves. I know my Great, Great Grandfather Tyree who had a small farm near Murfreesboro did not. I doubt he knew anyone who was a slave owner. He was a SGT in the Volunteer Army of Tennessee which was incorporated into the Confederate States Army. He was wounded at Atlanta, GA and recovered enough to die at Franklin, TN. These are his records I got online:  

    Apparently when I 'posted' this first half of my comment it didn't work any better than the second half which I PM'd to tennmike.       

  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member

    I will try one more time!

     Name: Tyree H. Coursey Rank: Sergeant Company: A, 24th Tennessee Infantry CSA Killed at Franklin on 11/30/1864, wounded at Atlanta July, 1864     24th Regiment, Tennessee Infantry Overview: 24th Infantry Regiment was assembled at Camp Trousdale, Sumner County, Tennessee, in August, 1861. Its companies were recruited in the following counties: Rutherford, Williamson, Macon, Sumner, DeKalb, Maury, Coffee, Hickman, and Wilson. After taking part in the conflicts in Shiloh and Perryville, the unit was attached to General Stewart's, Strahl's, and Palmer's Brigade, Army of Tennessee. It was active on many battlefields from Murfreesboro to Atlanta, returned to Tennessee with Hood, and saw action in North Carolina. This regiment took 406 effectives to Shiloh, had 68 disabled at Perryville, and lost twenty-three percent of the 344 at Murfreesboro. It reported 43 casualties at Chickamauga, 45 at Missionary Ridge, and totaled 257 men and 148 arms in December, 1863. Few surrendered in April, 1865. The field officers were Colonels Robert D. Allison, Hugh L.W. Bratton, and John A. Wilson; Lieutenant Colonels Thomas H. Peebles, Samuel E. Shannon, and John J. Williams; and Major William C. Fielding.  Family lore had my Great Grandfather William Jasper at age 14 driving his mother in a wagon to recover Tyree. Actually a neighbor with a wagon volunteered but at age 14 I'm guessing Jasper did his share of driving. Word of mouth family lore can be 100% true, mostly true, or complete fantasy. This one was mostly true. I'm fairly confident Tyree was buried on the farm. In November 2007 I had a 2 week military school at Redstone Arsenal Huntsville, AL. I had some time so I drove up to Murfreesboro to pay respect to Tyree. Of course I had no idea where the farm was but drove around and had lunch. Just being near where he lived was enough for me. I have visited every Southern state (mostly on military assignments) except South Carolina where the Civil War began. Visited many battlegrounds. CSA were not traitors or losers they fought for their way of life and were eventually overwhelmed by the population and industry of the North. Their major customer for cotton, England had planted their own cotton fields in Egypt. The "need" for slaves was going away. I have always enjoyed the South. Maybe because it is in my genes.  

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,306 Senior Member
    Just making sure I understand your post.

    The CSA = Nazi?

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,306 Senior Member
    And for the record......it is illegal in Germany to display any Nazi items. That might hve something to do with the lack of display.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • GilaGila Posts: 1,828 Senior Member
    And for the record......it is illegal in Germany to display any Nazi items. That might hve something to do with the lack of display.

    Mike
    True, but my first FIL does have an original copy of Mein Kampf.  BTW, as a teenager, he hid during the war and avoided conscription.
    No good deed goes unpunished...
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,306 Senior Member
    Owning and displaying are two different things. In Germany you can own a Nazi Panzer tank if you want to. But you can't display it.

    In the USA, you can not only own a CSA cannon but you can fire it off on the 4th of July.

    There is an actual difference.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    Just making sure I understand your post.

    The CSA = Nazi?

    Mike

    Godwin's law...

    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 887 Senior Member
    Yep
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,089 Senior Member
    Hitler and the Nazi ideology were very bad, no question. However, they're not the worst. Granted, its like trying to distinguish degrees of stink among a group of turds, but there are ideologies that are worse, and have killed more people, than the Nazis. Stalin and Mao both come to mind, there are others.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Great OutdoorsGreat Outdoors Member Posts: 323 Member
    You folks that think the war was about slavery need to read your history more in depth- as almost always- it was about money. One of the cries of the American Revolution was taxation without representation, yet there were many other issues that brought about the war.
     Lincolns illegal war almost started many years earlier with the tax of abomination and the secession of the South- which was staved off by President Andrew Jackson's deal to repeal the tax.
     Lincoln even said himself if he could save the union( which was crushing the South with taxes) without freeing a single slave he would.
    Did I say illegal? Yes I did- the right of secession was written into the constitution, and the secession of the southern states was legal. When South Carolina seceded- they did not join a coalition, they were a independent nation with their own flag.
    Slavery was a dying institution in America- without the war it would have died within 20 years, possibly 30, and it's continuation for that time would have caused far less harm to our nation than the war. 
    Yes- slavery was an issue, both the slavery by chains of both blacks and whites, and the slavery of the South through intolerable taxes. The war ended the slavery of people, but perpetuated the slavery of the South for many decades.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    You folks that think the war was about slavery need to read your history more in depth- as almost always- it was about money. One of the cries of the American Revolution was taxation without representation, yet there were many other issues that brought about the war.
    Yea... you may want to re-read the letters of secession that the states wrote when they left the union. It was obviously about slavery. Granted, slaves were considered assets and were a big part of the economy, and therefore it was about money... but they were crystal clear it was about slavery.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Great OutdoorsGreat Outdoors Member Posts: 323 Member
    Don't cherry pick- in the letters of secession slavery was only 1 of the issues- I never said it wasn't, only that it was primarily money as always. Look up the taxation of the South starting with the tax of abomination. That's a pretty strong name for a tax.

    And if Lincoln had been serious about eliminating slavery- why did the emancipation proclamation only free the slaves in the rebelling states? 
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,306 Senior Member
    We can refight this war for another 150 years,. One side won, sort of, and one side lost, sort of. The combined memories of both sides are the only real history of the event.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    Don't cherry pick- in the letters of secession slavery was only 1 of the issues- I never said it wasn't, only that it was primarily money as always. Look up the taxation of the South starting with the tax of abomination. That's a pretty strong name for a tax.

    I completely agree with you that it was about money. Under the subject of money, slave holding interests were at the very top of that list. Everything else below that were minor in comparison.

    And if Lincoln had been serious about eliminating slavery- why did the emancipation proclamation only free the slaves in the rebelling states? 
    I never claimed he was.

    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,111 Senior Member
    Food recipies and Christmas decorations. 

    Not whips, chains, collars, white hoods, jim crow signs, etc., and so forth.

    Maybe these editorial columnists should stop interpreting symbols and focus their talents on political policy that fosters racial oppression???
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,191 Senior Member
    edited December 2019 #47
    Um fairly sure the right to secede was not in the constitution. Happy to be proven wrong. The original text has never been changed (only ammended) so happy be pointed to the specific section of the constitution that allows it. 

    I will agree that like almost all wars they're about money. The elite send the poor and working class to die to protect or expand their wealth.
    As I said earlier...
    secession was not illegal at the start of the civil war...it was not declared unconstitutional until 1869...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    I'm sure there were many perfectly good and decent Germans who lost their lives fighting for their country in WWII too. Very few of the descendants seem to feel compelled to fill their homes with Nazi paraphernalia. 

    It is illegal to publicly display NAZI symbols in Germany.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    The main ports of entry for slaves were in Rhode Island (Providence and Newport) and New York City. Yankee shippers ran the triangle trade; no Southern ships were involved as there weren't any. Wall Street in NYC was the main slave selling venue in NYC. I guess Alpha slept through that in history class.
    The tariffs on foreign goods and machinery made them uneconomical for the South, so the South was forced to by low quality shoddy goods from Northern interests.
    Lincoln sent in Federal troops in Maryland to shut down the legislature to keep them from having a secession vote; the act of a MILITARY DICTATOR at best, and the act of a despot. More history ignored.
    Several states prior to the civil war at one time or another threatened to secede and it was deemed legal; odd in that they were NORTHERN states that threatened to do so.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    Jayhawker said:
    People need to get better at telling the propigators of this nonsense to go pound sand...

    I can't do that on most sites. Between the auto censors and getting banned, it's a hard row to hoe.
    Anyway, only 3-5% of Southerners owned even ONE slave, and no one has given me an adequate explanation on why the other 95-97% of Southerners fought given that they didn't have a dog in the slavery fight thing.
    As to  the Confederate battle flag and union jack, many men, and young boys, rallied around that flag, went into battle under that flag, and were killed or maimed for life under it. The KKK marched under the U.S. flag for most of the KKK V1, and V2 period, and only coopted the battle flag for KKK V3 during the last iteration. Does that make the U.S. flag a racist symbol? Same rules should apply; look up the Clan Bake for one reference.
    And if all y'all what don't like the South retire, then retire to California; we don't want ya! :D:D:D 

    Look at my  avatar carefully. That flag might not be what you think. :D
    3-5% were slave owners, ok.  But 100% of the state governments seceded to keep slavery, so...
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
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